Dont nerf me bro ! (Blizzcon quote inside)

[Moar Pew Pew]

Pvp at 80 or find someone who has that can actually back up your points. It's that simple.

Le sigh. You fail. You don't have to exclusively be on beta to know how it is. It's called research. You seem to think that only your word is law, yet many beta players disagree with you. I'm trying to see things from your point of view, but I can't stick my head that far up my ass.

[Tigercat]

yet many beta players disagree with you.

Ok, let's see em.

Edit: And be quick about it, my idle time watching the forums will be gone for today soon.

[Karpalo]

How can retris have problems with healer`s really? Healer dmg ain`t anything to brag about and being the class with nearly infinite mana and powerful selfheals i really don`t see healers a problem. Sure they won`t maybe go down as quick but you will propably just outlast em eventually. Rogue`s got bit more control but they just can`t get 10k hp in exchange for 20 energy.

[Moar Pew Pew]

How can retris have problems with healer`s really? Healer dmg ain`t anything to brag about and being the class with nearly infinite mana and powerful sealheals i really don`t see healers a problem. Sure they won`t maybe go down as quick but you will propably just outlast em eventually. Rogue`s got bit more control but they just can`t get 10k hp in exchange for 20 energy.

It's not that we have a problem fighting a healer only, we can just out last them. But if we are spending 15 minutes trying to kill a Druid while a Rogue has been stabbing me in the ass with his fancy new Mut spec, then the situation is different.

Ok, let's see em.

: Just go read the WotLK forums. There are just as many threads for my arguement as yours.

[Karpalo]

It's not that we have a problem fighting a healer only, we can just out last them. But if we are spending 15 minutes trying to kill a Druid while a Rogue has been stabbing me in the ass with his fancy new Mut spec, then the situation is different.

: Just go read the WotLK forums. There are just as many threads for my arguement as yours.

It`s highly unlikely you are alone in arena really. And if you are you propably should lose 2 vs 1 anyways...

[Tigercat]

The threads started by people that agree with you are filled by people that agree with me and the occasional retadin trying to defend their broken spec.

Show me one person willing to come on these forums that has pvp'd at 80, and can explain why ret pvp at level 80 is not unbalanced. Having the highest burst WITH good to high overall dps WITH plate WITH self-healing WITH a self-sustaining power bar WITH undispellable buffs WITH multiple ways to protect yourself is quite simply a bad idea.

Defensive Hybrid + the damage of another class with less defenses = wrong. I'd personally prefer the defensive hybrid portion is nerfed, since that won't adversely effect pve nearly as much.

[Chazhole]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.wowinside...rawler-425.jpg



there u go, GC IS A MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Indris]

The only problem with Paladins is their self-healing - it really IS rather overpowered atm with all the instant FoLs and divine storm flying around. Their damage, at least at level 80, isn't really "op" or anything, not that I've noticed at least - and no, I don't play a Paladin as my main or anything. Anyone who cries OMG PALA ONESHOTS ME OMG just needs to put on some gear, or l2p, and stfu.

[Moar Pew Pew]

It`s highly unlikely you are alone in arena really. And if you are you propably should lose 2 vs 1 anyways...

Lets say I also have a Resto Druid healer. A Rogue is fairly capable of shutting down a resto Druid, where I have very little chance of that. This is quite obviously dumbed down to the extreme, but the point still stands; we are less capable of fighting healers than most other classes.

It's part of the game and Ret paladins will deal with it, but I was just saying how it's not always black and white.

Having the highest burst WITH good to high overall dps WITH plate WITH self-healing WITH a self-sustaining power bar WITH undispellable buffs WITH multiple ways to protect yourself is quite simply a bad idea.

Meaning Seals? That was created to give us a 100% chance for our entire combat system to not be dispelled. Nothing else we have is "undispellable" besides Bubble, which will never change.

As I said, the only thing wrong with us is when we manage to get SoC to proc off 4 attacks in sequence. This can easily be solved by increasing the internal CD of SoC to 3 seconds or so. This wouldn't affect PvE in the slightest, but would reduce our rare times when we get procs on everything in a row.

Nerfing the most defensive class in the game in the defense department also makes very little sense.

[Tigercat]

I agree with that.  However, giving the most defensive class as much damage as the most offensive class makes even less.

Edit: I'm out for tonight, have fun being stuck at 70 on the ptr.

[Pepsicola]

Woot, now I know playing a Ret Paladin in LK is not like all these unreliable jobs leaving America for Asia.

[Moar Pew Pew]

I agree with that. However, giving the most defensive class as much damage as the most offensive class makes even less.

When we are lacking a lot of the PvP utility spells that offesnive classes have, it does.

Snares (Ones that work aside from giving us 15% advantage)
Healing reduction
Interupts
Mana burns

All these things we lack, which is why our damage is higher. And even then, our damage isn't the highest. True glass cannons still do more, those being Boomkins and such. The complete lack of these has to be factored in.

[Dragonfiregum1]

Show me one person willing to come on these forums that has pvp'd at 80, and can explain why ret pvp at level 80 is not unbalanced. Having the highest burst WITH good to high overall dps WITH plate WITH self-healing WITH a self-sustaining power bar WITH undispellable buffs WITH multiple ways to protect yourself is quite simply a bad idea.

Defensive Hybrid + the damage of another class with less defenses = wrong. I'd personally prefer the defensive hybrid portion is nerfed, since that won't adversely effect pve nearly as much.

Here ive pvp'd at 80, and i can explain why its not unbalanced, tho i do think they need some tweaking.
1st highest burst isnt always the best. Sustainable with decent burst is better. If you can live thru the burst then heal up,before the next then that burst was pointless, but if you cant heal thru sustained.. well you die. This burst is insanely deadly if you are at low hp at the time tho.
Plate doesnt matter, you know whatever class you rolled's armor proficiency. Self healing is decent, But while they are healing they arnt damaging you are they. And they cant heal long, they have to go dps to get mana back.
Self sustaining power bar.. oh you mean like hunters,rogues,feral druids,and warriors?
What buff is undispellable? ret aura?
There able to "protect yourself" oh noes.

Even if you turned ret into a mage, with blink and iceblock and using a 2hander, with the same ret abilitys for dps you'd prolly still cry.

Now onto what i do think needs change.
The stun is long, and the cooldown longer, I would like to cut the stun time but also cut the timer. But remove the talents for reduction.
What this would do? Still provide a useable stun to use a ability while there stunned, but 1 ability not 2-3 (and less after DR)
What i would like to see? 2 second stun 25second CD.
This is just a opinion on what todo with stun, not saying its balanced the solution or anything.

Next. Art of War self heals. This part of self healing is OP. Because your not stopping dps to heal which causes your mana bar to drain and then you need to dps again, these are essentially free heals or added mitigation or could be considered a larger hp pool. The only diffrence then a larger hp pool is , they could be oom if they were drained.
I would like to see this instead of allowing a free heal, adding a 500damage absorb shield buff, lasts 5 seconds. Dispellable.
This would eliminate a OP Crit heal, but still allow some mitigation or time to get a real heal which i assume blizzard wants?
Of course this would be a pvp change, i assume blizzard wants ret to toss out random crap heals as they dps in raids.

[Ceko]

Ret paladins overpowered ;D?

pleeease . my priest eats you guys for lunch

[coldethyl]

Yet we have the lead designer for character balance saying we are fairly balanaced. So I guess that does kind of make your oppinion worthless.

and this is the guy who said mages were working as intended throughout the burning crusade,only to have a statement come put recently stateing that the developers knew mages were broken in the crusade,but since fixing us would have put the lichking expansion behind schedule they didnt do anything about it for over a year?is this the class balanceing expert you are talking about?

[Karpalo]

Lets say I also have a Resto Druid healer. A Rogue is fairly capable of shutting down a resto Druid, where I have very little chance of that. This is quite obviously dumbed down to the extreme, but the point still stands; we are less capable of fighting healers than most other classes.

It's part of the game and Ret paladins will deal with it, but I was just saying how it's not always black and white.

Meaning Seals? That was created to give us a 100% chance for our entire combat system to not be dispelled. Nothing else we have is "undispellable" besides Bubble, which will never change.

As I said, the only thing wrong with us is when we manage to get SoC to proc off 4 attacks in sequence. This can easily be solved by increasing the internal CD of SoC to 3 seconds or so. This wouldn't affect PvE in the slightest, but would reduce our rare times when we get procs on everything in a row.

Nerfing the most defensive class in the game in the defense department also makes very little sense.

Well that`s just bad setup obiviously. Maybe you should try out with pocket rogue or warrior or even with a feral druid and just beat down the rogue instead? If your arena team got 0 synergy you can`t really blame any classes about that. Ie seen any mage/warriors up there?

[Moar Pew Pew]

Well that`s just bad setup obiviously. Maybe you should try out with pocket rogue or warrior or even with a feral druid and just beat down the rogue instead? If your arena team got 0 synergy you can`t really blame any classes about that. Ie seen any mage/warriors up there?

Well yeah. But should we be entirely limited to double dps specs? Because to fight healers we need another DPS spec to do it for us. That's why our only really successful 2v2 team on live is Mages and Rogues.

[Karpalo]

Well point of teamplay is to fill your teammates waeknesses. I could see ret going on with resto shaman but ofc double dps will be just better for retri. It`s same shit with shadowpriests who are doomed to double dps setups, opposite to hunters who can´t go anywhere without a healer with them.

[Moar Pew Pew]

Well point of teamplay is to fill your teammates waeknesses. I could see ret going on with resto shaman but ofc double dps will be just better for retri. It`s same shit with shadowpriests who are doomed to double dps setups, opposite to hunters who can´t go anywhere without a healer with them.

Note that Hunters and Shadow Priests are considered the more "broken" PvP specs. Me thinks I see a connection?

While we can be successful with a Mage or Rogue, they could also just leave the Ret Paladin and be more successful in other set ups. That makes us a weakness, not a strength.

I'm not saying I even want to see change, but I wish people would accept that we do have limitations like every other class/spec.

That being said, I'd trade SoC for an interupt and distance closer any day.

[Karpalo]

I don`t think anyone could consider warrior a broken class even they are basicly forced playing with a healer.