So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

[woeye]

Guys, have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsTefpyN50s

I mean, erm, lol? And Blizzard says Elemental DPS is scary? Sorry what?
Let us all reroll druids, shall we?

[thunderdome]

you should have compared it to the prot warrior or holy pally. as blizzard states we do more damage than tanks and healers.

you might be able to beat them

[kaelerean]

well you are looking at crap videos, at level 80 with 1100 spell dmg my lava burst deals around 6k critical though in the video you showed us deals 5k,
sooooo in my opinion not only you are looking into low geared shaman but maybe also not even 80 lvl.....

Every class will same dps, so get over any tears about shaman dps cause it is already getting buffed

[Huon]

omg you are so right!

You and I should just quit the game right now!

You go first...


Seriously though, no one seems to understand that blizzards talks to a lot of great players of top end guilds to balance their stuff. Someone sayins "hey my classe's dps suxxor!!" doesnt mean anything because as far as Blizz knows, you could be a terrible player that is completely clueless as to how to DPS properly, as is the case with probably 70% of the QQ posts about DPS.

EDIT: Just as a sidenote, you claim 1500-1600 dps at 80 in that video, elemental shamans in my raid normally do that at 70 with BT gear. I highly doubt that for level 80, with more stats and more offensive spells, you do the same DPS.

[Charo]

omg you are so right!

You and I should just quit the game right now!

You go first...


Seriously though, no one seems to understand that blizzards talks to a lot of great players of top end guilds to balance their stuff. Someone sayins "hey my classe's dps suxxor!!" doesnt mean anything because as far as Blizz knows, you could be a terrible player that is completely clueless as to how to DPS properly, as is the case with probably 70% of the QQ posts about DPS.

EDIT: Just as a sidenote, you claim 1500-1600 dps at 80 in that video, elemental shamans in my raid normally do that at 70 with BT gear. I highly doubt that for level 80, with more stats and more offensive spells, you do the same DPS.

It's just another end of the world post / the sky is falling post...

Blizzard isn't just going to leave elemental shamans broken (if they are, don't have a beta account), but they've also said a lot of the other classes are doing TOO MUCH dps, with the limited amount of people beta testing, it's almost impossible to tweak every class/gear/spec combo, because there's always someone out there thinking outside of the box, I say just wait till we're all 80 on live, if it's still broken, they'll fix it, they always do.

[Darthphyre]

I know elems live that 1500-1600 dps in non-t6 gear, so have faith XD

[numanuma]

so with the haste points are the elemental shaman about the same dps compared to other classes and what would you suggest is a good rotations of spells to use at 80 in raids?

[Azaril]

Seriously, you're looking at a failure of a shaman and then complaining that he does crappy DPS and take that as a sign of things to come ?

as Huon said, this is why blizzard doesnt take 99% of what people say about their class into consideration.

[Garamal]

This test is in accurate. you have no haste. if you actually had haste and not blues you might hurt something. every ele shaman that gets taken to sunwell knows you need 250 haste+ to do competitive. Haste directly impacts Lo which im sure i read in a blue post is blizzards idea if making ele keep up with mages and locks. so untill you have good gear most tests are inaccurate.
I mean im sure they could buff spell coffe a bit to help the problem but over all i thking running a 4Lb-Lvb rotation will be nice once you get 25% haste+

Did I miss something? Since when are shamans the only ones, who can get haste? Other classes do scale better. Thats just a fact. And LO by far can't fill that gap.

[woeye]

To clarify some things up:

1. This is not my char. Found this link on the net.
2. The author plays a shaman for several years. Up to SWP.
3. The author played this shaman on the beta server up to level 80 and changed gear a bit.
4. The author made a level 80 premade druid.
5. The author never played a druid before.

Yet he was able to dish out more DPS with a worse geared druid? Guys, if you say that an elemental
shaman only starts to DPS with the proper gear. I mean, what do you think will the druid do? Are you
trying to tell me that a druid won't scale?
Given equal gear, I wonder whether the shaman still out-DPS a druid?

[anyaka21]

Regardless of video though, OP is right. Elemental damage is way below where the other classes are. There are too many wws reports that prove this.

Elementals are typically in the 2.6k-3k dps range, while other classes are usually over 4k dps. And yeah some of that might be gear related, play related, etc.. but even our top end damage does not equal other classes.

That is a very, very bad sign.

And add that the way our talents are, it will only get worse as we have basically no scaling talents. Naxx 25 should be where we are elite just as t4 and early t5 were. The combination of ToW and Flametongue, we should be doing top damage, but we are at the very very bottom of the scale right now.

So yeah, it's a QQ, however it's a QQ based on the facts.

[Miranger]

you eles are pathetic... bitching and bitching about dps... when everyone took it up the ass when it comes to a dps nerf except rogues and pallies... so deal with it... its not just you shut up

[stormix]

Facts ? Well,imo its 10 October today, so there are 30+ days till wotlk...? There is plenty of time to fix the shaman. Ffs,it like the feral droods at the launch of TBC.If you remember,feral drood,with this new Mangle ownd everyone and everything. Then,they fixed it. Now the drood with this mangle does...how to say it, well almost nothing. And 1 more time, why you just dont wait untill WotLK is released, get up to 80, get at least blue gear,and then QQ ? :S If you think the class is broken- reroll, or just quit it.
And yes, Miranger +1, everyone is getting nerferd atm,so just wait...stop qq'ing.

[anyaka21]

you eles are pathetic... bitching and bitching about dps... when everyone took it up the ass when it comes to a dps nerf except rogues and pallies... so deal with it... its not just you shut up

facts are facts Mir. Look at the reports on the links. They prove the point.

My whole question though asks basically in a fight like patchwerk, where is the dps supposed to be? If all similarly geared, say all blues, all premade toons, what should everyones dps be?

My guess would be around 4k. If that is the case then those doing near 5k, need serious nerfs, and those in the 3k range, namely elementals, need serious buffs.

[Huon]

Regardless of video though, OP is right. Elemental damage is way below where the other classes are. There are too many wws reports that prove this.

Elementals are typically in the 2.6k-3k dps range, while other classes are usually over 4k dps. And yeah some of that might be gear related, play related, etc.. but even our top end damage does not equal other classes.

That is a very, very bad sign.

And add that the way our talents are, it will only get worse as we have basically no scaling talents. Naxx 25 should be where we are elite just as t4 and early t5 were. The combination of ToW and Flametongue, we should be doing top damage, but we are at the very very bottom of the scale right now.

So yeah, it's a QQ, however it's a QQ based on the facts.

Yah but you know what? Blizzard can see that and they just buffed LvB by like ~10%. They aren't clueless about whats going on :P

[anyaka21]

Yah but you know what? Blizzard can see that and they just buffed LvB by like ~10%. They aren't clueless about whats going on :P

you realize taht LvB is on a CD thus it's only about 20% of an elementals damage. Thus a 10% buff to it equates to about a 2% buff....

My point is that this is all as of right now... meaning.... right now...
no it's not live but things need to change as have been proven. As my other post described, with no scaling talents, ToW is static, FT is static. Our dps should be higher at entry level 80 raids. - just as it was in Kara, Mag/Gruuls.

Facts show we are not. Thus something needs to change for them to be realistically viable.

And remember, sure LK hits in 1 month, but 3.0 hits live in less than a week.

[Offhand]

You more worried about dps after 3.0 or dps after 80?

[numanuma]

both should be looked at. If the dps of an elemental shaman sucks after 3.0, what would make someone want to level it all the way to 80 not knowing if the dps will be any better then

[Kelias]

Guys, have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsTefpyN50s

I mean, erm, lol? And Blizzard says Elemental DPS is scary? Sorry what?
Let us all reroll druids, shall we?

They're balancing classes against a standard, not against other classes. In simpler terms: you don't adjust one class to match the DPS of another, you match all classes DPS against a single number. Some classes have been balanced more or less, others have not.

[arel00]

Just to point out something:

- the druid is using its full capabilities, since spamming Starfire/Wrath counts in all damage buffs exept Imp FF, besides Starfire spam is a quite common "rotation" choice
- Eclypse has been stated to be the least important talent for lazorkins, and that puts him even more close to the class full potential
- it is obvious that he is not using any totem while dpsing with the shaman, nerfing his damage by not using Flametongue/Warth of Air, which are part of the class and should be taken into account when testing
- when dpsing with the druid, we can clearly see he's benefitting from buffs the elemental shaman is giving him, just go full screen and check, he has Wrath of Air and other buffs (in fact, what you see is the *second* row of buffs)
- it is not even true he is spamming one button only, because the mob is debuffed by Moonfire, and that adds dps trough talents aswell, and when spamming Starfire in the last part he is even using Starfall

I can't tell the dps situation of elemental shamans right now, so maybe your complains are perfectly justified.
Said that, please don't use these kind of videos as proofs. The testing is totally messed up, he used less buffs than his class potential in one case and external buffs in the other, the rotations and things he stated are deliberately wrong and thus any supposed reliability of these dps checks simply fades away.

You have all reasons to ask for improvements if your class truly falls behind. But messing up dps checks that way only makes people less inclined to listen to you guys.