What can resilience do about this?

[Ofmanv]

Cheap shot
Non-crit mutilate
Non-crit mutilate
Cold blood-eviscerate
Dead

I have a shit ton of resilience and it does its job. I still die in 4 seconds.

Seriously, what is blizzard going to do that is going to come remotely close to letting warlocks stand a chance? Let's say blizzard doubles my health! That's right, doubles my health. Then I just get to be 100-0'd through kidney shot!

Or is it just that this a game of counters? Kind of funny how counters work, aint it? Where's my class I get to drop in 4 seconds then? Where's my class I get to flawless just by facerolling my keyboard?

[BlairIsANinja]

No more Warlock threads, please! >

Everyone knows your problems, just restating it is annoying!

[Ofmanv]

Wait, triple my health! Then I get to be 100-0'd through cloak of shadows!

[Marrakech]

every non-pally non-dk non-rogue non-hunter is having the same problems as you, the simple answer is 800 resilience & a helpful 2v2 partner is the only way to stand a chance.

[sayessa]

every non-pally non-dk non-rogue non-hunter is having the same problems as you

Yeah, Mages really should get one or more spells to get out of stuns...

[ThatOneDude]

Cheap shot
Non-crit mutilate
Non-crit mutilate
Cold blood-eviscerate
Dead

I have a shit ton of resilience and it does its job. I still die in 4 seconds.

Seriously, what is blizzard going to do that is going to come remotely close to letting warlocks stand a chance? Let's say blizzard doubles my health! That's right, doubles my health. Then I just get to be 100-0'd through kidney shot!

Or is it just that this a game of counters? Kind of funny how counters work, aint it? Where's my class I get to drop in 4 seconds then? Where's my class I get to flawless just by facerolling my keyboard?

Somehow I don't believe this completely. If you have alot of resilience you should have at least 18k HP. Since when have Rogues been able to do that much damage? Stop making shit up dude.

[Spl4sh3r]

every non-pally non-dk non-rogue non-hunter is having the same problems as you, the simple answer is 800 resilience & a helpful 2v2 partner is the only way to stand a chance.

I just checked the pvp gear and you can reach 700 resilience (without gems and enchant) with full deadly+hateful offset items

[Kagthul]

Somehow I don't believe this completely. If you have alot of resilience you should have at least 18k HP. Since when have Rogues been able to do that much damage? Stop making shit up dude.

what planet do you live on?

Mulitate can easily hit 2500-3k in each hand. a 5 point crit Evisc is pretty easily 10. Do the math there.

[Snopptrollet]

what planet do you live on?

Mulitate can easily hit 2500-3k in each hand. a 5 point crit Evisc is pretty easily 10. Do the math there.

He said - STOP making shit up. Goes for you too.

[Kagthul]

He said - STOP making shit up. Goes for you too.

how about you eat a D? I'm not making *anything* up.

the people making shit up are the rogues who deny being able to do that much damage despite clear evidence that they CAN.

[Warriorspwnwithhealer]

Wait! Make our hp 4 times then they need to vanish too!

[Necrolite]

He said - STOP making shit up. Goes for you too.

He isn't making shit up, when I spec mutilate thats how hard I hit. Right now, with my sub pvp build, I can ambush for up to 12k, evis for around 9-10k, backstab for around 4300-4700, higher if i have buffs. (this is all in pvp bg's mind you). Granted, I have some great gear atm, but its still rediculous burst.

Right now, warlocks are in a pretty bad situation imo...They've always been really squishy, but they used to have huge HP pools to make up for it. Now in wrath, you guys have the same hp pool as everyone else, and yet are still just as squishy, and do way less dmg than a mage in pvp. Blizz does need to do something about this, because I'm already starting to see fewer and fewer locks in bg's arenas.

[Merc1138]

He isn't making shit up, when I spec mutilate thats how hard I hit. Right now, with my sub pvp build, I can ambush for up to 12k, evis for around 9-10k, backstab for around 4300-4700, higher if i have buffs. (this is all in pvp bg's mind you). Granted, I have some great gear atm, but its still rediculous burst.

Right now, warlocks are in a pretty bad situation imo...They've always been really squishy, but they used to have huge HP pools to make up for it. Now in wrath, you guys have the same hp pool as everyone else, and yet are still just as squishy, and do way less dmg than a mage in pvp. Blizz does need to do something about this, because I'm already starting to see fewer and fewer locks in bg's arenas.

And that's exactly the problem. Pre BC and even BC locks had huge HP pools compared to other classes, and that was our way of surviving without a ton of mitigation or half dozen escapes. I don't do arenas in wotlk because it'll be a waste of time. At least in BG's I can usually go a few seconds without drawing the attention of a warrior/rogue/hunter/paladin, but when I do it's over 5-6 seconds after they get within range to attack. Yes, there's deathcoil but it's a 2 minute cooldown and even when it's available it just delays what's going to happen by 3 seconds. We don't have a shield/bubble/30karmor/blink/iceblock/feign death/disengage/knockback/stun/disorient/hex/etc. We get 1 fear that has diminishing returns, that anyone can get out of with at least 1 button. There is seduce, but the pets just going to get 2 shotted while we're cc'd.

So while I can build a resilience set like I currently am, it won't do me one bit of good until blizzard fixes the problem they've created.

[Vidara]

Ye actually melee, DOES hit that hard. Just from the past couple of BGs a 16k Ferocious Bite and a 12k Obliterate comes to mind. And that is on 500 resilience mind you.

[Tablemaker]

Isn't diminishing returns kind of gone now? In it's place, spells like fear, break after a certain amount of damage is reached? What that amount is, I do not know.

[dotzwky]

Well muta basically takes a fair amount of energy to perform. No good rogue would actually spam it as much as you've mentioned in your particular rotation based on energy and combo points.

Cheapshot (2-3) combo points.
Muta - (1-2) combo points.

You basically have a choice now to do a finisher of kidney or evis(with cold blood).

Either way it wouldn't be 18k hp at this point.

Even if we assume to best possible stun lock and maximum damage, which is.

Cheap shot, Muta, Kidney, Muta (short delay) evis.

Once you're out of that 4-5 kidney you would've only taken 2 yellow hits and alot of small white dagger hits.

This is your oppertunity to kill the rogue.

If you have a partner you could, feral charge, cheapshot, scatter shot, charge, shadowflame, fear, hammer of justice, lava, disarm, dismantle. I can assure you half of those abilities there would prevent a rogue from vanishing or using his cloak. Then you pop your instant attacks or whatever and yeah, the rogue is pretty much dead.

Just because PVP system has changed a lot doesn't mean its broken. At 60 i could kill people with 2 backstabs, when 70 came i had to play endurance games, it wasn't broken it was just different.

At 60 almost nothing could stop stuns, nothing could stop dots and above all no melee could take a good hunters feign death into trap.

[Ofmanv]

Well muta basically takes a fair amount of energy to perform. No good rogue would actually spam it as much as you've mentioned in your particular rotation based on energy and combo points.

Cheapshot (2-3) combo points.
Muta - (1-2) combo points.

You basically have a choice now to do a finisher of kidney or evis(with cold blood).

Either way it wouldn't be 18k hp at this point.

Even if we assume to best possible stun lock and maximum damage, which is.

Cheap shot, Muta, Kidney, Muta (short delay) evis.

Once you're out of that 4-5 kidney you would've only taken 2 yellow hits and alot of small white dagger hits.

This is your oppertunity to kill the rogue.

If you have a partner you could, feral charge, cheapshot, scatter shot, charge, shadowflame, fear, hammer of justice, lava, disarm, dismantle. I can assure you half of those abilities there would prevent a rogue from vanishing or using his cloak. Then you pop your instant attacks or whatever and yeah, the rogue is pretty much dead.

Just because PVP system has changed a lot doesn't mean its broken. At 60 i could kill people with 2 backstabs, when 70 came i had to play endurance games, it wasn't broken it was just different.

At 60 almost nothing could stop stuns, nothing could stop dots and above all no melee could take a good hunters feign death into trap.

I read all that and didn't follow any of it. Mutilate being 1-2 combo points... Rogue can't do 18k damage after 2 mutilates and an eviscerate... Shadowflame is gonna keep the rogue from cloaking... You 2 shot people with backstabs...

I didn't get anything from it all.

[shono99]

My holy pally arena partner has died by 2x prot pallies in under 4 seconds. We all know PVP is dumb at the moment.

And it's not just rogues, 12k pyro crits, 8k chaos bolt crits, ret pallies 100-0%'ing people in 4-5 globals, etc. Right now things are looking bad, noobs are steam rolling with 2x/3x prot comps to the 2k's.

PVP is a mess but all we can do is just sit out and wait if it balances out again. If it doesn't blizzard did what every successful game does... cater to the casuals. Dumb things down to make things easier for the garbage players in turn ruining the meta game.

Prot was a joke before, and Prot should be able to do *some* damage even if not getting beat on. God help Blizzard for giving certain specs a chance! Shield of the Righteous and Hammer of the Righteous give Prot Paladins a chance. If you focus on them, then you have Holy Shield to deal with.

Tanks in general were ignored because they didn't dish out much damage. Cat Feral Druids did, and Bears could survive, just couldn't do enough damage and had ZERO way of slowing opponents, which was Feral's main problem to begin with.

WoW changed greatly in Burning Crusade, and even moreso in Wrath of the Lich King. But how fair was it to see 15k warlocks at 70? 15% Stamina was a LOT.

I'd say the only class that hasen't really changed was the Priest, they are still durable and best arena healer. But any class can do well it depends on the SUPPORT and COUNTERS. PVP trinket is there for a reason, to disrupt people's counters. If you sit in a stun for 10 seconds you are going to die without a heal, a BOP or some other kind of support.

[geonexus]

Isn't diminishing returns kind of gone now? In it's place, spells like fear, break after a certain amount of damage is reached? What that amount is, I do not know.

actually from experience they INCREASED the diminishing returns of fear.
first fear is normally trinketed or broken in 1 way or another second lasts like 8-10 seconds and can also be broken easily. 3rd is about 5 seconds 4th is about 3 seconds then they get an immunity from fear for a short while. by then we are dead.

[Warriorspwnwithhealer]

Its actually 10-7-3-0