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  1. #1

    Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    The way that I understood it from blizzcon and everything else up til this point....

    Come a certain patch, you will be able to have 2 specs that you can switch to between any fight.
    Hybrid will be able to DPS comparably to Pure.

    Aside from needing 1 Pure for buffs/debuffs, why bring a "limited" class? If you can have a Hybrid do equal damage and can switch and be an efficient healer, why wouldn't you bring more of them? Am I missing something that makes this not possible? Or will this just make for less Pure DPS in raids?

  2. #2

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Locks and mages have CC abilities. That and i still think the pure dps classes will have a somewhat higher dps than hybrids.

  3. #3

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    As long as you can perform well in a raid, follow orders, and show up to raids a pure DPS shouldn't worry about his spot, I would rather fill those spots with good players then bad hybrids who can switch back and forth.

  4. #4

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Quote Originally Posted by Peepingtom
    The way that I understood it from blizzcon and everything else up til this point....

    Come a certain patch, you will be able to have 2 specs that you can switch to between any fight.
    Hybrid will be able to DPS comparably to Pure.

    Aside from needing 1 Pure for buffs/debuffs, why bring a "limited" class? If you can have a Hybrid do equal damage and can switch and be an efficient healer, why wouldn't you bring more of them? Am I missing something that makes this not possible? Or will this just make for less Pure DPS in raids?
    If your skilled you will always be in the raid now.. unlike before...where you'd see ppl like.. no we need locks/rogues plz... gtfo..

    But mages bring raid buffs same with rogues.. But Rogues have and will always be the only "pure" dps class.. b/c they got nothing except dps to offer.. in BC.. but In wrath they got Misdirects- 3% spell/melee crit to raid on boss, and the best melee dps survivability in game. If they aren't a retard.

    I'd rather bring 25 skilled players to my raid.. than to bring XX amount of this class and one of thsi class in that group and wait shit we need a druid.. or <insert class here>. Now we just bring whatever we got and can do ok b/c of non stacking buffs- plus many classes that can give the buffs that are needed.

  5. #5

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Pretty much what x32 said.

    If you're a hybrid, but a crap player, no one will want you, even if you can tank/heal/dps.


  6. #6

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Quote Originally Posted by Icylobster
    Locks and mages have CC abilities. That and i still think the pure dps classes will have a somewhat higher dps than hybrids.
    According to what the Blues have said, it seems to be a 5% advantage, but the question is will that 5% warrant taking a pure class over a hybrid. Does that 5% really compare to the utility and options that a hybrid offers? A good question would be, how much DPS are DPS classes (pure or hybrid) expected to be putting out with the first set of lvl 80 raiding gear? The greater the base DPS, the greater the pure<->hybrid DPS difference.

    If a class is lacking in the eyes of Blizzard, then, as they have said, they will look into increasing the class's abilities. I play a rogue as my main toon, and from what I've experienced from a PvE PoV, I'm hoping Blizzard will examine the problems carefully.
    Updated (9/5/11)
    Current soloed content on rogue (Spec - Combat):
    Classic -- ZG (prior 4.0.1), MC, AQ20 (prior 4.0.3), AQ40 - Skeram, Sartura (prior 4.0.3), Bug Trio, Fankriss, Huhuran (4.0.6)
    TBC -- KZ (prior 4.0.3), ZA, SSC - Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Karathress, Morogrim, TK - Al'ar, Void Reaver, Solarian (4.0.6), Kael'thas (4.2.2), Magtheridon, Kazzak, CoT: MH - Azgalor (with trash) (4.0.6)

  7. #7

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSimtang
    Pretty much what x32 said.

    If you're a hybrid, but a crap player, no one will want you, even if you can tank/heal/dps.

    But if you're a really good player in a really good guild, you'll reroll a hybrid because they will now be just plain better than pure DPS classes. Given a mage and a balance druid of equal skill/gear level, who would you take? Easy, the person who can be a top-notch healer with the push of a button whenever needed.

  8. #8

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Yeah, assuming equal skill/gear a Hybrid,particularly Druids, will be a better choice since they have far superior stacking benefit. Ex: Mage vs boomkin:

    Mage - Imp WE?

    Boomkin - Innervate, Battle Rez, and the flexibility to heal or tank if needed.


  9. #9

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Quote Originally Posted by Th1rte3n
    But if you're a really good player in a really good guild, you'll reroll a hybrid because they will now be just plain better than pure DPS classes. Given a mage and a balance druid of equal skill/gear level, who would you take? Easy, the person who can be a top-notch healer with the push of a button whenever needed.
    Yeah you may be right, but the raids dps will be lower due to mages bringing buffs and debuffs that will boost the raids performance. If you knock out all pure dps classes from a raid (hunters, locks, mages, rogues) and only have hybrids raiding, you really think that would be a good raid composition, and you'll be downing bosses easily? I surely don't think so.


  10. #10

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Quote Originally Posted by Th1rte3n
    But if you're a really good player in a really good guild, you'll reroll a hybrid because they will now be just plain better than pure DPS classes. Given a mage and a balance druid of equal skill/gear level, who would you take? Easy, the person who can be a top-notch healer with the push of a button whenever needed.
    People seem to forget there's more to being a good player than just doing high dps/healing/effective tanking. You have to be able to keep yourself alive as well, play smart if you will. Yes, hybrids can switch out to heal on certain fights where more are needed, but I highly doubt any fights are gonna require 15 healers (exaggeration, but you get the point), therefore there's no real reason to bring all hybrid dps as opposed to "pure" dps. If you know how to dps with your class, as well as staying alive and performing anything else that you're required to do during a given encounter, then there's no reason to worry so much about being replaced.

    EDIT: quoted the wrong post at first >.<

  11. #11

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Obviously people did not pay enough attention to what blizzard was saying. All they heard was "Oh Duel Specs!" and thought IM DEAD, I will be out dpsed. If you take a look at a raid composition chart that mmo-champion has posted. It shows you only need 10-12 people to fill all raid buff slots, leaving the other 13-15 slots to people with skill, not what is needed to be successful in the raid.

  12. #12

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin
    Yeah, assuming equal skill/gear a Hybrid,particularly Druids, will be a better choice since they have far superior stacking benefit. Ex: Mage vs boomkin:

    Mage - Imp WE?

    Boomkin - Innervate, Battle Rez, and the flexibility to heal or tank if needed.

    Why not take both? There are 25 spots in a raid and most raids already take a boomkin and where are you gonna find all those "equally geared/skilled moonkins" to replace all the mages and locks?

  13. #13

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganim
    Obviously people did not pay enough attention to what blizzard was saying. All they heard was "Oh Duel Specs!" and thought IM DEAD, I will be out dpsed. If you take a look at a raid composition chart that mmo-champion has posted. It shows you only need 10-12 people to fill all raid buff slots, leaving the other 13-15 slots to people with skill, not what is needed to be successful in the raid.
    Exactly.


    Although, on a side note regarding whoever said "Gear" will affect this, with the spellpower changes, boomkin and tree gear is going to be pretty much identical. Both stack spellpower and spirit first, then crit for the boomkin.

    I welcome these new changes on my druid, it will make me even more versatile as Im one of those druids who has a set for every spec, fully gemmed and enchanted, and enjoys repseccing 6 times a week to fully use all of my roles. My rogue however, is neutral towards them. He knows hes skilled enough and well liked enough by the guild to keep his spot even though he brings zero utility.

  14. #14

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    the answer to ur dumb post is....... obv u know rogues that are rly good at thier class, and ur goin to take a rogue that u know is good over some bad hybrid that is there just because hes a hybrid........


    this was an official quote from spaycez

  15. #15

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    To say that Tricks of the Trade is useful after Blizzard's newest comment about aggro not being a problem for tanks (unless they are terrible, of which case you wouldn't have them in the first place) is null and void. The main popularity of the hunter's MD is that they don't have to be in melee range to initiate a pull onto the tanks. The reason for TotT was to ensure that the tank does hold aggro, but that was before the threat announcement.
    Updated (9/5/11)
    Current soloed content on rogue (Spec - Combat):
    Classic -- ZG (prior 4.0.1), MC, AQ20 (prior 4.0.3), AQ40 - Skeram, Sartura (prior 4.0.3), Bug Trio, Fankriss, Huhuran (4.0.6)
    TBC -- KZ (prior 4.0.3), ZA, SSC - Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Karathress, Morogrim, TK - Al'ar, Void Reaver, Solarian (4.0.6), Kael'thas (4.2.2), Magtheridon, Kazzak, CoT: MH - Azgalor (with trash) (4.0.6)

  16. #16

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Quote Originally Posted by zeldora
    the answer to ur dumb post is....... obv u know rogues that are rly good at thier class, and ur goin to take a rogue that u know is good over some bad hybrid that is there just because hes a hybrid........


    this was an official quote from spaycez
    But what if this "great" person not only has a rogue, but also a hybrid, has them equally geared and is equally skilled with both of them? You've already got the good player, but it now goes back to which class would be better. By allowing the rogue, you lose the utility the hybrid offers, even if it is only a backup to what someone else already brings. When learning fights, when one person falls, the remaining have to pick up the slack, and having backups of raid buffs/utility is always a plus.


    While most raid buffs have been shared with the multiple classes and cannot stack, druids have an unusually high position because of the uniqueness of "trainable" abilities, which are Rebirth and Innervate.
    Updated (9/5/11)
    Current soloed content on rogue (Spec - Combat):
    Classic -- ZG (prior 4.0.1), MC, AQ20 (prior 4.0.3), AQ40 - Skeram, Sartura (prior 4.0.3), Bug Trio, Fankriss, Huhuran (4.0.6)
    TBC -- KZ (prior 4.0.3), ZA, SSC - Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Karathress, Morogrim, TK - Al'ar, Void Reaver, Solarian (4.0.6), Kael'thas (4.2.2), Magtheridon, Kazzak, CoT: MH - Azgalor (with trash) (4.0.6)

  17. #17

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Stop the stupid whine already and wait and see how things work out i haven't never been taking the ways of min/maxing and i still have enjoyed the game all way from the open beta of vanilla wow.... So that said i never taught the game is about min maxing and more about enjoyment. Also i do enjoy more whit beater players and don't froget pures will always have some nice tricks and thats not only the pure DPS output they provide. I do have 5 chars over 60s 3 on 70s and i tell you what ever toon i play i play cos i love playing it not because it can out DPS something or not. Just try to enjoy the game and stop the mindless whine of everything.

  18. #18

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    The purpose of me bringing this up to discuss concerns that may arrive from it. Eliminate the whole "be good and you will get a spot", it's irrelevant. Assume everyone is 100% perfect at playing their class (I know it's impossible, but do it for argumentative sake.). Why would you bring more than 1 Pure DPS class to a raid if only 1 can apply all the Buffs/Debuffs you need? Don't need 2 mages applying AI, Scorch debuff, or making tables. Unless it's a 1 person buff (like 3% crit to 1 person), there is no reason to bring more than 1.

  19. #19

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    Quote Originally Posted by x32
    Why not take both? There are 25 spots in a raid and most raids already take a boomkin and where are you gonna find all those "equally geared/skilled moonkins" to replace all the mages and locks?
    Because I only have a spot for one more caster. And I'll get the moonkin from the same place I'll get all these awesome Mages and Warlocks people keep talking about.

    This whole idea of "YOU GET TO BRING SKILLED PLAYERS!!1!!" is something I can't wrap my head around. Perhaps I'm out of the loop but, in my experience, it usually has nothing to do with bad player with great buffs vs good player with shitty buffs. Guilds get saddled with bad players because that's usually all they can find on their server.

  20. #20

    Re: Why bring pure dps class to a raid in WotLK

    think about it this way, why not bring a pure dps class? sure you can flip a fury war into tank mode or a spriest into holy, but do you really expect to need 23 healers or 18 tanks? at the very most you will switch out maybe 2 or 3 people into other specs and now a days on average you already have much more than 2 or 3 non pure dps classes in any given raid. You will never need to look for more non pure dps classes simply because you will naturally have enough no matter what you do. There is no reason NOT to bring a pure dps class.

    unless your cool and raid with 16 boomkins, that's called being pro
    Patch changes quote from: Tigole
    --Many class changes. You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.

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