WotLK Mutilate PvP Build.

[neut]

I'd just like to hear peoples opinion about which build is the best (aimed for high end arena with matching gear), considering I haven't heard about the common "consensus" about proper builds yet.

(41/15/15) http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...00000000000000

(41/5/25) http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...20000000000000

(57/5/9) http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...00000000000000

Any comments/suggestions are more than welcomed!

[Shrapnelz]

All pretty good builds, myself ill be going with your


(41/5/25)
With afew modifications.


http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...20000000000000
Is the spec ill be using

Ill probably lose imp ambush, because in all honesty, i never use it and dont plan on it. Id rather get the + cp's with a cs for a quicker finishing move, or put a bleed on the target depending on the class (rogue, mage-silence).

And curious why you didn't opt for Focused attacks? I dropped 2 pts evis and 1 find weakness. I

Im playing a 41/5/15 on live atm, and I tried the one you posted down the assassination tree, then tried the focused attacks. It made all the world of difference.
Im getting muts off faster, which means more finishing moves, which means more +25 energy from your Relentless strikes.

And I went for + stealth. What good is imp ambush if your pulled out with a sap is my reasoning there.

Lemme know whatcah think.

[neut]

Yeah, I have to agree about imp ambush being akwerd. My logic behind it is that you obviously wont open with ambush, but having an almost guaranteed crit ambush as a "finisher" sounds rather decent, although I can easily see myself trading it for something else.

I have to admit I haven't tried focused attacks, I played mutilate for a long time now and I don't really have problems with energy management as it is, but as you said, quicker mutilates, more energy, more control and so forth, so I'll surely look into that.

About MoD, I have to disagree. While playing 2s without a healer, getting the opener on the opposing rogue could be game breaking (and it is, quite a lot of times), but that's also about the only comp it plays an important role, and only against other mutilate rogues (you'll have heightened senses and MoD as subtlety obviously, and mutilate with both MoD and heightened senses is just plain wrong, considering you'll have to drop duel wield spec to get them both).

[Sensual Muffin]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...00000000000000

here you go, this should be pretty amazing. just wait and see.

[Xzizt]

Im playing atm with this specc :

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecoeMoiroIzZ0xZebbb

and I like it alot with the energy regen you get its quite nice..
Sure i sacrifise Master Poisoner but Focused attacks was worth those three points instead

But at 80:

Something like this

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...00000000000000

[neut]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...00000000000000

here you go, this should be pretty amazing. just wait and see.

1/2 Deadly Brew means you can't rely on a single shiv for applying crippling which is pretty bad.
1/3 Ruthlessness without initiative could and will easily lead to cp issues.

And on top of that, giving up on all of that and 4% of passive damage for Imp. Spring is simply wrong. I can see combat being decently viable for PvP, but mutilate is first and foremost putting a lot of damage and pressure while having a lot of control via a lot of combo points, while mobility is left behind.

[Sensual Muffin]

With Seal Fate there's no way cp generation will be a problem... and even with 3 points in Ruthlessness thats only a 60% chance in generating ONE cp, on a finisher no less, so that's the least of my worries. As for 1/2 Deadly Brew, a 50% chance is not bad for one point, though it's flexible and points could be moved around if you so wished.

As for Imp. Sprint... PvP is ALL about mobility.

[neut]

With Seal Fate there's no way cp generation will be a problem... and even with 3 points in Ruthlessness thats only a 60% chance in generating ONE cp, on a finisher no less, so that's the least of my worries. As for 1/2 Deadly Brew, a 50% chance is not bad for one point, though it's flexible and points could be moved around if you so wished.

As for Imp. Sprint... PvP is ALL about mobility.

You're simply wrong.

And even if I don't choose to argue ruthlessness viability as mutilate, the 1 point/20% you do put in it becomes completely obsolete. You should never count on 20%, especially for something you find not that important.

50% Deadly Brew means you'll sometimes have to shiv a couple of times, wasting ~38 energy and GCD each time, it simply beats the purpose. This might not be so crucial playing against bad opponents, but it might cost you a lot eventually against better people, especially when you spam shiv when you "think" you're right near someone and it just wont land :P

Imp. Sprint could be nice, and yes, mobility is very important (although I cant see how you put mobility and mutilate in the same sentence), but most certainly that if you need to go through precision (when you'll already be "PvP hit" capped, we're talking here about high end with high end gear, and deflection (?), while sacrificing a whole lot, it becomes far from being worthy.

[Sensual Muffin]

With Ruthlessness, you are exactly correct with your assumption as I wouldn't necessarily rely on it with one point invested at a 20% chance to generate a single combo point, I only used it as a filler to get to the next tier of the tree, nothing more. Please tell me though, how else would you distribute your talent points in the first two tiers to get to the tier three Assassination talents?

Just to let you know, PvP differs from PvE in that it's not all about sacrificing defensive abilities for talents that focus on raw DPS output. Take a look at Frost Mages, SL/SL Warlocks, Disc. Priests, etc. Since you haven't surmised already, the reason PvP gear gives up other stats for Resilience and extra Stamina is because PvP is ALL about survival and outlasting your foe. Thus, Deflection and Imp. Sprint are a must as they improve survivability. Deflection: 6% increased chance to parry... Please tell me why this is not a necessary PvP talent?

I could continue to crit you with my wall of text, but I'll give you this to think about also; why do you think the most common Rogue builds in Season one and two were combat? maybe because these builds offered Imp. Sprint, Deflection, Lightning Reflexes and Nerves of Steel? Talents such as these proved to be effective and continue to thrive even after the implementation of new talent trees. You shouldn't run your mouth if you don't know what you're talking about... rofl.

[Xigris]

With Ruthlessness, you are exactly correct with your assumption as I wouldn't necessarily rely on it with one point invested at a 20% chance to generate a single combo point, I only used it as a filler to get to the next tier of the tree, nothing more. Please tell me though, how else would you distribute your talent points in the first two tiers to get to the tier three Assassination talents?

Just to let you know, PvP differs from PvE in that it's not all about sacrificing defensive abilities for talents that focus on raw DPS output. Take a look at Frost Mages, SL/SL Warlocks, Disc. Priests, etc. Since you haven't surmised already, the reason PvP gear gives up other stats for Resilience and extra Stamina is because PvP is ALL about survival and outlasting your foe. Thus, Deflection and Imp. Sprint are a must as they improve survivability. Deflection: 6% increased chance to parry... Please tell me why this is not a necessary PvP talent?

I could continue to crit you with my wall of text, but I'll give you this to think about also; why do you think the most common Rogue builds in Season one and two were combat? maybe because these builds offered Imp. Sprint, Deflection, Lightning Reflexes and Nerves of Steel? Talents such as these proved to be effective and continue to thrive even after the implementation of new talent trees. You shouldn't run your mouth if you don't know what you're talking about... rofl.

Im pretty sure that most rogues were combat is s1/s2 because daggers sucked and ShS was stealth only. Also, what makes mages, locks and priests survivable is Ice Block/teleport, soul link, and pain supression respectively. Insinuating that Deflection is somehow comparable to those is delusional.

[neut]

With Ruthlessness, you are exactly correct with your assumption as I wouldn't necessarily rely on it with one point invested at a 20% chance to generate a single combo point, I only used it as a filler to get to the next tier of the tree, nothing more. Please tell me though, how else would you distribute your talent points in the first two tiers to get to the tier three Assassination talents?

Just to let you know, PvP differs from PvE in that it's not all about sacrificing defensive abilities for talents that focus on raw DPS output. Take a look at Frost Mages, SL/SL Warlocks, Disc. Priests, etc. Since you haven't surmised already, the reason PvP gear gives up other stats for Resilience and extra Stamina is because PvP is ALL about survival and outlasting your foe. Thus, Deflection and Imp. Sprint are a must as they improve survivability. Deflection: 6% increased chance to parry... Please tell me why this is not a necessary PvP talent?

I could continue to crit you with my wall of text, but I'll give you this to think about also; why do you think the most common Rogue builds in Season one and two were combat? maybe because these builds offered Imp. Sprint, Deflection, Lightning Reflexes and Nerves of Steel? Talents such as these proved to be effective and continue to thrive even after the implementation of new talent trees. You shouldn't run your mouth if you don't know what you're talking about... rofl.

You're pretty much speaking out of your ass while not even paying attention to my arguments, so before stopping;

Yes, combat maces used to be the common build, but please grasp this; I'm talking about WotLK, and I'm talking about mutilate, not about 3 season ago, and certainly not about a combat build. You, comparing deflection and Imp. Sprint for mage mobility, or deflection for warlock or priest survivability is just stupid, especially when we're talking about a mutilate build? have you ever played mutilate beyond 1500? seriously?

I'd go on but I stopped paying attention at nerves of steel.

You gave a horrible spec, that is all.

[Sisceria]

Good rogues use cooldowns to survive while minmaxing for burst damage.

The best rogues in seasons 3/4 were in 75% PVE gear with ~200 resi.

[EvilHomer15]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue

• I will find rogues before they find me
• all CDs refreshed

[Dhaern]

*EDITED*

all builds are shit,no doubt best specs are:

PVE build (lvl 80): http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0x...boIzAo0tm0hZxb ---> with instant poison in MH, deadly poison OH (you must use 2 fast daggers for more fast applications of venoms and more energy regeneration with focused attacks = more DPS)

PVP build (lvl 80): http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=fhx...czZ0xZebfbh0db ---> also you can quit 2 points in imp. kidney shot and add 2 points in blood spatter (not recomendable), with wound poison MH, mind-numbling poison OH (you must use 2 slow daggers for more max dmg = more burst dmg)

[Sisceria]

People need to stop touting focused attacks in PVP builds. The playstyle of muti is "blow your energy and GTFO until you have energy again". Without a lot of survivability talents you just can't risk staying in white attacking to regen your energy, and with prep (and perhaps shadowmeld) you should never be worried about blowing a vanish early.

[Xigris]

all builds are shit,no doubt best specs are:

PVP build (lvl 80): http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0e...szZ0xZebfbh0db ---> also you can quit 2 points in heightened senses(0/2) and add 2 points more to focused attacks(3/3), with wound poison MH, mind-numbling poison OH (you must use 2 slow daggers for more max dmg = more burst dmg)

Your 'best spec' for pvp takes 3/3 find weakness yet 0/2 Murder. Why would you pass up a talent that gives you 2% damage to all damage per talent point, yet take a talent that gives 2% damage to abilities per talent point? It makes no sense.

[piratskepp]

all builds are shit,no doubt best specs are:

PVE build (lvl 80): http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0x...boIzAo0tm0hZxb ---> with instant poison in MH, deadly poison OH (you must use 2 fast daggers for more fast applications of venoms and more energy regeneration with focused attacks = more DPS)

PVP build (lvl 80): http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0e...szZ0xZebfbh0db ---> also you can quit 2 points in heightened senses(0/2) and add 2 points more to focused attacks(3/3), with wound poison MH, mind-numbling poison OH (you must use 2 slow daggers for more max dmg = more burst dmg)

You must rethink and rework both speccs. They are flawed.

Focused attacks aren't only bad in pvp, they are truly inefficient. And going 1/3 in FA is beyond stupid, sorry, it is.. Heightened senses is not worth dropping for anything. HS = getting opener or having the same chance as the oponent. Not having it = giving away opener or the same chance. Not worth dropping it.

Ruthlessness has been debated too much lately, I believe it is scrub, really scrub as muti with seal fate, end of story. Evis or blood splatter give way way more than ruthlessness, if it was 100% it could be argued, but with 60%, hell no.

Your sub tree looks fine, no complaints, but your asstree needs rework. Are you playing with a healer or a dps? which bracket? I think you need to choose either imp KS or QR depending on your team. I'm only discussing this from a 2on2 / 3on3 perspective btw. Dps comp, go KS, healing comp, go QR, not both. Put 3/3 evis or 2/2 blood splatter instead of ruthlessness and put KS/QR points into Murder ( I really do not understand why you don't have Murder in your build. ) put the talent point in focused attack either in EA or Bloodplatter, 1 point in any of those are better than 1 point in FA anyway, 33% chance to gain 2 energy / crit? fucking waste. You get like what, on 20 hits, 4 crits, which is 3 energy. resilliance = 20% critchance = 2 crits on 10 hits = 4 hits on 20 hits, 33% of 4 is 1,32 hits that gives energy which is 2,5 energy, that can't happen anyway so we are talking 2 or 4 energy on 20 hits. 20 hits ( no snd or haste on gear or other factors, like totem ) takes how long? lets say you have 1.8 in both hands. takes 18 sec to put out 20 hits from MH and offhand. So all in all, you have 2 or 4 more energy / 20 seconds. Thats the fucking shit right there, too good not to specc! Go go pvp talent! Becouse you will ofc have 18 seconds of pure uptime on your target in pvp?

I'm only talking of your second specc btw, becouse the first with Hfb is fucking fail in pvp. Haven't all rogues figured out that by now. HFB is shit.

[Tekel]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...20000000000000

Last time I was playing a rogue was when I was killing npcs like rag and nef. It's sad to see so many current rogue users post such horrible specs.

[Dhaern]

You must rethink and rework both speccs. They are flawed.

Focused attacks aren't only bad in pvp, they are truly inefficient. And going 1/3 in FA is beyond stupid, sorry, it is.. Heightened senses is not worth dropping for anything. HS = getting opener or having the same chance as the oponent. Not having it = giving away opener or the same chance. Not worth dropping it.

Ruthlessness has been debated too much lately, I believe it is scrub, really scrub as muti with seal fate, end of story. Evis or blood splatter give way way more than ruthlessness, if it was 100% it could be argued, but with 60%, hell no.

Your sub tree looks fine, no complaints, but your asstree needs rework. Are you playing with a healer or a dps? which bracket? I think you need to choose either imp KS or QR depending on your team. I'm only discussing this from a 2on2 / 3on3 perspective btw. Dps comp, go KS, healing comp, go QR, not both. Put 3/3 evis or 2/2 blood splatter instead of ruthlessness and put KS/QR points into Murder ( I really do not understand why you don't have Murder in your build. ) put the talent point in focused attack either in EA or Bloodplatter, 1 point in any of those are better than 1 point in FA anyway, 33% chance to gain 2 energy / crit? fucking waste. You get like what, on 20 hits, 4 crits, which is 3 energy. resilliance = 20% critchance = 2 crits on 10 hits = 4 hits on 20 hits, 33% of 4 is 1,32 hits that gives energy which is 2,5 energy, that can't happen anyway so we are talking 2 or 4 energy on 20 hits. 20 hits ( no snd or haste on gear or other factors, like totem ) takes how long? lets say you have 1.8 in both hands. takes 18 sec to put out 20 hits from MH and offhand. So all in all, you have 2 or 4 more energy / 20 seconds. Thats the fucking shit right there, too good not to specc! Go go pvp talent! Becouse you will ofc have 18 seconds of pure uptime on your target in pvp?

I'm only talking of your second specc btw, becouse the first with Hfb is fucking fail in pvp. Haven't all rogues figured out that by now. HFB is shit.

Yes, edited my PVP build. Now this is good.

[ArcticBlade]

Damnnit, Tekel, you stole my build! >

PvP and point for point, my build is gonna be exactly that