Glyph of Frostbolt

[spitfire668]

I have nothing against frost as a spec, if I was running 5 mans or pvpin ect Frost is a fun and useful spec in a group. In a 25 man there is no argument for bringing a frost mage. That's my point

You mean like the argument of he/she is paying to play and you are not paying for them to play. There for they have full rain over there character weather you are there raid leader/guild master. How ever, until you can give an intelligent argument as to why ffb is better then frost(completely dependent on character skill btw) you have no argument as to why ffb is better. And sorry the argument "Cause it is newb" does not work in this situation.

[Emiex]

What the hell are you talking about. To even suggest that a frost mage can do higher dps then a ffb mage currently is absurd and moronic. If you want to put time and effort into pve why would you want to show up and do something half ass. If you are going to do something do it right or don't do it at all. If you really want to me to take the time to post dps tables of how frost has no chance in hell of getting the same or higher dps then ffb I will, but damn that's a waste of time.

[Ghrim]

@Emiex:

Does your posts mean that your raid is so extremely bad that you actually have to look at the specs you are using?

That is hard to believe as the content is so.......tuned...... that everyone can take the spec they enjoy and still faceroll through the raids.

I'm sorry for you that you can't play what you like because you are raiding with a bunch of noobs.

[Emiex]

You are missing the point entirely raiding isnt about playing what you like or don't like. Its about playing as a team and helping each other. Why would you go to a gun fight with a knife, cause you like it? If you don't show up the proper spec there is no point in you showing up. Just cause you want to be frost why do the other 24 other players have to suffer with less dps for your entertainment. Stop being selfish idiots and play the game properly.

[rabbimojo]

You are missing the point entirely raiding isnt about playing what you like or don't like. Its about playing as a team and helping each other. Why would you go to a gun fight with a knife, cause you like it? If you don't show up the proper spec there is no point in you showing up. Just cause you want to be frost why do the other 24 other players have to suffer with less dps for your entertainment. Stop being selfish idiots and play the game properly.

Similarly, there's no point in even playing WoW if you're not having fun.
The balance between fun and progress is one that has to be maintained in any raid guild. There are guilds where you have to eek out every last point of damage, and there are guilds where you don't.

Naxx and the rest of T7 is easy enough that you can bring almost any spec and do just fine. I think it's reasonable to ask players to bring -raid- specs, but right now there's no excuse for telling someone which tree to be in. Any tree can bring enough dps to be worth bringing.

If the raid is struggling, I guess that's another question, but that'd have to be looked at case-by-case. DPS in this game is so easy that it's rarely an issue of what spec and what numbers, rather it's about where they stand and how they time things. Especially in LK.

[Ghrim]

You are missing the point entirely raiding isnt about playing what you like or don't like. Its about playing as a team and helping each other. Why would you go to a gun fight with a knife, cause you like it? If you don't show up the proper spec there is no point in you showing up. Just cause you want to be frost why do the other 24 other players have to suffer with less dps for your entertainment. Stop being selfish idiots and play the game properly.

What you don't understand is that it's NOT about going to a gun fight with a knife but with a different looking gun.

So taking the example of the mage who takes the spec he likes and therefore has e.g. 300dps less. Assuming a typical fight where everyone is at about 4k + dps (easy to obtain). Thats a difference of 7.5% for one player. Let's say you have 15 DDs thats a net loss of 0.5% raiddamage (even less when counting the tanks). WHOOPIDOO, THAT's a huge impact! ....... In a typical raidsituation you lose more overall dps due to someone scratching his head during a bossfight.

So just stop posting things that aren't true at all and let the people play the way they want to.

[xxdrew]

What you don't understand is that it's NOT about going to a gun fight with a knife but with a different looking gun.

frost



ffb

[Emiex]

^ What that guy said

[xnickybx]

While I agree that if you're raid is cruising, you should spec what you think is fun, but, seriously, how could some one think frost is more fun than ffb. Does the fire around your frost bolt kill it for you? Do you really like fireball over pyroblast for your instant proc? Or maybe it's making a boss live a little bit longer that floats your boat? The fun arguement only works for arcane, using frost just means you are lazy because you can't be bothered casting scorch.

[Noobinator]

You are missing the point entirely raiding isnt about playing what you like or don't like. Its about playing as a team and helping each other. Why would you go to a gun fight with a knife, cause you like it? If you don't show up the proper spec there is no point in you showing up. Just cause you want to be frost why do the other 24 other players have to suffer with less dps for your entertainment. Stop being selfish idiots and play the game properly.

You cant tell some1 to play the game properly. Others are paying the exact same ammount of money as you do. You have no fucking rights to tell ppl that then "should do something".

Im playing a game because i think its fun. How can it possibly be fun if you have to play with someone elses rules that you dont like?

[Emiex]

Are you that poor that you keep having the bring up the money issue? Who the hell cares about 15 bucks a month............. Just cause you pay 15 dollars a month does not give you the right to show up to the raid being a useless piece of crap

[Caution909]

i actually think it's the other way around now, there are options. the dps difference is only minor, you are no longer stuck having to ffb to raid. in fact mages are closer in dps between all specs than any other class. i'm totally in favor of this change...

The dps difference isnt even close to minor. If it is, you were doing FFB spec wrong or you dont know how to play it. The difference between frost and FFB spec can literally be inthe thousands of dps, with the same level of gear.

[Noobinator]

The money is not the point. The point is that you dont have the rights to tell people how to play. Just since you seem to know how to play doesnt mean anyone cares about it.

If the guy likes his Frost specc, why should you care? The point of the game is to have fun. I guess you just play the game because your guild leader tells you to.

[PwnerIndian]

Actually, it does. Its my money that I am spending to play a game. Its people like you that ruin the fun factor with the elitist "stfu and do it this way" attitude. If someone wants to give up the way they want to play and go with the highest damaging spec, then form groups for top notch stuff with like minded people, then that person deserves the satisfaction of downing the end game content, same with the people they grouped with.

[PwnerIndian]

check out the link below after 3.0.8 ffb is not the end all be all of mage dps...

http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

This is actually a good link. One thing that caught my eyes was the difference between Shadow dps and Smite dps. yeh, its possible to take smite as a dps now, but omg that's literally a 50% damage difference!

[Natedawg86]

Are you that poor that you keep having the bring up the money issue? Who the hell cares about 15 bucks a month............. Just cause you pay 15 dollars a month does not give you the right to show up to the raid being a useless piece of crap

Spending 15 bucks a month gives a player the right to play however the hell they want. If they like frost who are you to say they can't raid with it. If 300dps means the difference between downing a boss or not downing a boss then the whole raid needs to be looked at. You totally took his thread and hijacked it to something else.

P.S. Im sure if 15 bucks was an issue they wouldn't been playing the game. Your point is irrelevant.

[Knuffelbert]

Is it really so hard to understand the flaming guy?

If you are in a guild which allows anyone to screw up, then that's okay and be happy that you can play "for fun" what ever you like. But if you are in a guild which enjoys raiding because they kill stuff, get fat loots and don't spend time wiping or taking ages to kill the boss and trash, then you should try to minmax yourself as good as you can. Because chances are that some people will think "man, if those 2 guys didn't have a gimped specc" (or just being a gimp) we would have done this achievement, killed that boss last try or just plain being done one hour earlier or killed one or two bosses more. Especially in 10 mans one guy can make the difference.

I know the majority of people here think like this as well. And if you know that you gimp yourself and your raid by going with a sub par specc, then that is just selfish and decreases the fun everyone else is having, if they happen to think like me. Yes, you pay for the game, but so do the other 4/9 or 24 people. DPS difference in a few percentile region I don't care about (some do), but at some point it get's very noticible, especially if I know how much a difference the specc would do and especially if time is very close or a 1% wipe. Yes the content is relativly easy, some still struggle with it though, so don't assume just because you have everything on farm means everyone else has too.

Of course noone from "the outside" should tell you how to play, but your guild members (sometimes) and your GM/RL (usually) can.

[Comar]

To answer the topic, Yes Glyph of Frostbolt is nice if your frost for pve.
But frost is a pvp tree so having Glyph of Frostbolt is just retarded.
There's no arguement for speccing frost/arcane for pve.
FFB is much much higher dps... If you claim that your dps is almost the same as frost/arcane as it is as FFB spec
then you must have so ridicilous low dps that there's no difference.
And frost/arcane doesn't give anything to the raid that fire doesn't, except for Focus magic which is like +3% crit to 1 player... which isn't worth the huge dps loss.
The mana regen from WE = shit.
The only thing better about frost is that its more mana efficient, but if you go oom at a boss fight as FFB
then 1) You don't know how to play a mage, 2) Your raid has way too low overall dps.

[nowimnothing30]

To answer the topic, Yes Glyph of Frostbolt is nice if your frost for pve.
But frost is a pvp tree so having Glyph of Frostbolt is just retarded.
There's no arguement for speccing frost/arcane for pve.
FFB is much much higher dps... If you claim that your dps is almost the same as frost/arcane as it is as FFB spec
then you must have so ridicilous low dps that there's no difference.
And frost/arcane doesn't give anything to the raid that fire doesn't, except for Focus magic which is like +3% crit to 1 player... which isn't worth the huge dps loss.
The mana regen from WE = shit.
The only thing better about frost is that its more mana efficient, but if you go oom at a boss fight as FFB
then 1) You don't know how to play a mage, 2) Your raid has way too low overall dps.

the main point of this thread is that what your saying is no longer true in 3.0.8...

ffb dps in 3.0.8 in "raid" is 5274 dps
frost/arcane dps in 3.0.8 in "raid" is 4914 dps

is a difference of 360 dps gimped? can we end the "ffb is l33t, ltp noob" or is it changing to "TtW is l33t, ltp"...

ps - since no one wants to read the info on the link
fireball/arcane dps in 3.0.8 in "raid" is 5421 dps
arcane dps in 3.0.8 in "raid" is 5602 dps

[Vynicor]

Are you that poor that you keep having the bring up the money issue? Who the hell cares about 15 bucks a month............. Just cause you pay 15 dollars a month does not give you the right to show up to the raid being a useless piece of crap

Are you really that rude in real life? Dude The current raids in the game are not that difficult for people to be specced a certain way for a raid. My guild has a couple of frost mages that raid 25 and 10 mans and we have cleared all of naxx on 10 and 25. We don't NEED people to be specced the way you say they should be specced to be successful. Idk why you have a stick up your ass. Plus it's none of your business what other guilds are doing...just stay in your guild and let them deal with you sorry ass. :