Mongoose proccs for Feral Druids

[Furo]

So, I tested the Mongoose proccs for my Druid on the PTR. But I noticed the procc rate seems very low to me. In PvP and, before Executioner, in raids I saw Rogues/Shamans with a double procc even.
In cat form I got the feeling of something like only 1 PPM and bear form not much more. So it's way less effective for our dps than on any other melee dps class. Same for tanking since warriors tanking weapons are mostly fast speeded. Tho DKs will use slow 2h and paladins will prolly still rather take some +spelldmg enchant.

I'm not really good at theory crafting, so are there any calculations about the use of it for feral dps and tanking?
Maybe +35 agi is still better?

Anyone knows something about it?

[Bullshifter]

Well, in theory "PPM" means it will proc X times per minute regardless of what your weapon speed is. I think the only modifier to this is haste. I haven't done any testing to see whether it's bugged for us lowering our actually PPM on Mongoose compared to that of Rogues and shaman- but remember as well that they have two weapons they're proc'ing with.

[Furo]

Well, yeah. But I also wonder if it gets modified by skills like Slice 'n Dice and such.
I know other melee dps got two weapons, but shouldn't 1 sec attackspeed make up for it, or is it really only calculated in PPM?

[Semi]

Think he means that they have enchanted both their weapons, so in theory they should have double proccrate.

[Pepperpot]

Unless things have changed since I shelved my drood - chants that proc don't do jack for feral. Only thing you'd get is if you were swinging your melee weapon in caster form. Go with the +Agi

[Burdeus]

Things have changed. All enchants now work in forms.

[Deleted]

it can't proc less than others, since it's PPM, not speed related
it will however proc 2 times less than whoever is dual wielding...
you think it procs more in bear cuz the bear hits 2.5 times slower, so it procs 2.5 faster related to number of hits, but at the same PPM

[Furo]

Ok, so basically Mongoose always has the same PPM while weilding one weapon, not depending on speed anyhow.
While weilding two weapons, the PPM is doubled.
But the PPM is increased by haste effects, right?
So we should have the same PPM as a prot warrior weilding only one weapon.
Tho this leads to us being in a disadvantage PPM-wise against other melee dps dual weilding.

But another question.. I see classes weilding twohanders mostly prefering Executioner.
So should we ferals rather go for Executioner, at least for dps?
Can anyone tell the PPM rate of Mongoose?

[arel00]

But another question.. I see classes weilding twohanders mostly prefering Executioner.
So should we ferals rather go for Executioner, at least for dps?
Can anyone tell the PPM rate of Mongoose?

Mongoose PPM was stated to be around 2. I'm not sure but that's what I found out looking on the forums recently.

Thing is, for warriors and retpalas, the 2handers dps classes, Executioner is simply better in terms of dps because of their stats formulas. Neither one of them gets AP from agility, so the buff they gets is an increased crit chance and 2% haste, while rogue, eg, also gain 120AP from each proc, not counting that haste affects dualwieldieng classes way more than 2handers, given the amount of white damage they do.

Druids will actually gain 132AP (120*110%), as well as a small haste and increased chance to crit, if cats. And a good deal of dodge if bears (cat dodge in PvE isn't the main issue, I hope noone starts to point out that ).

It should take some maths if Executioner is better in terms of dps, if I'm allowed to guess then I'd go for Mongoose tho. You may also want to consider keeping the same weapon for dps and tanking, thus using an enchant that affects both (as 3.0 hits I'm switching Wilfury Greatstaff for Staff of the Forest Lord for tanking).


Modified to add: silly as it may seem, if you keep your weapons separate, you may want to consider the impact of dear old Crusader on you dps, being an effective (for cats) 220AP proc. That should take some math too, I never checked until now.

[Ghash]

Mongoose PPM was stated to be around 2. I'm not sure but that's what I found out looking on the forums recently.

Thing is, for warriors and retpalas, the 2handers dps classes, Executioner is simply better in terms of dps because of their stats formulas. Neither one of them gets AP from agility, so the buff they gets is an increased crit chance and 2% haste, while rogue, eg, also gain 120AP from each proc, not counting that haste affects dualwieldieng classes way more than 2handers, given the amount of white damage they do.

Druids will actually gain 132AP (120*110%), as well as a small haste and increased chance to crit, if cats. And a good deal of dodge if bears (cat dodge in PvE isn't the main issue, I hope noone starts to point out that ).

It should take some maths if Executioner is better in terms of dps, if I'm allowed to guess then I'd go for Mongoose tho. You may also want to consider keeping the same weapon for dps and tanking, thus using an enchant that affects both (as 3.0 hits I'm switching Wilfury Greatstaff for Staff of the Forest Lord for tanking).


Modified to add: silly as it may seem, if you keep your weapons separate, you may want to consider the impact of dear old Crusader on you dps, being an effective (for cats) 220AP proc. That should take some math too, I never checked until now.

Crusader is only a 60 strength buff at 70, meaning it'd be the same AP buff but no haste or crit.

[Deleted]

Mongoose PPM was stated to be around 2. I'm not sure but that's what I found out looking on the forums recently.

if this is true then let's make some basic math
2 ppm means it procs every 30 seconds and it lasts 15 seconds
so it's active 50% of the time
making it equal to a passive 60 agi and 1% haste... obviously better than 35 agi
how can u even ask if being able to enchant ur wep with proc enchants is good or...not ?

[arel00]

Crusader is only a 60 strength buff at 70, meaning it'd be the same AP buff but no haste or crit.

Thanks for info.

[Nezoia]

Basicly, PPM enchants for the normalized 1.0 attack speed for cat sucks.

For the slower, 3.0 (or is it 2.4 , I can't remember) attacks that Bears have it's close to be optimal.

I would still go with +35agi for early T4/T5 content, and then slap on Mongoose for Tier 6 level content and later. Mostly due to the lack of dodge in T4 content since most tanks focus on stamina for that part.

[xebtria]

mongoose has 1 proc per minute @ 0 haste. lasts 10 sec, so basically over one minute until it procs again it is 120/6=20 agility. so to compare it to the 35 agility enchant you would need 75% haste (because a ppm is calculated through attackspeed and then it has a fixed % proc depending on the attackspeed, and if you stack haste, this % chance to proc will not change, so the more haste, the more ppm you get over time)

so you see, 35 agility will still be superior at all times, and in wotlk there are coming new enchants for 100% sure

[Chrysanthemum]

Look guys, you can only get 1 Mongoose proc per weapon and it only has a chance to proc when the weapon with the enchant hits.

Edit: It can refresh. It has no Internal CD.
~ Now it IS possible to equip 2 weapons and have Mongoose on both of them, this is why you'd see a rogue with 2 mongoose procs, but if you get 1 mongoose proc, then another from the SAME WEAPON during the duration of that mongoose proc it'll just refresh the duration. I think Mongoose has an Internal CD to prevent that though.~

Also, we get procs in forms now. Our paw and any weapon we currently have equipped are now considered the same so that we can get procs.

mongoose has 1 proc per minute @ 0 haste. lasts 10 sec, so basically over one minute until it procs again it is 120/6=20 agility. so to compare it to the 35 agility enchant you would need 75% haste (because a ppm is calculated through attackspeed and then it has a fixed % proc depending on the attackspeed, and if you stack haste, this % chance to proc will not change, so the more haste, the more ppm you get over time)

so you see, 35 agility will still be superior at all times, and in wotlk there are coming new enchants for 100% sure

Edit again: You're right, it is 1 PPM per weapon it's enchanted on. However it does proc off specials and since Cats use a LOT of specials you'll still see it proc enough to be better than 35 Agi.


It does give you 40 haste rating as well. It's FAR above and beyond 35 agi as a damage proc and because our only source of avoidance is Dodge (gained primarily from Agi) this is a pretty good tanking enchant. I'd take 35 Agi for tanking only because it's more consistent.

[Tygroen]

As an fyi, executioner wouldn't affect Rip at all, so a Rip dps rotation wouldn't benefit as much as it would from a mongoose enchant. I am going for mongoose with the new patch.