About Warlock pvp problems

[lrs078]

From an ex gladiator rogue, a DK, and a feral druid....locks are by far the easiest HK now. The rogue isn't even bothering to kill hte pet he just kills the lock. Most of the time doesn't even need stuns given his burst capacity. Its not a rogue problem, or a melee problem, or even a gearing issue. We are a hard counter to no class and nearly every class/spec is a counter to us w' many of htem being hard counters. At one time we were OP but never to the extent other classes are right now vs us. Certainly not for as long. Whatever OP debt we had has long since been paid. Its not a skill issue if you are chain stun/cc'd and burst down from 100% to dead in a couple seconds no matter your spec or gear. There seems to be lingering prejudice (judging by the ignorant trolls) and selectively blind eye blizz has to the problem. GC has this big thread on the issue and poof....nothing. Oh, I forgot...proposed demonology nerfs that wont go live. Am I the only one feeling like the chick the dude just told "don't worry I'll pull out"

One thing is certain....we are certainly being f*cked.

[Deleted]

i rerolled from warlock to moonkin when i switched to another realm. (i had a 70er pvp druid on my old realm) and even i get facerolled by most melees within a few seconds.

i feel with you locks =(

i dont get why blizz removed bonus armor on items..
my lvl 70 druid had 18k armor pre 3.0. now i'm running around with aprox. 15k on my lvl 80 -.-"

I've two-shotted sl-locks with my warrior... untill something changes you won't see my playing my lock...

[Deleted]

Warlock pvp is a joke at the moment and mine is shelved as well until things change. Sad though because it has been my main for 3 years and I have done a lot of stuff with it but there is no way I'm going to play something that is completely broken. It simply is no fun and only makes me frustrated and angry.

It's a world of difference when I play my DK, so much fun and I have very good survivability but the thing I like most is not being focused by everyone and his mother all the time like it was on my lock.

If things don't change very soon for locks I doubt I'll e back, more likely my DK will be my new main.

Right now in pvp, a lock has the life expectancy of a hemophiliac in a barbed wire factory.

[lexter]

Don't wait for blizzard to fix those pvp-issues.
Get yourself a copy of GTA IV.
It's much more fun than PvP at it's current state.

[TerryBogard]

Im not just going to reroll (locks are still very good for PvE) but I will have to find a new PvP toon. I will try a few 2s teams and see if there is any playability with the right set up and partner. But yeah, locks are the red headed step child of Arenas

[Ofmanv]

I try to be objective about warlock's state in pvp but I do have seriously contemplate making a new pvp toon if I want to be competitive. I've tried arenas already having some of my season 5 gear from vault and it's not pretty. Melee just drop me in seconds even with my healer.

I hate to have to reroll though. I've worked hard on this toon. 84,000 lifetime HKs, so many achievements and a reputation on my server for being one of the top locks in BC.

[Jashin]

my gripe:

no amount of gear should supplement broken base mechanics,

that's just lazy development.

so, all of this "well, you should have over 9000 resil before you notice an inconsistency" is a failure's logic.

[TerryBogard]

my gripe:

no amount of gear should supplement broken base mechanics,

that's just lazy development.

so, all of this "well, you should have over 9000 resil before you notice an inconsistency" is a failure's logic.

Plus every class receives the same benefit from resilience. Its not like locks can get more than any other class. Therefore unbalanced before resil should equal unbalanced after resil. Just using the basic principles of logic.

[Darkengelion]

Ok, so far I've only seen lots of complaining and not a single bit of faith in your own class...what is wrong with you people or is this just a forum to post when your pissed off or something???

For example...battlegrounds arent really pvp...dont take your experiences from there, for 90% of time atleast you will be facing numerous opponents, rarely you will get a chance to duel or so, or if you do some lucky healer runs to aid the poor opponent or something similiar...In those situations Im just enjoying I know I would have won without the other one interrupting...this has happened dozens of times.

Take a moment now...even you Terry-whatever who think you are the creator of Warlocks or something...yes you have some good points but you've fallen to the same apathywell as all the others. Why give up? Why don't you use your time bit better and think and figure out what you could have done differently? Hell, when I see a situation I wont be afraid to use soulshards to prevail.

There is allways a way to go around the problems...think about it for a second...If you have problems with melee classess(not talking about rogues here) maybe you shouldn't be close to em. I really dont find problems against warriors, hunters or deathknights...paladins are the same when their precious bubble wears off...that is same as dead.

In s3 I played mostly with a boomkin cause it was fun. It was not the easiest setup to go on with as those who have played same setup knows. But hell, that setup has ultimate cc rotation... Numerous times we have met this so feared druid + warrior and most of the times the warrior went down before the druid even noticed what was going on. And no, our opponents werent noobs..they were usually better geared. We never went to the top teams just cause our setup had so little chances to beat priest+rogue teams...I believe theres no reason to start explaining why not

I can also state that im not a average player...but yes...im better than average and worse than the best atleast. Atleast I've never given up, never...and never will do. Rerolling to something else only cause you cant prevail in some situations as good as you would like to. Ive been warlock since the game was released and nothing will get me to reroll, only real class for me.

So why don't we just wait a bit...for like february and look then how the things look like?

Flame mine comments if you want, I dont care a bit...just hope some of you do realise whats the life like...

Playing games should make you happy, not pissed. If you lose...improve yourself or uninstall the game and do something else...

you cant possibly think that the game is all about winning and losing...narrowminded thinking. If that is what you want go play some "one handed thiefs" or roulette, black jack...etc.

We got problems...so do every other class...even rouges...

[TerryBogard]

Ok, so far I've only seen lots of complaining and not a single bit of faith in your own class...what is wrong with you people or is this just a forum to post when your pissed off or something???

For example...battlegrounds arent really pvp...dont take your experiences from there, for 90% of time atleast you will be facing numerous opponents, rarely you will get a chance to duel or so, or if you do some lucky healer runs to aid the poor opponent or something similiar...In those situations Im just enjoying I know I would have won without the other one interrupting...this has happened dozens of times.

Take a moment now...even you Terry-whatever who think you are the creator of Warlocks or something...yes you have some good points but you've fallen to the same apathywell as all the others. Why give up? Why don't you use your time bit better and think and figure out what you could have done differently? Hell, when I see a situation I wont be afraid to use soulshards to prevail.

Actually if you look on other threads in the Warlock Forum you will see that I am testing out different build for arenas. So please do some research next time before you call someone out.

[Aayron]

For the sake of easy numbers lets say its 30% reduction from melee damage with Empowered Demon (which SL/SL could not take pre WotLK). 15k damage non mitigated becomes 12k. Then of that 12k 20% is diverted to the pet which brings it down to 9800 damage. Thats a big difference than the 54% reduction you quoted which would have brought the damage down to 7k

In what world is 12k 70% of 15k?

15000 * .7 = 10500
10500 * .8 = 8400

[Coronius]

Ok, so far I've only seen lots of complaining and not a single bit of faith in your own class...what is wrong with you people or is this just a forum to post when your pissed off or something???

For example...battlegrounds arent really pvp...dont take your experiences from there, for 90% of time atleast you will be facing numerous opponents, rarely you will get a chance to duel or so, or if you do some lucky healer runs to aid the poor opponent or something similiar...In those situations Im just enjoying I know I would have won without the other one interrupting...this has happened dozens of times.

Take a moment now...even you Terry-whatever who think you are the creator of Warlocks or something...yes you have some good points but you've fallen to the same apathywell as all the others. Why give up? Why don't you use your time bit better and think and figure out what you could have done differently? Hell, when I see a situation I wont be afraid to use soulshards to prevail.

There is allways a way to go around the problems...think about it for a second...If you have problems with melee classess(not talking about rogues here) maybe you shouldn't be close to em. I really dont find problems against warriors, hunters or deathknights...paladins are the same when their precious bubble wears off...that is same as dead.

In s3 I played mostly with a boomkin cause it was fun. It was not the easiest setup to go on with as those who have played same setup knows. But hell, that setup has ultimate cc rotation... Numerous times we have met this so feared druid + warrior and most of the times the warrior went down before the druid even noticed what was going on. And no, our opponents werent noobs..they were usually better geared. We never went to the top teams just cause our setup had so little chances to beat priest+rogue teams...I believe theres no reason to start explaining why not

I can also state that im not a average player...but yes...im better than average and worse than the best atleast. Atleast I've never given up, never...and never will do. Rerolling to something else only cause you cant prevail in some situations as good as you would like to. Ive been warlock since the game was released and nothing will get me to reroll, only real class for me.

So why don't we just wait a bit...for like february and look then how the things look like?

Flame mine comments if you want, I dont care a bit...just hope some of you do realise whats the life like...

Playing games should make you happy, not pissed. If you lose...improve yourself or uninstall the game and do something else...

you cant possibly think that the game is all about winning and losing...narrowminded thinking. If that is what you want go play some "one handed thiefs" or roulette, black jack...etc.

We got problems...so do every other class...even rouges...

Let me guess; Your main is a rogue?

It's not like ONE SINGLE PERSON feels this way. Almost the whole Warlock community seem to share our frustration, from what I've seen. And no, that is not only on mmo-champion.

You say the game is not all about winning or losing. And sure, I agree. The point you're missing though is that if you keep losing, you wont do any progress. Such is the punishment for mediocracy.
You can't really tell people "Get better and stop whining!" every time a nerf happens. Some times it's not the player, it's the class. Or even the game mechanics. Or do you feel that retri paladins were OK before throughout TBC? Or Hunters in arena?

[TerryBogard]

In what world is 12k 70% of 15k?

15000 * .7 = 10500
10500 * .8 = 8400

Sorry I was tired and looks like i did 20% twice by accident. You are correct my numbers were wrong

[Darkengelion]

Let me guess; Your main is a rogue?

It's not like ONE SINGLE PERSON feels this way. Almost the whole Warlock community seem to share our frustration, from what I've seen. And no, that is not only on mmo-champion.

You say the game is not all about winning or losing. And sure, I agree. The point you're missing though is that if you keep losing, you wont do any progress. Such is the punishment for mediocracy.
You can't really tell people "Get better and stop whining!" every time a nerf happens. Some times it's not the player, it's the class. Or even the game mechanics. Or do you feel that retri paladins were OK before throughout TBC? Or Hunters in arena?

I would never roll a rouge in mylife...never...I dont like playing a class by facerolling...

[Avalion]

I agree then thing will change with new season 5 gear(not sure how much that will increase our survivability).Only problem hier is then you will need midd or high arena rating to get any of those gear,that means you will need bloody good healer with you in team(probably good friend or guildie).In my expirience in S3 and S4 was really hard to find skilled and geared healer to go with lock instead with rogue or warrior,pally(DK now too).Last resort to get any good gear(if you can't get midd or high arena rating) is to do archavon on weekly basis(10 and 25 man) and get some gear from there.With current s4 gear locks are just dying to quick to any not ranged class(metamorphosis makes some diff,but not for long,any smart class will run away from you until expires and then GG).Well,we gonna see what will happend in next couple weeks,hard to say anything conctructive now until gear is there and we will see how hard is to get it.

[Irishop]

I honestly did not think US locks were that bad off in PVP. That's until i tried arena with another warlock. 2vs2. That's right 2 locks sl/felgaurd spec. What a joke. 18k HP 300rez means nothing. getting killed before you can get out of one stun from a rogue is just so sad. How can this be over looked for so long? How can blizzard not see this as a Big problem? I mean they keep buffing other classes PVP and PVE wise and these same people could still WIPE the floor with us. Now yes i am not saying i am really good at PVP i am a little rusty, but we need some kind of defense. Every class has there thing. If a rogue can Stun lock you to death why can't a warlock fear you to death? What is the difference?

[Coronius]

I would never roll a rouge in mylife...never...I dont like playing a class by facerolling...

Something we might actually agree on. Rogues in PvP are the true laughingstocks in this game, not the so-called "huntards".

[Mage101]

If a rogue can Stun lock you to death why can't a warlock fear you to death? What is the difference?

UHHHHH LOL, I basically loled so hard irl at this statement could not believe someone would write this without knowing that it is possible and I have seen it done to a point where Im litrally like "Is there a DR even on fear?!?!" lol...they may not be able to do it to a rogue and im not saying they can do it to me even 30% of the time im just saying that it is possible and ive seen it...

[Irishop]

You can LOL all you want. My point is, do you know how hard it is to do? Do you know how hard it is for a rogue to stun lock a target? I have both and stunlocking is stupid easy compared to having to chase someone to keep fear on. With the new Glyph it may be easier to keep fear going but i doubt it is game changing. You say you have seen it. EVERYONE has seen and felt a rogue stunlock. Very difficult to be feared to death now a days.

[Shamb]

UHHHHH LOL, I basically loled so hard irl at this statement could not believe someone would write this without knowing that it is possible and I have seen it done to a point where Im litrally like "Is there a DR even on fear?!?!" lol...they may not be able to do it to a rogue and im not saying they can do it to me even 30% of the time im just saying that it is possible and ive seen it...

What ???

There is a dimishing returns on fear. First last 10 sec, second 7, third 4, fourth your immune for 10-15 seconds.

More then that now, fear breaks after a certain number of damage, so even with 5 dps, that 10 seconds fear would break before you die.

Another thing, diminishing returns doesn't cares if you broke a fear with trinket or whatnot, so if you trinket the 10 sec, then we only have teh 7, then 4 on you before immune.

Finally, fear is THE cc which every class can pretty much either break or immune themself too....

Every class has trinket +
Warriors : -Berserk rage breaks it AND immune 10 second. only 30 sec cd while Bladestorm your immune to every form of cc too. Can also spell reflect LOL priceless AND pummel
Rogues: Cloak of ROFL every minute. (stun/locks you anyway so you can't fear...)Can also Kick to cancel casting
Huntard: Bestial wrath = 18 seconds immunity every minute if glyphed/talented, Can also scatter shot to cancel casting. If not bestial cause MM, he can then use silence shot.
Mage: Ice Block removes fear, can refresh cd's with cold snap, so at least twice. He can counterspell
Paladin: Bubble + if healer 30% less duration if he takes talent. Can use his HoJ to cancel a fear casting... if he so chooses, sometimes a wise move
Priests: ok these can't do shit to break it except trinket. Can silence you if shadow. 15% less duration ( not a big diff, but every seconds count.)
Shaman: Totem of your screwed. (yes you can break it, but you need to wand it or send your demon, either takes time and he can re-cast..) Of course he can range counter while pwoning your face with earthshock has it does very respectable damage.
DeathKnight: . . . lmao I shouldn't even bother, your free HK to these guys anyway. He can cancel your spell with deathgrip, with Mind Freeze and silence you, oh and he can imune to fear for 15 seconds the better to fuck you over.
Warlock: Meh, can't do much except fear you first...
Druid: Resto: nothin. Balance: nothin to break, could potentially break casting with typhoon... would suck, unless you have no melee in your team. Feral: Berserk immune 15 sec. after that.. your dead you can't fear.

That being said... Fear is the only CC that can be canceled by a RACIAL ! ! ! so + 1 way of breaking for every undead out there.

So seriously you're saying fear = stun ?!?! where's you been the last years 1/2 ????