Holy Paladin - where are now the QQ...

[Óin]

So folks - where are you now QQ'ing?

I'm absolutely happy with the new changes, I'm nearly to say: Well done Blizz

Infusion is ok, divine plea is ok, the glyphes makes sense. HS is very nice now etc. etc.

So please - do not start again the whining on the changes (I allready read some "oh now is smells like OP..." Threads

Sometimes I think we are really to OP-Whiners when I read threw the Forums..

Well, just my 2 cents - I would appreciate to hear from other active paladins (holy, prot and ret) if you're now happy

[Whitcher]

I rerolled a warrior, cya in northrend!

[AariKanes]

We weren't QQing. Some are, but the majority of the holy paladin community is tired of being trampled on. Divine Plea was a fifteen second buff, to get 25% of our mana back, that completely destroyed our healing capabilities. That is not cool. They've changed it to be a noticeable but agreeable healing reduction(after all it's on a very short cooldown) and that is why the 'QQ' stopped. We were listened to. IoL is indeed nice but considering a paladins mobility and ease of being completely locked down (from damage and healing) is a big problem for PvP paladins. I'm sure they're working on it. Most of us aren't unreasonable and will shut up when it looks like they're taking our ideas into context. Some people are jackasses, but you have that in every class.

[mrfinch]

I was never unhappy. Changes come and go. Plus I couldn't do a better job than the game/class designers so I wouldn't have a right to say why their change was/is bad

[Raavi]

Holy paladins are NOT fine, every decent pve raider will agree with this.

Not gonna go into details but heres an analysis of the current state of the Holy palas:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...00037&sid=2000

Sure the change to DP is a step in the right direction, but the iol nerf simply destroyed the holy tree, that already were weak...

[NydusTemplar]

Am I happy with the changes?

As a Retribution Paladin, I'd say I'm mostly happy with the changes. I don't believe some of the nerfs were entirely necessary, but I have no data back that, so I'll wait until I do to say anything definite. However, it stinks of 2.0's Crusader Strike.

As for Protection, its come a long way since when I joined up at 1.06, when Righteous Fury was still Seal of Fury. It certainly feels better, is actually functional, and looks like its going to be competative, and I'm happy about that. I don't nearly as much complaining and it really seems to be solid now. Though, I'll not claim to be an expert on the subject these days.

Now, on Holy, I'll say that I don't think it got any worse, if that helps. However, I think it's still missing alot to bring it up to par for PvP and PvE. Again, no expert here, but it seems to me that a couple of things need to change. From both my own experience, and what I've read which generally matches my own experiences, I'd say Divine Plea should be the 11 point talent in Holy, and all auras should be 45 yards by default as most buffs are becoming. Then you can make it a channeled spell for a higher amount of mana to make sure it doesn't become too powerful in PvP but provide something Paladins really need in PvE.

Also I'd say take the HoT from Sheath of Light and toss it onto Light's Grace, and make that talent a flat .5 second casting reduction instead of requiring a cast before hand (unless that .5 second casting speed reduction is ignored for the purposes of spell haste, in which case, the way its designed could actually be more beneifical than most think). I could think of a few things to add to Sheath of Light that would compensate for the loss (flat damage reduction that Art of War used to have, or the effects of Unyielding Faith rolled into it for example).

Now, I will say that watching Holy Paladins in duels running around kiting people and destroying them with 30 yard judgements and casting bomb heals on themselves instantly was a bit much, but I'll be the first to say the game isn't based around duels. On that note, however, I think IoL will be okay with a fair bit of hasting, or should be changed back but given a fairly large internal cooldown. (Like once every 30 seconds. Let's be straight here, Priests don't get any way to instant cast Greater Heal, and Nature's Swiftness is on a 3 minute cooldown.)

Also, I'd suggest making Judgements of the Pure increase the proc chance of Seal of Wisdom by 100% so Holy Paladins could stand at 30 yards and judge every 8-10 seconds for mana to make up for Spirit Regeneration/Water Shield charge consumption. Beacon of Light could probably use to transfer overhealing, but at the bare minimum it should last longer than one minute.

However, I would like to say those Holy Paladins and every other class/spec who are having trouble now, who trolled Protection & Retribution before and after the Burning Crusade, telling them to reroll; I'm not here to pay you back, I'm here to help you like you should've been helping us.

[Mysmere]

this poster is simply asking people to qq and should therefore be shot, right?

[David]

I rerolled a warrior, cya in northrend!

I rerolled Pala

Since i've tanked with a warrior and a druid, i thought it would be nice to add an paladin into my collection, and right now she is 69 and she will be my wotlk main.

well, i've never learned much about the holy tree but i think the new trees were well designed!

[Sulika]

If you believe that the trend towards fights which require both higher mobility and greater aoe healing is going to reverse and wotlk boss fights will move back towards the pre-TBC model of large damage incoming on a single tank that you just stand still and heal then yeah, holy is ok.

If you think the fights will tend to be more mobile, with more aoe damage then holy is not ok.

If you think that an arenas are fun when you get sapped and blinded every fight because your only ways to defend against that are removed, that half the dps classes can now nuke you right through bubble removing your only way to actually defend yourself and that having to constantly run and hide to avoid mana burns reasonably constitutes active participation in arena they yeah, holy is ok.

If you think having no cc defense, severe vulnerability to spell interrupts, a bubble that can be nuked through, zero mobility and hiding from mana burn makes for a weak and boring PvP game then holy is not ok.

If you think having to waste 7 talent points so that you can waste 1 gcd every minute to get a 10% spell haste that is useless because cast time on your spells ends up being limited by the length of the GCD anyway, that 3 talent points to give a 30% chance of a 30% chance to avoid incoming spells is more than RNG gambling and an interesting but situational 2 target healing mechanism constitutes fun new talents then yeah, holy is ok.

If you would prefer that more than 1 of the new talents on the holy tree was actually useful then holy is not ok.

If you think speccing deep ret should give better healing benefits than speccing deep holy they yeah, holy is ok.

If you think speccing deep holy should give better healing benefits than speccing deep ret then holy is not ok.

Holy right now is holding the game back. Someone in the encounter design team at Blizzard must be blue in the face from having all their ideas for boss fights scrapped because it would just make holy useless. High mobility needed? No way, it gimps holy palas. Only aoe damage? No way, it gimps holy palas. No mana regen? No way, it gimps holy palas and so on.

Lastly, as a bonus, if you think needing only two pala buffs in raids now and having better prot and ret trees leaves holy in a good spot for getting a raid spot then holy is ok.

If not ...


That enough QQ for now?

[Deleted]

If you believe that the trend towards fights which require both higher mobility and greater aoe healing is going to reverse and wotlk boss fights will move back towards the pre-TBC model of large damage incoming on a single tank that you just stand still and heal then yeah, holy is ok.

If you think the fights will tend to be more mobile, with more aoe damage then holy is not ok.

If you think that an arenas are fun when you get sapped and blinded every fight because your only ways to defend against that are removed, that half the dps classes can now nuke you right through bubble removing your only way to actually defend yourself and that having to constantly run and hide to avoid mana burns reasonably constitutes active participation in arena they yeah, holy is ok.

If you think having no cc defense, severe vulnerability to spell interrupts, a bubble that can be nuked through, zero mobility and hiding from mana burn makes for a weak and boring PvP game then holy is not ok.

If you think having to waste 7 talent points so that you can waste 1 gcd every minute to get a 10% spell haste that is useless because cast time on your spells ends up being limited by the length of the GCD anyway, that 3 talent points to give a 30% chance of a 30% chance to avoid incoming spells is more than RNG gambling and an interesting but situational 2 target healing mechanism constitutes fun new talents then yeah, holy is ok.

If you would prefer that more than 1 of the new talents on the holy tree was actually useful then holy is not ok.

If you think speccing deep ret should give better healing benefits than speccing deep holy they yeah, holy is ok.

If you think speccing deep holy should give better healing benefits than speccing deep ret then holy is not ok.

Holy right now is holding the game back. Someone in the encounter design team at Blizzard must be blue in the face from having all their ideas for boss fights scrapped because it would just make holy useless. High mobility needed? No way, it gimps holy palas. Only aoe damage? No way, it gimps holy palas. No mana regen? No way, it gimps holy palas and so on.

Lastly, as a bonus, if you think needing only two pala buffs in raids now and having better prot and ret trees leaves holy in a good spot for getting a raid spot then holy is ok.

If not ...


That enough QQ for now?

<3

100% agree! Anyone saying they are "Happy" with the holy changes before they have even tested it in the end game raids needs to wait til they have had the joy of doing so.

[Rafy]

if u play on beta, you will know that:
1. you run out of mana like stupid
2. there is so much aoe damage and so many mobility fights, that you just simply cannot heal it...

[Deleted]

I have no idea if we can actually heal everywhere (like we are suppose to according to Blizzard). I think holy looks nice and all, but unfortunately it is kinda boring being holy pala.

The playstyle has not changed for a long time you still just stand there and heal. HS is not really enough to change that. Also, our dps is kinda low imo, so I can't solo very well.

So ret for me. That is fun, and even if we get nerfed, which will probably happen, I will still play ret.

[Deleted]

So folks - where are you now QQ'ing?

I'm absolutely happy with the new changes, I'm nearly to say: Well done Blizz

Infusion is ok, divine plea is ok, the glyphes makes sense. HS is very nice now etc. etc.

So please - do not start again the whining on the changes (I allready read some "oh now is smells like OP..." Threads

Sometimes I think we are really to OP-Whiners when I read threw the Forums..

Well, just my 2 cents - I would appreciate to hear from other active paladins (holy, prot and ret) if you're now happy

I haven't been complaining about our capabilities in pve situations. No, we don't have aoe heals, but we didn't have those ever before either and I've managed just fine anyway. What I whine about is our lackluster performance in pvp! Take a look at all the other healing classes/specs: they can dish out several times more damage than us, their attacks are ranged attacks whereas ours are melee range, they've got several kinds of CC available to them..want me to continue? So no, I am still not happy. My main is a holy paladin but having to do pve all the time gets REALLY boring pretty soon.

[Majokin]

the current state is a wlak in the right direction, but it's not the "happy" goal yet.
one question i asked over years: why is a talent like Grace of light and now Infusion of light worse with more haste / better gear? with some decent gear and haste you dont get 0,5sek faster HLs and 1sek faster HLs, but only 0,4s and 0,8s.
i have testet with my hastegear on PTR and i must say i run out of mana coz now downranking is NOT possible!

another idea: HS is not effected by MSeffects^^

[PalliesThrowStuff]

the current state is a wlak in the right direction, but it's not the "happy" goal yet.
one question i asked over years: why is a talent like Grace of light and now Infusion of light worse with more haste / better gear? with some decent gear and haste you dont get 0,5sek faster HLs and 1sek faster HLs, but only 0,4s and 0,8s.
i have testet with my hastegear on PTR and i must say i run out of mana coz now downranking is NOT possible!

another idea: HS is not effected by MSeffects^^

Agree completely.

I think Grace and Infusion together should still be an instant HL.

I also think JotP should make JoL into an instant AoE heal, so it's not such a "wasted GCD", rather than the haste.

Together, those solve most of Holy's mobility problems, because your mainstay PvP heals will be JoL and Holy Shock, with a chance of instant Holy Lights so long as you're keeping them cast every once in a while.

[Sephirote]

Holy paladins are NOT fine, every decent pve raider will agree with this.

Not gonna go into details but heres an analysis of the current state of the Holy palas:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...00037&sid=2000

Sure the change to DP is a step in the right direction, but the iol nerf simply destroyed the holy tree, that already were weak...

WoW !!!!!!! Tree tumb up for that link , honestly yeah the holy pally is a broken class and no it's not about QQing! it's about fact!!!!

[Offhand]

Lastly, as a bonus, if you think needing only two pala buffs in raids now and having better prot and ret trees leaves holy in a good spot for getting a raid spot then holy is ok.

If you think not having other paladins go to a raid in Wrath then you're in for a bit of a culture shock.

Please roll ret like all the other scrubs.

[Sephirote]

I you think not having other paladins go to a raid in Wrath then you're in for a bit of a culture shock.

Please roll ret like all the other scrubs.

Mmmmmmmmmm... Exactly why Blizzard need to fix the holy pally , do u really want that all pally being ret?? well they should remove then the holy pally and make 2 tree to DPS and one to tank, so the pally will do better DPS cause actually that's why ret still the last dps in Wrath '' they are not considered as mains dps spec''

[Offhand]

Mmmmmmmmmm... Exactly why Blizzard need to fix the holy pally , do u really want that all pally being ret?? well they should remove then the holy pally and make 2 tree to DPS and one to tank, so the pally will do better DPS cause actually that's why ret still the last dps in Wrath '' they are not considered as mains dps spec''

Not at all. Giving up and going dps is usually what newbs that can't cut it in a raid do. More rets is only a good thing for me. Easier to chain-run heroics when no one else can tank or heal.

[Geboran]

It's a crying shame that a Holy Paladin has to pick up particular -GLYPHS- in order to become "tolerably" viable in certain aspects of the game.

Reduce the cooldown on Hand of Sacrifice would help somewhat.

A Holy Paladin is "tolerable" at best right now, but who can say for certainty how long it will last in WoTLK?

If a Holy Paladin can't compete on a fairly equal footing with "Resto" or "Holy" anything, they are "not OK", nor will they be until they can.