Boomkin > Everything in the game WHY!?

[yellowbiz]

Then let's remove all non-damaging abilities from you "pures". No more Fear, Sap and whatever..

[Ravenblade]

as long as people ignore the fact that 3 dps trees can´t in any case be the same as 1 dps 2 heal, 1 tank 2 dps trees .. and so on, there will allways be one guy, today it´s me, who´ll tell you, you´re a hybrid, get over it and as a hybrid you have more options so you should sacrifice something...

More options when it comes to roles, not more options when it comes to the role itself. Get over it.

[Leggomyeggo]

Really it's not that hard to see why a hybrid class should have slightly lower dps than a pure class. If you have 1 slot left in your raid and you get to choose from a mage or a boomkin then you choose the boomkin.

This becomes even MORE true when dualspecs are introduced. When you are doing a raid, often times some fights will be more healing intensive than others. Having that boomkin being able to switch to his heal spec and help heal that fight is VERY valuable.

Blizzard doesn't want hybrids behind pures by 50% like someone exaggerated. They said that if both players have equal skill and gear, the pure should win the dps race by 5% I believe. If the hybrid has better gear and/or is a better player than the pure, then the hybrid will win the dps race. My 5% stated above is likely to be off by quite a bit. By some of the WWS sheets I have seen, hybrids have been right up there with the pures. Sometimes they are higher, sometimes lower. They are always within about 2% though.

Is it really so bad to give up 2% dps when you get to fill in a dual roll of being DPS most of the time but being that goto guy for when we need that extra healer? You are getting the raid spot over the pure dps class. You offer options that a pure dps class will never be able to offer.

[Ravenblade]

I personally don't mind being behind by 5-10%, hell I have been at times ~40% behind some classes in TBC in some fights.The key is however the minmax factor, you know "You cannot DPS as high as I can because you are a hybrid. Your DPS is too low, sorry. No raid for you.". Something like that.

[Panoramixe]

I don't see why dual specs should mean we should do less dps.
It's exactly the same as swapping someone out for another player, you just lose less time with dual specs.

I wouldn't mind a 2-5% difference, but what people demand is usually 15-20% less.
I've tried to explain why a moonkin should be rougly equal to other classes, but I'm tired of it.

The same arguments as 15 pages back again, just read the damn thread and ask something new.

[Spots]

I'm not even gonna bother quoting what Spots have said ,
Aka the retard that has no clue wtf he's talkin about , I have been on beta since release and atm toppin the deeps charts with a 4/5 huntard around 5k on loatheb and 4-4.5k on the rest , my point is it's funny how boomkns follow me with 3.5k + deeps on every god damn fight .. Yea definately dude bein 2nd on dps charts as a fucki lazed chicken is not op at all.
On the other hand atm considerin game mechanics there is no way for Any other character to beat a skilled boomkin in a 1v1 situation , even tho some retards still don't understand the game is not based on 1fuckin1 but w.e

First: It's not nice to call other people retards just because you don't see it their way.

Second: Mind translating your post to English please? I find I'm having a hard time deciphering what you wrote.

If I got what you wrote, then you're a huntard. You're topping the charts. And the second on the DPS list is a moonkin. At 75-80% of your dps. While none of the other DPS are even close to that? Did I get it right?

So what yer saying is that either hunters are seriously OP and Moonkins moderately OP, or the rest of your raid is complete crap? Now which is it?
Numerous calculations have shown that mages, rogues, locks and hunters will outdps a moonkin with equal gear/skill. Warrs and DK's will also outdps them. If yours don't, then they either have bad gear or they suck. Don't blame the moonkin cause the others suck.

Third: Would you mind enlightening this poor retard as to what a skilled Moonkin does that makes him invincible?


Moonkin does 80% of your dps and he's OP? Dude even on live they do 80% of your dps. And you're calling me a retard?

Yes, I can see why you play a huntard.......

[Thnika]

As a rogue or hunter or mage or warlock (pure dps class) sure you don't get to be a healer or a tank (with an exception to some fights where they do tank) but at least you get to change specs and still be effective without having to have a whole new set of gear.  As a druid I have 6 different sets of gear: resto, pvp resto, boomkin, feral tank, feral dps, feral pvp.  and guess what im in the poor house.  having to enchant all that gear and gem it costed me a fortune. so before you say omg you can be whatever you want take that into account.

and btw if I have to pop out of form to heal someone my mana goes through the tubes and i end up pulling half my capable dps.

also since when did mages not bring anything to a raid? can you say int and num nums?

[Mayhem]

Then let's remove all non-damaging abilities from you "pures". No more Fear, Sap and whatever..

deal if you get your heal´s removed when dps specced

[Panoramixe]

People use the term "hybrid" in different ways. Blizzard uses hybrid to mean a class that can do dps or tank or heal (or all three). A paladin has an option if his dps sucks - tank or heal. He may not like the option, but at least he has one that is better than just rerolling. Rogues, mages, warlocks and hunters have no other options. If they are playing at the best of their ability and have the best gear they can get, and still aren't doing top dps, then there is nothing else they can do. Now, very few players play at the best of their ability, and the game does ask you to improve your ability over time. I'm not going to promise anyone that you'll be tops on the dps meter every time. I'm saying if all other things are equal, you will be. But the hybrids will be a lot closer than they used to be. The alternative is we have raids composed mostly of rogues, mages, warlocks and hunters, and we don't want that either.

This is the post you refer to I guess.
Nothing concrete in it really, it just says dps should be rougly equal with hybrids a lot closer than before.

[Panoramixe]

deal if you get your heal´s removed when dps specced

We already get our heals removed when in our dps form, does that count?

[Mayhem]

nope

[Deleted]

If you want my DPS to suffer because I'm able to respec, I want your DPS to suffer because you're able to reroll. End of period.

[Mayhem]

If you want my DPS to suffer because I'm able to respec, I want your DPS to suffer because you're able to reroll. End of period.

paying 50g or having to lvl 1-80 quite a difference don´t you think?

[Eilt]

ITT: A lot of cry babies who lost raid spots to moonkins, becuase they sucked at their class and with DPS being balanced (AKA no more PURE DPS classes) the moonkins who were forced to sit out until now are able to show that it was not skill they lacked, just balanced abilities that scale.

Most of you seemed to miss the patch notes (and almost every update on this site) where it mentioned that every spec will be raid viable, "Hybrids" as they used to be, were brought to raids for the BUFFS they gave the raid, and for the raid buffage, their DPS suffered.

Blizzard has given the same raid buffs that hybrids USED to give to ALL the other classes in some form. So, why would you bring an spriest or a moonkin if the buffs they provided the raid are not there and the DPS they offer is sub par? You wouldn't!!!!

So to rectify this Blizzard BALANCED all DPS classes to make them pretty damn close. In AE situations moonkins have some great abilities that make us dersirable for that, but on single targets we are not out DPSing entire raids (like hunters pre nerf).

In summation, get over it. If you lost your spot to a moonkin it is not becuase moonkins are OP it is because all DPS is balanced so the class you rolled will no longer get you into a raid, you have to actually know what you are doing and be decent at this game. If you are not, you will be replaced, and it will probably be what used to be a hybrid replacing you. Cause while we sat on the sidelines watching others raid we made sure that when we got the chance to raid we would prove what our spec/class was worth and not be forced to sit out again. Basically this is a super long l2play.

[Kallio]

Ok.

As a warlock who raided sunwell and is very active in pvp etc, and who rolls with a long-time boomkin as his 2v2 partner...


Quit
Fucking
Crying

Boomkins are fine. Locks need to be buffed a bit, but that's it. DPS will measure out. Just because a class has two other trees doesn't mean their third should be destroyed.
For fuck sake, are you all SERIOUSLY trying to make the argument that "Just because this class...at the expense of thousands of gold and a COMPLETE re-tooling and respecing, not to mention a complete change of playstyle COULD be a tank/healer, they should do less dps!" ? THINK ABOUT IT FOR A SECOND. THE ARGUMENT IS INHERENTLY FLAWED AND FOOLISH.

Boomkins are fine, and once things even out to 80, I think you'll realize that. Oh, and in pvp? Even with the slightly-nerfed state that locks are in right now, I slaughter all but the very experienced/skilled boomkins as a destro.

GG.

[Mayhem]

the buffs provided by some pure classes are mainly given to hybrids... plus having to specc less talent points into said buffs providing supirior effect then the originaly buff thus overwriting it... great

so no i don´t see your point, except the big l2play, but as i will never lose my spot to a moonkin i couldn´t care less about that part and doubt any person with some brain will answer your plain stupid rant against hm noobs? don´t know

btw. moonkins where allready realy good at dps, well ours was he was on par with everything except locks ofcourse but everyone knows that locks where OP thanks to the synergy mechanics

to the guy above me, you should rename your warlock to capslock... :

[Kallio]

the buffs provided by some pure classes are mainly given to hybrids... plus having to specc less talent points into said buffs providing supirior effect then the originaly buff thus overwriting it... great

so no i don´t see your point, except the big l2play, but as i will never lose my spot to a moonkin i couldn´t care less about that part and doubt any person with some brain will answer your plain stupid rant against hm noobs? don´t know

btw. moonkins where allready realy good at dps, well ours was he was on par with everything except locks ofcourse but everyone knows that locks where OP thanks to the synergy mechanics

to the guy above me, you should rename your warlock to capslock... :

Both brilliant and witty. If I wanted to continue on the same thread as your comment, this is where I criticize your use of grammar and spelling. But...I wont. So instead, I'll dismantle you by addressing issues.

1. You just made a blanket statement about debuffs. And it's a blanket statement without providing evidence to support you. Furthermore, there IS evidence to the contrary. *cough* Curse Of Elements *cough*

2. "Pure" dps classes have the availability to do dps in a variety of different ways via three different trees. I'd say that's treat enough. The reason a class does less dps is due to having HIGHER UTILITY. WHY do you think Rogues do top dps? Because they bring THE LEAST UTILITY. The fact that they have three dps trees has nothing to do with it. You know it, I know it.

3. Your raid sucked then. I had an extremely good boomkin in my raid. He pulled out excellent numbers (2k+) However, he was still beaten by rogues, locks, hunters and the occasional mage. (And this was with mages being...well...shitty in pve last expansion)

4. You're still making the argument that the way it is now will be the way it is at 80. An argument you can't make yet. (Unless you're in beta and are currently raiding IN beta, in which case I'll knock off this point)


Any way you look at it, it just seems like your panties are in a twist because a boomkin put up good numbers. *shrug*

[seph]

A little quote "

Balance

* Earth and Moon changed from 5 to 3 ranks and now increases spell damage taken by 4/9/13% for 12 seconds and increases your spell damage by 1/2/3%. (Old - Increased Arcane/Fire/Frost/Nature/Shadow damage by 3/5/8%)
* Eclipse now increases damage done by Wrath by 20% (up from 10%) and has a chance of increasing your critical strike chance with Starfire by 30%. (Up from 15%)
* Moonfury changed from 5 to 3 ranks. Now increases damage done by Starfire, Moonfire, and Wrath by 3/6/10%. (Old - 2/4/6/8/10%)


WHY BLIZZARD FFS WHY!? Nowdays boomkin do 3000 Dps and they still upgrade it , EHHH Tards from Blizz ;(

Moonkins are supposed to be nukers... Simple as that, if you're concerned about the changes because you're sick of getting pwn'd by them in pvp learn to survive their burst dmg. If you're worried about being out dps'd by a Moonkin in a raid figure out your rotation, and don't forget they're giving all casters an extra 5% spell crit and in most cases some extra haste.

The changes to the tree are to reduce the huge bloat of the Balance tree. So when the Moonkin specs they can have the talents that Blizzard put into the tree, and not have to skip all the fun talents or all of the dps talents.

[Kallio]

You have the most complicated DPS rotation in game?

Go play an affliction warlock

Corruption
CoA
Siphon life
Immolate
Unstable Affliction
Haunt
Shadow Bolt at >25%
Drain Soul at <25%
Life Tap
And finally Pet management.

You're bad. Affliction locks shouldn't use immolate. You either don't play affliction, or you're terrible.
Also..Drain Soul? Really? Come on.
And you should always be spamming shadowbolt in between dots, no matter what the health.

[Deleted]

Listen you boomkin sympatisers. let me rip apart your damn hybrid arguement you are all so fond of using vs the critisisers.

A hybrid is a class who can play 2 or maybe 3 roles in a raid tank,dps,heal etc.

BUT.. and this is the important part. a hybrid is able to perform the other roles other than ur mainrole and/or help to succed with utility.

shamans got totems, BL, other utility. (u know it if u know the game decently no point mentioning all)

but are they super top dps? no? because they got utility.

Boomkins got insane debuffing and utility like : 5 % crit aura imp with 3% haste. (read:rofldps increase casterwise)

Imp faerie fire which gives huge 3 % extra hit for physical attacks. thats 47,307 hit rating (read:big increase in dps for thoose not capped in hit, and if u got steady moonkin in your raids then u can use ur gemming for sumthing else)

and then we got elipse who increases arcane,frost,nature, shadow and fire spells by 13% on target.. (read:lets buff casters a bit more by over 10% of their potential for all casters)

+ this with your innervate (i dont see our moonkin going oom while being always top 5 if not top1)
+ combat rez.

Now unless you have been born on the street, you will hopefully see where im going with this.
With alll this utility... do u honestly think you should be top?

if a hunter,rogue,lock w/e pure class does lets say 12% dps total in raid.
then a boomkin should do no more than 8-9% idd say. ur debuffs buff others dmg by far over 10% so should be fair ur dmg goes down like 4-5 % total raid dmg. yes u will be low on dmg. BUT u will always get invited.

problem solved.