Third Major Glyph?

[BuNNyRespawned]

So, I don't know which Major Glyph should be my last.

I am using:

Glyph of Corruption
Glyph of Siphon Life

And Glyph of Unstable Affliction, but aren't there anything better for raiding as Affliction?

And no, not Immolate. Not doing it.

[DressdtoKill]

And no, not Immolate. Not doing it.

If you're Afflic, you fail.

DoTs > Direct Damage, esp on a spell like this...until they change something about our rotation where we'd stop using immolate...everyone is going to reccommend this Glyph, whether you 'doing it' or not.

[BuNNyRespawned]

If you're Afflic, you fail.

DoTs > Direct Damage, esp on a spell like this...until they change something about our rotation where we'd stop using immolate...everyone is going to reccommend this Glyph, whether you 'doing it' or not.

Since I removed Immo from my rotation, I changed from #2 in DPS to #1..

Believe it or not.

[Saffron]

I suggest Glyph of Curse of Agony.
Why? It makes your rotation easier and 0.2 less casting time on unstable affliction is absolutely useless because of the 1.5s global cooldown.

[TerryBogard]

I dont use Immo either.

I know a lot are saying its better to have it in your rotation but I have not found that to be the case. In theory 1 Immo does more DPS than 1 SB. Ive crunched the numbers and the theory holds. In actuality my DPS is higher without having Immo in my rotation (I would say its human error but its consistently better and although not the best lock ever, I know my class)

I suggest Glyph of Curse of Agony.
Why? It makes your rotation easier and 0.2 less casting time on unstable affliction is absolutely useless because of the 1.5s global cooldown.

The CoA glyph actually lowers your DPS. It extends the duration of CoA by 4 secs but keeps total damage the same. Thats the same damage you would do in 4 seconds more time than it takes without the glyph

[vaeevictiss]

If you took immo out of ur rotation and ur dps went up you are doing something else wrong, possibly not keeping Haunt up 100% of the time possibly. With the current DPCT of Immolate, there is nothing that can even try to say immolate is a loss of dps. maybe you were casting it at the wrong time...

either way, with a haunt/ruin build the best glyphs are corruption, SL, and Immo. that loss on the DD part of the spell is nothing compared to the amount of damage the dot part does due to haunt.

Put it back in your rotation, do the correct rotation, and keep haunt up 100% of the time and you'll see the difference. i have no problem hitting 5600 dps on thaddius and 4400 on patch.

[BuNNyRespawned]

I do keep Haunt up, but I will test it tonight I guess.

With the glyph

[TerryBogard]

If you took immo out of ur rotation and ur dps went up you are doing something else wrong, possibly not keeping Haunt up 100% of the time possibly. With the current DPCT of Immolate, there is nothing that can even try to say immolate is a loss of dps. maybe you were casting it at the wrong time...

either way, with a haunt/ruin build the best glyphs are corruption, SL, and Immo. that loss on the DD part of the spell is nothing compared to the amount of damage the dot part does due to haunt.

Put it back in your rotation, do the correct rotation, and keep haunt up 100% of the time and you'll see the difference. i have no problem hitting 5600 dps on thaddius and 4400 on patch.

Actually DPCT does not factor in haste as a component. That seriously increases SB's DPCT but not Immo's. Mr Elder Dragon Legend

[vaeevictiss]

haste is relitive, 10% of a spell cast is 10% off another spell cast. No need to be ignorant, im just pointing out what theorycrafting and extensive live server testing has proven.

The way things currently are, Immo is totally worth casting...in the future whenever blizz simplifies our rotation, Immo most likely will not be a part of it. Givin its damage, you wont really gain anything by not casting immo. 2/3 in molten core makes it that much better because 2/3 pretty much garuntees 100% uptime of MC.

The other night on a patchwerk kill, Immolate was 15% of my dps...shadow bolt was 18%....so immo isnt just some useless spell. Not casting immo, just to cast 1 shadowbolt extra, would have pushed SB to 19% maybe 20. but then you have that 15% you just gave up.

[makrinos]

ugh, so much fail in this thread... just go here: http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t37422-glyph_choice/

As affliction, immo glyph is a ~43 DPS increase (compared to SL ~34 and corr ~19). Hands down, immolate SHOULD be in rotation, and you SHOULD be using the glyph. If you're DPS increases when you drop immolate out it is because you are doing something else wrong, it's as simple as that.

TL;DR - if you're aff, get immo, SL, and corr glyphs. now.

The CoA glyph actually lowers your DPS. It extends the duration of CoA by 4 secs but keeps total damage the same. Thats the same damage you would do in 4 seconds more time than it takes without the glyph

Wrong. It adds 2 ticks to the middle of CoA, and due to the different cooldowns you're seeing as aff, it actually simplifies the rotation. Not as much of an increase in DPS as the other 3 but if you're having trouble it's something to look at.

[vaeevictiss]

i should also mention, along with haunt how i stated earlier, make sure shadow embrace stays up 100% of the time also, as it is 5% to all periodic damage...not just shadow dots either. So with the glyph thats 35% damage increase to your immo ticks. that is huge.

[gherkin]

Makrinos is correct.

You want, 100% of the time:
Glyph of Corruption
Glyph of Siphon Life

Then you have two options. Glyph of Immolate, as he said is a 43 dps increase, or Glyph of Agony, which is closer to 15 dps increase. However, if you use Agony and refresh by way of Siphon Life -> Agony then you only lose .5s of Agony uptime per rotation, which is damn good if you have problems with the rotation.


I'll put it this way: I started my Affliction learning curve with Glyph of Agony and I enjoy my UA -> Immolate and Siphon Life -> Curse of Agony combos. I switched to Glyph of Immolate to test it out and my DPS went down because I was either still refreshing in the SL->COA order or losing track of where I was in my rotation. I'm sure I could pull it off with a little more practice, but 43dps vs a simpler rotation?


Patchwerk 25 man - 5 minute enrage = 300 seconds x 43dps = 12900 damage. If 13k damage makes or breaks a fight, I consider it a failure regardless of if the boss dies or not.

[BuNNyRespawned]

So, I tried this Immolate thing.

Looking past the fact that I, and no one else on the server, can make the glyph for it - I tested the rotation in Naxx..

I didn't feel an increase, but mainly because I need to get used to keeping DoTs up while moving about.

[hobojohnn]

Make sure to always cast Immolates + UA's and Siphon Life + CoA. The one thing that pisses me off about immolate is how much it misses. 1/4 of the time immolate misses. Man I really hope destro comes back in 3.1, Blizzard failed at giving caster dps enough hit.

[TerryBogard]

Im not going to continue to argue this point, disagree all you want, but dropping Immo from your rotation can lead to a DPS increase. Ive read the EJ posts as well as many others but there are outside factors that influence whether using Immo or not is better for the player.

I know its nice to assume that things are black and white but unfortunately most often things are grey.


FYI totalitarian views usually are wrong.

[Bakis]

Basicly immo-usage is more damage done. However, the more dots you add to a rotation the more you depend on your skill, haste, latency to be effective.
A player that skip one dot can still do more damage than some idiot that got all dots but suck at using them no?

If people don't want to use immolation there are no reason to type childish shit like "l2p, noobm fail", there might be a reason why they doesn't use it you narrowminded pricks

Speaking of glyphs, if you are a affe raider you simply (in case your skill support its) pick glyphs that increase dps ie not glyphs that decrease castingtime, manausage etc but boost the raw damage of spells.

SL, immolation are example of those. As for my 3rd glyph I picked corruption even tho I know it's not a very good glyph damagewise but I can live with it untill something better gets released.

[Nataya]

If you can afford to not take spell hit talents, you can put 1 point in Molten Core.

With that talent your immolate when glyphed, just the dot damage does almost the same damage as UA.
If you add the initial damage of immolate then it does more damage than UA.

Also consider the critical debuffs that a mob has on him on a 25 man raid expect immolate to crit very often compare to your personal crit rating and it is also affected by ruin.

And with all those shadow dots/Haunt DD/SB on a mob expect molten core to be up almost 100%.

Thus taking 1/3 molten core and glyph of immolate, makes immolate a bit more useful and worths casting.

Yes, the rotation is harder when not using CoA glyph but practice makes perfect.

Here is a build
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Ifxr0zMAoVA0IstZEz0V

You can use the 3 points in Suppression anywhere else you want with in the tier limits of course.

I think 6% less mana is better than fel concentration since you only needed for UA, haunt and SoC and they r not cast that often to have a real impact on your dps.

Imp drain soul is better than soul siphon imo since you ll probably never use drain soul in a raid for a dps purpose.

The rest are pretty much mandatory.

Also, an untalented imp does more damage than a felhunter with improved felhunter.

Atleast this is what my tests have shown me.

[V]

I didn't feel an increase, but mainly because I need to get used to keeping DoTs up while moving about.

This is your problem, if your not good at the full rotation you are probably short on dot/haunt uptime which is a good dent in our dps, so you will most likely see better overall dos by dropping a dot, I've tried both and once i was good at the rotation keeping immolate is definitely better dps. As Nataya has said any points you can afford to put into molten core do so.

i should also mention, along with haunt how i stated earlier, make sure shadow embrace stays up 100% of the time also, as it is 5% to all periodic damage...not just shadow dots either. So with the glyph thats 35% damage increase to your immo ticks. that is huge.

yea this is great IF there's only you fighting for that buff, first lock to put it up currently gets the debuff. So if you don't get it first you have to hope the other afflic lock lets it fall off.

[gherkin]

google fallenman clearly blog

Check out the section on analyzing dot uptime with WWS.

[DressdtoKill]

If you can afford to not take spell hit talents, you can put 1 point in Molten Core.

With that talent your immolate when glyphed, just the dot damage does almost the same damage as UA.
If you add the initial damage of immolate then it does more damage than UA.

Also consider the critical debuffs that a mob has on him on a 25 man raid expect immolate to crit very often compare to your personal crit rating and it is also affected by ruin.

And with all those shadow dots/Haunt DD/SB on a mob expect molten core to be up almost 100%.

Thus taking 1/3 molten core and glyph of immolate, makes immolate a bit more useful and worths casting.

Yes, the rotation is harder when not using CoA glyph but practice makes perfect.

Here is a build
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Ifxr0zMAoVA0IstZEz0V

You can use the 3 points in Suppression anywhere else you want with in the tier limits of course.

I think 6% less mana is better than fel concentration since you only needed for UA, haunt and SoC and they r not cast that often to have a real impact on your dps.

Imp drain soul is better than soul siphon imo since you ll probably never use drain soul in a raid for a dps purpose.

The rest are pretty much mandatory.

Also, an untalented imp does more damage than a felhunter with improved felhunter.

Atleast this is what my tests have shown me.

No Soul Siphon? I'd take this over Imp Drain Soul...even with my threat a bit out of control, Warr's will ALWAYS throw vigilance on me and I can Shatter when it's too much; Soul Siphon I'm pretty sure increases the damage done by Drain Soul, which yo should be using below 25%...and a couple of % on top of the alrdy 5-6 ticks is pretty sick =0