Imp. Vampiric Embrace

[Hernandez]

Improved Vampiric Embrace now increases the healing received from Vampiric Embrace by 33/66%. (Up from 5/10%)

Does this mean, that the healing recieved is increased up to 88% or just by 66% of the base 15%, so ~25% in sum?

[Natarumah]

Without Improved VE, you heal 15% to yourself and 3% to your party.
With Improved VE, you heal 25% to yourself and 5% to your party.

[Cleir]

why put 33/66% when the old text was totally understandable

"increases the amount healed by an additional 5/10%" easy!

[Lostprophet]

Because its 5/10% for urself and 1/2% for Party.. so they wrote 33/66% on both which is understandable as well

[Ghrim]

Since i read the patch notes i knew someone would ask this stupid question.....

[Hernandez]

Because its 5/10% for urself and 1/2% for Party.. so they wrote 33/66% on both which is understandable as well

Ok, that makes sense, thanks

[artan]

In others words ..

RIP ve

[Old Coot]

Does this mean, that the healing recieved is increased up to 88%

I know its not that, but that would be so sweet if something like that accidently went through...till they nerfed it the following week. But what a week that would be.

[Ntrails]

Personally I think it makes imp VE a talent not needed for raiding and frees up 2 points. Excellent.

[Kelesti]

Personally I think it makes imp VE a talent not needed for raiding and frees up 2 points. Excellent.

Call me a nub all you want, but Vampiric Embrace is still healing going out, and with VT going raidwide replenishment, VE remaining party-based, it's all the reason to put the Shadow Priest in the tank group for one added "HoT" (even if it's a fake HoT). Where else would you put the points in a typical [http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=050320013000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000320223051223012325150301351]14/0/57[/url] Raid PvE build?

And just a note: a Holy Paladin's Concentration Aura provides 50% [Improved] reduction, and doesn't stack with Imp Shadowform. So that's 2 talent points for 15%, because the other 50's covered anyways.

[meowmeow]

Call me a nub all you want, but Vampiric Embrace is still healing going out, and with VT going raidwide replenishment, VE remaining party-based, it's all the reason to put the Shadow Priest in the tank group for one added "HoT" (even if it's a fake HoT). Where else would you put the points in a typical [http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=050320013000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000320223051223012325150301351]14/0/57[/url] Raid PvE build?

And just a note: a Holy Paladin's Concentration Aura provides 50% [Improved] reduction, and doesn't stack with Imp Shadowform. So that's 2 talent points for 15%, because the other 50's covered anyways.

heh, nub. (you said call me a nub). i find it a stupid idea, sorry feels to "nubish" to "put shadowpriest in tank group so the tank won't die" (ye like that'll save him 'sure'). you can do it sure. we prefered to put casters/mana users in the same group and melee's at the same group, still - mana tide, hymm and afew more stayed group wide.

that isn't a good shadow spec. from my shadow experiance on beta i didn't need the meditation and didn't feel different without it in raid (in 5m's i did need the meditation) so my recomending to a shadow PvE priest that mainly raids to think more of "improved shadow form" and 3/3 in threat reduction over the meditation, simpley because if you have improved spirit tap you will have enough mana regen (i tested this and can confirm: in a raid with raid buffs i didn't have mana problems without meditation, at all). that was one of the funniest specs though after so many talks of shadow priests being able to skip discipline, without any knowledge but only anoying letter colors, are you even really a priest or just troll spaming with greenish letters. It is sad to see someone still believeing meditation is a must for a PvE raider shadowpriest, when its not - and was already talked about over and over again. its even sadder spending 3 points in a un-needed talent over - threat reduction.

and just another not: relaying on having a paladin with improved holy conc - 1, from what i inspected on beta, most holy pve paladins (the ones that raided as healers and not pvped as healers) didnt have this talent, 2. we used two paladins, retri aura and dev aura. 3. they are nabs and they forget to use their auras. but the most weird thing about what you wrote:
taking a Un - Nessecary talent over not relaying on a thing to prevent pushback - and you choose? more mana regen although i don't have mana problems! i must say "smart", "real smart". i would recomend a real shadow priest (as i said u sound more like a troll), to take improved shadow form, it is SO good for PvE, and also to take 3 talent points in reducing threat, i had threat problems, and no mana problems. Relaying on someone else that might not be there is not a smart move. in addition - improved shadow form is not only good fr PvE raiding, but also is usefull for 5m, BG's and random world PvP. Are you sure you'll always have the aura there ? (i think not)

as for dispersion - its really a choise. atm i didn't find it nessecary for PvE, but it was fun.

[Lostprophet]

who told u that conc and imp SF doesnt stack?....i have to check it first but im quite sure they stack as thay did all over BC to other similar effects..

[Anglarana]

Oke dude you do suck at talents.

You need 3 shd weaving and 3 pain and suffering no matter what.
You need to stack shd weaving asap to be able to put your dots on at maximum dmg output, you can not afford to loose 1 shdweaving (or more if you got crappy luck) and that way cant put your dots on.

You will need 3 pain and suffering too just to make sure your pain will always be up at the maximum dmg output.

For example. I start with VT then a mind blast, followed by SWeath and finish it off with a mind flay as an opening rotation on bosses and long fights. You will now have 5 shd weaving maximizing the dmg doen by pain.

Now i make sure i have the most extra dmg increasing stuff active for pain. Personally, at this time i have my trinket running, a proc from imp spirit tap, my MH exalted ring will most likely have procced as well. I pop a destruction potion to further increase my total spellpower. I think i am around 2000 spellpower now and then I put my SWain on the target, and as long as i keep refreshing it with mind flay the 2000 spellpower will still be implemented in the pain dmg done even though i do not have that number at that moment (probably around 1500 / 1600 ish now). Thats the major reason why you do not want 2 points in pain and suffering. if you are doing a moving fight and you barely have time to refresh mind flay due to that, you do not want to fail at refreshing, dropping the dmg from SW;pain to reapply it with only 1500 / 1600 spellpower.

And i highly recommend imp shdform in the xpack too after level 75. At this level we will get our massive AOE spell and you dont want to see the castbar knocked back just because you got some dmg. And with this i highly recommend veiled shadows as well. Reduces fade cd and shd fiend cd as well.

This is the shd build i currently have at level 70:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...10325150301351

And at the moment I am not 100% sure about the level 80 build, seeing I have no clue what amount of threat we will generate at level 80.

If threat does seem to be a huge problem for us:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...10325152301351

If threat does not seem to be a problem at all: (only the 3 points in shd focus are relocated)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...12325152301351

I have even been thinking about a pvp build for level 80, but I am not a pvp player at all so that build is probably not the best you could get:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...10025152321351

[Anglarana]

Protip before saying I suck, I did not say 'don't take them' I just said they are not 100% needed. I am not even sure that SWP keeps all the spell power buffs when they run out in the same way you cannot stack a massive spell power earth shield on someone but I'm not going home to test that atm, so assuming you are right...

Maths...

Assume 100% hit

With 2/3 you have a 66% chance to refresh weaving/SWP every time, assuming you cast 4 mind flays in 18 seconds you have a (0.33^4)*100 = 1.19% chance of not refreshing.

This means that in 1/(100/1.19) = 1 of every 84 times you cast swp you wont refresh it and 1 in 84 times your weaving will drop.

Therefore 2/3 sounds reasonable to me

However if for whatever reason you cannot cast 4 mind flays (reflect sheild, using dispersion) and can only get 2 mind flays off you have a 10% chance of it dropping.

1 flay = 33%
2 flays = 10%
3 flays = 3.60%
4 flays = 1.19%
5 flays (uber haste) = 0.39%

If you are correct then 3/3 pain of suffering is very very nice but it still isn't needed. I'll reply further after I do testing.

You do not have to test it, at the moment it just works that way. I have tested it in several ways in both BT / MH and SWP raids. Both with full shd weaving and without shdweaving during the entire instance and the dmg doen by it according to my recount is hugely different. From around 1k ticks they dropped to 600dmg ticks or so. which is a huge amount if you see this over the entire nights raid.

And as i said you will have a lot of fights which will require you to move around a lot. (felmyst phases for instance). And you will hardly cast 4 mind flays in 18 seconds. you need to keep VT and DP up at all times as well as MB every cd and I defo use Sw:death at every occasion as well, seeing they are 6k instant crits on my target atm. This means you will not have that much time left to keep casting mindflay as well, seeing haste is not good for us anymore if you look at crit rating.

Prior for us at 80 will therefore be: get hitcapped --> stack as much crit and spellpower.
If i had to regem all my gear now, which I am not gonna do, this means 5 crit & 6 spellpower in yellow sockets instead of haste. And in red sockets I would keep my 12 spellpower gems. Blue is still crap and I hope there will be something more usefull for us. (I am not sure if there is a 6 spellpower and 5 intellect gem atm, but that would do perfect otherwise). Also for the socket gem, this could change. currently i am using 14 spellpower and 2% increased intellect, but I am thinking of getting the increased crit one.

Of course all of these will be the better version of the ones we have now :P, but I do not yet know them out of my head.

[Ntrails]

2% extra healing on the tank from VE is not worth 2 talents. At all. As said above - with 2500DPS it is 50 extra HPS. So it is only useful for self heal now realistically. Even the 150 HPS for party seems worthless to me and not worth the GCD.

Without SW why bother with VE at all. Self heal seems far too rarely of need.

As for 2/3 - no thanks. 10% chance of dropping off every time the fight is 'non-standard' is crap.

Mind flay is no longer giving 3 stacks of weaving, yes?

2 parts threat reduction should be fine without VE doing significant healing.

Imp shadowform is NOT optional in raids. Sorry.

[Nezoia]

I'm still going with Improved Vampiric Embrace, I'm 100% sure it'll be made of winsauce for Loatheb in Naxxramas.

Death & Taxes 4man kill anyone?

[Worshaka]

Because its 5/10% for urself and 1/2% for Party.. so they wrote 33/66% on both which is understandable as well

I still feel the wording of some of the talents, spells, abilities is very poor and this particular wording could be done better. I see why it's worded this way but it still a poor way to do it.

Increases the effect of VE by 5/10% to yourself and 1/2% to your party is the wording I would have chosen.

[coolgk]

Imp. VE is for PVP

[Ntrails]

You can keep saying that and I can keep discarding it, I will most likely take it but you need to define 'needed'. Situational abilities are not needed only very useful.

Knock back is DPS loss. Plenty of knockback exists. 35% more DPS on knockback fights is a nobrainer. In my humble (?) opinion ^_^

[Devia]

Protip before saying I suck, I did not say 'don't take them' I just said they are not 100% needed. I am not even sure that SWP keeps all the spell power buffs when they run out in the same way you cannot stack a massive spell power earth shield on someone but I'm not going home to test that atm, so assuming you are right...

Maths...

Assume 100% hit

With 2/3 you have a 66% chance to refresh weaving/SWP every time, assuming you cast 4 mind flays in 18 seconds you have a (0.33^4)*100 = 1.19% chance of not refreshing.

This means that in 1/(100/1.19) = 1 of every 84 times you cast swp you wont refresh it and 1 in 84 times your weaving will drop.

Therefore 2/3 sounds reasonable to me

However if for whatever reason you cannot cast 4 mind flays (reflect sheild, using dispersion) and can only get 2 mind flays off you have a 10% chance of it dropping.

1 flay = 33%
2 flays = 10%
3 flays = 3.60%
4 flays = 1.19%
5 flays (uber haste) = 0.39%

If you are correct then 3/3 pain of suffering is very very nice but it still isn't needed. I'll reply further after I do testing.

EDIT - ok after looking at sp.com, swp ticks higher for the whole fight if you wait for 5/5 shadow weaving, however your trinkets/pots drop off as soon as you refresh with mind flay when they run out. This leads people to think the 5/5 SW needed thing is a bug and will be fixed anyway.

You are stupid if you think you don't need 3/3 pain and suffering. Period. Besides, at level 80, what other talent would you spend that 1 point on anyway?

You say that 1 in 84 times your MF will not refresh your SW:P. First of all, your math doesn't make sense. 1/84 = .01 = 1%. 1% =/= 33%. If you cast 84 MF's, approximately 27 of those WILL NOT refresh your SW:P. That's a lot.

Not only that, but even though you have a 2/3 chance to refresh your SW:P so every third MF will not refresh it, right? WRONG. Blizzard's chance system is a random roll. So, you could have it be like this(1 = MF refreshes, 0 = MF does not):

1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 1

See that? 10/15 of those MF's refreshed SW:P, which equals 66%. But look at that...3 in a row DID NOT. Therefore, you have just lost your SW:P which not only means that you have to waste 1.5 seconds recasting it instead of something else, but you also lose mana, and whatever dps you lost from the spell power of the first one. If this happens 3 times in a 10 minute fight then that's a pretty big dps loss, not to mention a greater possibility of you going OOM.

Why would you ever want to do that? It's just 1 talent point, and there's nothing better to spend that last point on.

This goes the same for Shadow Weaving, and even worse with only 2/3 of both of them.