WoTLK Shadow Priest Evaluation

[Freyros]

First off Dispersion:
(...)
-For PvE it's being looked at too narrow minded. Right now due to VT changes on trash we're slacking in damage and mana regen. So every 3 min(not a long wait) you can regen 1/3 of your mana WHILE moving from mob to mob. Also on boss fights you can go all out and nearly oom, refresh VT, pop fiend, and pop disp and in 6 seconds you are full mana. That's HUGE!

Sorry, mate, you don't know what you're talking about if you think that Dispersion as it is right now is something good for PvE. My Shadowfiend regens more mana than 36%, it doesn't auto-silence me for 6 seconds, and even does dmg on his own, so some spriests actually use him to add a little to their DPS. It's a much better spell for mana regen and it's a spell you get from your trainer, not the final tier of the shadow tree.

You won't loose alot of dps (if any) on using Dispersion. And it's so much better than Evocation since it allows you to move and reduces your damage massively, and pushback won't give lesser mana from it.

Sunwell is extreme and it's safe to assume that the first raids in WotLK won't be as hard. Now go and give me the examples of not losing any DPS in BT and MH while using Dispersion. All fights, please.

Symbol of Hope got renamed Hymn of Hope and got spread out among all Priests.

You forgot to add that it's now a channeled spell and that it moved to the Holy tree, so it's obviously no longer viable for shadowpriests.

[joyu]

^
l
l

Devouring Plague got nerfed to 15% health from damage made and all Priests gets it.
Symbol of Hope got renamed Hymn of Hope and got spread out among all Priests.
Desperate Prayer became a Tier 3 Holy Talent.

Source: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/6/99570...l-changes.html

To clarify: Shadow Guard and Hex of Weakness are going to be REMOVED.

devouring plague is another dot and is more useful since the lower cost and cd(and counts as shadow dmg so add a 25% heal for sps)
hymn of hope is crap, something like evocation that removes shadowform and only restores 8% mana(about the cost of use shadowform again)
desperate prayer is a panic button for pvp, since you would be dead if a boss hits you

maybe the mortal strike effect of hex would be cool but other racials arent useful

[Ntrails]

Sorry, mate, you don't know what you're talking about if you think that Dispersion as it is right now is something good for PvE. My Shadowfiend regens more mana than 36%, it doesn't auto-silence me for 6 seconds, and even does dmg on his own, so some spriests actually use him to add a little to their DPS. It's a much better spell for mana regen and it's a spell you get from your trainer, not the final tier of the shadow tree.

And when your SF is on cooldown and you're about to be oom? You think that won't happen?

How about when there is a phase change/immunity/massive movement/large AoE where you could not effectively DPS but reducing your incoming damage and regenning mana will be a great bonus...

You are simply not thinking properly about the way boss fights often work. First Boss of karazhan, attuman, when he does his 'mount up' there is easily 6 seconds where you could have dispersed to regen mana. From there more and more examples are available - simply look above.

[syanid]

Sorry, mate, you don't know what you're talking about if you think that Dispersion as it is right now is something good for PvE. My Shadowfiend regens more mana than 36%, it doesn't auto-silence me for 6 seconds, and even does dmg on his own, so some spriests actually use him to add a little to their DPS. It's a much better spell for mana regen and it's a spell you get from your trainer, not the final tier of the shadow tree.

Sunwell is extreme and it's safe to assume that the first raids in WotLK won't be as hard. Now go and give me the examples of not losing any DPS in BT and MH while using Dispersion. All fights, please.

I don't know what you're hyped about, but being silenced for 6 seconds while you have 3 dots on your target won't lose you dps that will make the raid fail at encounter. I mean, out of 6 - 10 minute fights, being silenced for 6 seconds every 3 min is NOTHING. And shadowfiend and using it for DPS comment just made me laugh. Fiend will pull off what, 6 hits, each for 400 or so.

Mana regen will be an issue in WoTLK and we have a nifty spell we can use to stay alive + regen mana. While I do agree it's lacking in PvE, I must say it's not so black and dark as people present it to be.

Besides, I saw so much theorycrafting but I never saw a person who was close to doing the numbers in theorycraft simulations - meaning losing 1 mind flay, 1 mind blast and 1 swd while regening won't annihilate your dps. So you can either whine about being silenced for 6 seconds or at least try the talent and then decide if it sucks or not.

[boboid]

After months of reading, finally a useful topic on MMO Champion!

I'm not a PVE player and prolly will never be so i'm just gonna talk about PVP.

Looking at our spells and talents current state on PTR (likely to be the same when the patch comes) I'm overjoyed when it comes to fighting melee, and that includes Warriors and Rogues. Let's have a quick look what goodies we have for defense against powerful melee which is always combined with movement impairing effects:

1. fade&imp. shadowform - now this is something warriors and rogues will hate

Your Fade ability now has a 100% chance to remove all movement impairing effects when used while in Shadowform, and reduces casting or channeling time lost when damaged by 70% when casting any Shadow spell while in Shadowform.

Works like a trinket, no need to pop out of shadowform and heal yourself and rely on your resilience rating to survive anymore.

2. dispersion - reduces damage received by 90% for six seconds and gives 36% mana back. fighting a rogue usually means bringing out shadowfiend in a certain period of the fight, unless you are already dead. hit dispersion and laugh at the rogue's face while he's hitting you.

3. divine hymn - yes, it's channeled. and hell you can't cast it out of shadowform. but when applied it's a protection/cc utility that gives u an edge over melee. if they trinket it, just apply scream and u've got them cc'ed again. with the recent nerf to the WOTF, there is no way of fucking up your CC. unless they are warriors.
ignore this, i didn't realize that it doesn't put to sleep your attackers anymore

4. pom - always been helpful when out of shadowform, spamming it in some arena situations was a life saver. the same goes for BGs.

5. trinket out of poisons/stuns/etc

6. stoneform - best racial in the game along with escape artist. go dwarf.

I've mentioned four protection spells you should use if the situation gets hairy. combined with trinket if needed, i don't see a way melee could slaughter us as they do these days.

[Nezoia]

Sunwell is extreme and it's safe to assume that the first raids in WotLK won't be as hard. Now go and give me the examples of not losing any DPS in BT and MH while using Dispersion. All fights, please.

Oki:

Mount Hyjal
- Rage Winterchill: Running out of Death&Decay
- Anetheron: Running to the Infernal Tank spot, or while having low hp and under the effect of Carrion Swarm
- Kaz'rogal: Extra mana regen is ALWAYS welcome in this fight!
- Azgalor: When silenced (3 seconds), or running out of fire (3-5 seconds)
- Archimonde: Running from fire, or just before a Soul Charge

Black Temple:
- Naj'enthus: While the shield is up , timed so it ends just after it breaks.
- Supremus: While running away from Supremus, gives a good oppotunity to avoid taking extra damage. Or when you get close to a Volcano and is on low hp.
- Akama: Ok, nothing here but Akama is a joke fight.
- Teron Gorefiend: In case of high threat / low hp, but not likely to happend. Fast fight, I don't even use shadowfriend on Teron normally
- Reliquary of Souls: It's not possible to go OOM on RoS, but in the end of P2, or if you get Spite in P3.
- Mother Shahraz: While having Fatal Attraction comes in mind.
- Illidari Council: Long fight, more mana regen is always welcome. I often have to move due to flamestrike/concration.
- Illidan Stormrage: Not really the hardest fight, but at the entry to P2 comes in mind, letting the tanks get aggro and gives you enough mana to kill the Flames of Azzinoth, a point where you CANNOT use shadowfriend, lol.

Happy?

It's only valid to talk about dps loss if you HAVE to use dispersion or shadowfriend. Alot of the given fights above doesn't require the use of such.

I would also enjoy it ALOT for trash waves in Mount Hyjal, as you all might know, you run ALOT in Hyjal, special at the Horde Camp.

[Amana]

Thanks a lot Nezoia for putting a bit of common sense in this whole mess.

Yes Dispersion IS useful in PvE as it is now. I'm not spitting on an almost-iceblock during which I can run and regen mana. Man, this is an awesome ability, just think a bit about it.

[Worshaka]

(meaning EJ is wrong and it is 18% now.)

EJ isn't wrong (and rarely is). 17% has always been your miss chance without talents/gear for a mob +3 lvls... the hit cap used to be 16% so now with the ability to remove the inane 1% miss you will require 17% hit to be hit capped.

This can been seen with the current spriest hit cap of 76 with 5/5 shadow focus... 10% from talents and 76 hit rating = 6% hit at lvl 70.

[Ida]

To clarify: Shadow Guard and Hex of Weakness are going to be REMOVED.

/cry
<3 shadow guard
/wave goodbye

[Harima]

I agree the talents do help us in pvp, but not really.

imp shadowform: yeah you unsnare to run away, but, a rogue can deadly throw and sprint catch up to u and hit u again with another snare/cc. warrior, hamstring then if u get away, they can charge u. Death knights will hit u with chains of ice, and if they havent death griped u, they can death grip u back to them. I do welcome it, I think it is helpful, but it needs a little bit of work.

with dispersion:
Dispersion has a cool graphic, but it alerts everyone that u already hit it. So in my experience with it, people target me, and start casting long casts that do major damage and warriors run towards me ready for execute and etc. etc. etc. Dispersion in pvp in my experience only delays the inevitable. Only time I lived was when someone was healing me, but then again we as SP's in BG do fine without dispersion and someone throwing us a friendly heal.

[Ntrails]

I agree the talents do help us in pvp, but not really.

imp shadowform: yeah you unsnare to run away, but, a rogue can deadly throw and sprint catch up to u and hit u again with another snare/cc. warrior, hamstring then if u get away, they can charge u. Death knights will hit u with chains of ice, and if they havent death griped u, they can death grip u back to them. I do welcome it, I think it is helpful, but it needs a little bit of work.

with dispersion:
Dispersion has a cool graphic, but it alerts everyone that u already hit it. So in my experience with it, people target me, and start casting long casts that do major damage and warriors run towards me ready for execute and etc. etc. etc. Dispersion in pvp in my experience only delays the inevitable. Only time I lived was when someone was healing me, but then again we as SP's in BG do fine without dispersion and someone throwing us a friendly heal.

Imp shadowform is very strong, Use it at the right time to get the most out of it - yes the rogue will sprint back - on the other hand if you used it after a fear to get some distance you gain valuable time. Of course the rogue will probably just reset the fight. Vanish blind sap. Your cooldowns are gone and his aren't.

Dispersion is awesome, imagine popping it when a rogue hits shadow dance? Or Against anyone who cannot dispel your DoTs - Ve + VT + DP + SW:P will do a lot of damage and healing in 6 seconds. As for long casts.... you can run easily out of range in terms of a mage Pyroing - for example.

Side note: Shielding before Dispersion - would it allow you to completely rage starve the warrior? Would the dispersion reduction occur first, in other words, then the absorbtion. He would only auto attack to generate rage, but with nothing going through for 6 secs he would just be generating from DoT damage. Actually shielding pre dispersion seems inherently good tbh if that is how it works.

[Nezoia]

Having some good attemps on Kil'jaeden today (62%) I can only say I really want improved shadowform NOW.

And yes, Fire Bloom do cause massive spellpushback while it's up. Pushback PW:S doesn't seem to prevent

And Dispersion, for when we run under the dragon shield. Mana is allready a big issue if I don't get the regen buff from one of the blue drakes.

[Harima]

Imp shadowform is very strong, Use it at the right time to get the most out of it - yes the rogue will sprint back - on the other hand if you used it after a fear to get some distance you gain valuable time. Of course the rogue will probably just reset the fight. Vanish blind sap.&#160; Your cooldowns are gone and his aren't.

Dispersion is awesome, imagine popping it when a rogue hits shadow dance?&#160; Or Against anyone who cannot dispel your DoTs - Ve + VT + DP + SW:P will do a lot of damage and healing in 6 seconds. As for long casts.... you can run easily out of range in terms of a mage Pyroing - for example.&#160;

Side note: Shielding before Dispersion - would it allow you to completely rage starve the warrior? Would the dispersion reduction occur first, in other words, then the absorbtion.&#160; He would only auto attack to generate rage, but with nothing going through for 6 secs he would just be generating from DoT damage.&#160; Actually shielding pre dispersion seems inherently good tbh if that is how it works.

Hey Ntrails:

I agree with what you are saying, and like i said earlier it does help us in pvp, but then again as it stands we (as shadow) do fine without it too.&#160; So with Dispersion, I feel that it isnt worth a 51 point talent, but it still has its usefulness as you pointed out and as Nezoia has pointed out in pve.

With your side note: I havent really tried shielding right before dispersion because by that time im typically focus fired by multiple enemies near me and my shield goes down relatively fast.&#160;

With warriors in a 1 on 1 with a shadow priest, we shadow priests shouldnt have a lot problems beating them when we have good stack of resilience to minimize their crits and if they have 4/5 of any pvp gear, their weakened soul debuff drops faster.&#160; My friend who is an ms warrior with 4/5 brutal gear and sitting on about 9 season four honor/arena gear has trouble putting me into the ground.&#160; I'll test your question thou with someone in beta since now im curious too. ;D

[Neram]

Dispersion is a great ability.

I wasn´t sure about it,when i saw the talent first, but after the first Naxx - runs (the small version of it), i noticed, that the Shadow has extremely problems whith his mana. Any other Casterclass can cast the whole fight - when they have the replenishment buff. But there wasn´t a boss, where i wasn´t oom at 30% - with all CDs, that means Fiend, Dispersion 2 times, Mana Tide and Innervate.

I think, that the Shadow is well scaled at the moment, but Blizz has to change something with the replenishment buff or something else.
For example the Retri:
He gives the raid the replenishment buff, like the shadow do too. But every time he does use his judgement he is restoring about 1500 of his own mana. That means he isn´t going oom.
Why Shadows doesn´t have something like this - everytime we use our Mind Blast, 10 people with the lowest mana will become the replnishment buff and we are restoring a little bit of our own mana.

That would be realy helpful. The dmg output of the shadow is ok, but he is falling behind every dmg class, when he is going oom in a bossfight, when the boss has about 30%.

[Freyros]

Mount Hyjal
- Rage Winterchill: Running out of Death&Decay
- Anetheron: Running to the Infernal Tank spot, or while having low hp and under the effect of Carrion Swarm
- Kaz'rogal: Extra mana regen is ALWAYS welcome in this fight!
- Azgalor: When silenced (3 seconds), or running out of fire (3-5 seconds)
- Archimonde: Running from fire, or just before a Soul Charge

Black Temple:
- Naj'enthus: While the shield is up , timed so it ends just after it breaks.
- Supremus: While running away from Supremus, gives a good oppotunity to avoid taking extra damage. Or when you get close to a Volcano and is on low hp.
- Akama: Ok, nothing here but Akama is a joke fight.
- Teron Gorefiend: In case of high threat / low hp, but not likely to happend. Fast fight, I don't even use shadowfriend on Teron normally
- Reliquary of Souls: It's not possible to go OOM on RoS, but in the end of P2, or if you get Spite in P3.
- Mother Shahraz: While having Fatal Attraction comes in mind.
- Illidari Council: Long fight, more mana regen is always welcome. I often have to move due to flamestrike/concration.
- Illidan Stormrage: Not really the hardest fight, but at the entry to P2 comes in mind, letting the tanks get aggro and gives you enough mana to kill the Flames of Azzinoth, a point where you CANNOT use shadowfriend, lol.

Happy?

Not quite so.

Rage: it doesn't take 6 seconds to run out of D&D. 1-2 seconds should be enough.
Anetheron: so around a 20% chance to use it every encounter when there's Inferno on you. Having low hp is no reason to auto-silence yourself. It's a reason not to use SWD, though.
Kaz'rogal: proven to be useful.
Azgalor: it never takes 6 seconds to run out of fire.
Archimonde: oh, shit! situations only - when you or someone else screws up. I never experienced running oom in this encounter anyway.
Naj'entus: proven to be not a DPS loss.
Supremus: I always DPS during the phase 2, sorry. Clever players don't need oh, shit! buttons.
Akama: useless.
Teron: useless.
Bloodboil: it is a DPS loss.
RoS: same.

So out of those, I only see Kaz'rogal as a fight, I'd really like to have this spell on. Otherwise it's either a DPS loss (so you didn't prove your point, mate) or it's not needed if a) you're a clever player; and b) your healers are competent.

My point is:
If we need to use this pvp talent to have enough mana for the entire boss encounter in WotLK, then something is wrong with our class. We already have our stupid Shadowfiend, a replenishment, two mana totems, one mana potion, a dark/demonic rune and a Hymn of Hope from a friendly disc/holy priest. Shouldn't it be enough?

[Neram]

My point is:
If we need to use this pvp talent to have enough mana for the entire boss encounter in WotLK, then something is wrong with our class. We already have our stupid Shadowfiend, a replenishment, two mana totems, one mana potion, a dark/demonic rune and a Hymn of Hope from a friendly disc/holy priest. Shouldn't it be enough?

at the moment it isn´t enough mana restore with dispersion in my opinion!!!

[Blain]

There is one big question I have: Can someone give me a example, that Dispersion fucks up your dps?

It silences you for about 18 sek on a 10 min fight. the only Spells that don't do dps while that are Mindflay and Mindblast.
Mindblast has 5.5 sek CD so its 3 seks in CD while in Dispersion or: 9 sec in the fight where the spell is not in CD, but you cannot cast it. that is just one Mindblast more without Dispersion. (1.5 sec cast+5.5 sec CD).
18 Mindflay ticks would be lost. Lets say you can get arround 500 Ticks in 10 min, because of the other Spells you need to cast. ( maybe a bit to many ticks, I admit that, but it is easier to calculate. I think it sould be arround 480 ticks)
And 109 Mindblasts.

You would lose arround 4% of your MFticks and arround 1% of your MBs. So you are only loosing 4% of your MF dps an 1% of your MB dps. Even if 75% of your Dps is MF and the other 25% are done by MB it is only a loose of 3,25% dps, or somewhat between 50 to 90 form 1,5 to 2,5k dps

This is how I calculated it, is it that wrong? Because of this calculation I allways thought Dispersion is far away form a Dps distroyer.

PS: Yes english is not my first language, yes I have problems with spelling even in german and yes you can study on a University without be good in writing.

[prox]

I got a suggestion for our dot protection in PVP aspect of game.

Shadow Weaving:
Your Shadow damage spells have a 33% chance to increase the Shadow damage you deal by 2% for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.In addition reduces the chance your shadow spells will be dispelled by 10%. (Stacks 3 times with 3 points). Does not stack with Silent Resolve.

So shadow weaving goes normaly up to 100% with 3 points and chance shadow dots wont be dispeled is increased by 30%. That would give us a chance to avoid useless talents for Spriests and actually increase pvp playability. And I know it's not the right topic but anyway... What do u think? I kinda like the idea

Edit: typo

[Ntrails]

Rage: it doesn't take 6 seconds to run out of D&D. 1-2 seconds should be enough.
Anetheron: so around a 20% chance to use it every encounter when there's Inferno on you. Having low hp is no reason to auto-silence yourself. It's a reason not to use SWD, though.
Kaz'rogal: proven to be useful.
Azgalor: it never takes 6 seconds to run out of fire.
Archimonde: oh, shit! situations only - when you or someone else screws up. I never experienced running oom in this encounter anyway.
Naj'entus: proven to be not a DPS loss.
Supremus: I always DPS during the phase 2, sorry. Clever players don't need oh, shit! buttons.
Akama: useless.
Teron: useless.
Bloodboil: it is a DPS loss.
RoS: same.

Rage - You might use it when you get ice lanced (whatever it is called) if your trinket is on CD. I believe you can hit it whilst stunned? Yes your healers should dispel in time - but it is not exactly a DPS race, and survival is king.

Anetheron - I disagree that being on low HP is no reason to use it. There are multiple combos of abilities that might result in you having low health and out of range of effective heals. Including if an inferno runs past where you are after the AoE cone damage - since their aura can sting....

Archimonde - If done flawlessly then useless. But rarely does every encounter go flawlessly. So I think an ability that may help you Not to wipe the raid by being **** is worth a talent point. (Yes I include dying to a soul charge as failing, unless 2-3 chain you should survive).

Supremus, really could not be much easier. I agree no use. Same with Shade. Too simple to mean anything.

Bloodboil - I think that if you get the aggro buff doodad I would DoT him up, Mind blast, and then dispersion. Dps loss is right - but much much safer than risking a crit string.

RoS - not worth using, apart from in P1 when you would be a very strong tank for the enrage period (if I remember it right)

Mother - awesome

Illidari council - the only BT fight I found mana to be a real issue - due to very high number of resists. Also a nice response to being 'rogued'.

Illidan - plenty of uses and appropriate times. Though mana is not an issue, survival is.



About 50% of dispersion use would be based upon a DPS loss, but they might be a DPS gain in the event of you surviving as opposed to dying. If you assume everyone does the encounter perfectly, then yes it is less useful. There are still plenty of good times to use it, when it costs you only a percentage of the 6 seconds since some would have been lost anyway.

[Deleted]

I would never go to a raid and not be already hit capped so the hit% buff is already redundant.