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  1. #1

    Are raids really that easy?

    I know there has been a lot of discussion/complaining that WOTLK is way too easy, but I do not think I have ever once seen this said, so I would like to get some thoughts from people. Is WOTLK really that easy, or have we as players gotten much, much better at playing the game?

    I know that Blizz has said that Naxx was supposed to be entry lvl and admittedly things have seemed a bit easy, but that being said, I think the easiness has more to do with the fact that we are all way better at playing than we used to be. Think about how much time even casual players play the game. I consider myself casual and I play roughly 25 hours per week. When you spread that out over 4 years or however long it has been, that equals a ton of practice.

    Sure, some of the dungeon and raid fights are only slight variations so they are easy, but even the new ones are relatively simple to learn because we know what to look for. Heck, give a professional musician a brand new piece of music that would challenge most people and they can play it all the way through the first time they see it.

    I just wanted to put this out there and see what other people thought.

  2. #2

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    People are pugging naxxramas heroic, do you still need to ask if the raids are really that easy?
    Major overload to the instance servers when there is 3-4 pugs running and guild runs.

  3. #3

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    Quote Originally Posted by HotSorceress
    or have we as players gotten much, much better at playing the game?
    I can assure you that this is NOT the case.

  4. #4

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    Just because pugs are doing naxx doesnt mean 100% of them full clear, it usually doesnt happen,unless you get everyone with at least 10 man achievment. Keep in mind this is "kara". Harder instances should be here soon.

  5. #5

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    Quote Originally Posted by HotSorceress
    Is WOTLK really that easy, or have we as players gotten much, much better at playing the game?
    There are still shitloads of scrubs and complete noobs on all the servers. I think that answers your question?

  6. #6

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    Quote Originally Posted by deathbomb
    Just because pugs are doing naxx doesnt mean 100% of them full clear, it usually doesnt happen,unless you get everyone with at least 10 man achievment. Keep in mind this is "kara". Harder instances should be here soon.
    kara was challenging at first

  7. #7

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    kara was challenging at first
    I know. Im just saying that harder instances are still to come.

  8. #8

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    kara was not bugged, and if by mis-tuned you mean actually challenging and unpuggable then yes, you are right. It actually required competence and skill, whereas naxx just requires enough gear and a clear explanation. There is so much room for error in naxx its ridiculous.

  9. #9

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    Well i think its more an issue that most people at least in my guild were raiding naxx classic so there isn't a high fight learning curve this time around. I've done Naxx runs heroic and normal with people experience with both raiding and with Naxx and everything seemed like a walk in the park with little to no learning curve. I remember doing kara early on in tbc and it took us a fair amount of time to progress through it. As opposed to a full clear within 2 weeks and several other guilds did it faster than us. If a casual guild clears all of the content in 2 weeks then we have a problem even if its the introductory content.

  10. #10

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    Our guild one-shotted Loatheb on normal mode yesterday. Nobody in the guild had seen the fight before (videos yes, but not actually fighting it.)

    7 people died before loatheb was at 50% (or maybe when he had just reached that point). I (holy paladin), our tank (prot paladin), and 1 DPS (Unholy Death Knight) took Loatheb from 50% to dead, through the soft-cap enrage timer of 15 sec Impending Dooms.


    I won't make any assertions either way at this point, just throwing this out there.

  11. #11

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    its too easy, even for entry lvl , you want a decent challenge try Sartharion with 3 drakes , guilds just 1 shot Kel'thuzad in 25 version , its that lame ... there is so much room for error its ridiculous... there are achievements to do it with less than 21 people ...

    You dont need more then 5-6 hours to clear the hole content , the word "hardcore " doesnt exit anymore , cause there aint nothing to be hardcore about , overall the current content its pathetic it simply cant compare to TBC gruul/ kara entry lvl or heroics , and no they were not bugged they we're tuned fine, just that it required people a functional brain to do them ...
    Banned for trolling.

  12. #12
    Grob
    Guest

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    its sad but

    Woltk failed, and achievments mean nothing

  13. #13

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    didn't intentionally mean to twist your words, just took it as you thought it was bugged as you referred to it as mistuned, then made a comment about bugged content.

  14. #14

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    "You dont need more then 5-6 hours to clear the hole content "


    I logged on just to laugh at this...you my friend need some fibre

  15. #15

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    As a general rule, I'd say those that are pugging Naxx spend way more time waiting for it to fill up than they actually spend in the instance itself.

    Hell, most of the pug type leaders are spamming for people for about 2.5-3hours, then they are doing the same thing night after night, while only getting a boss or 2 down.

    Decent guild runs clear Naxx25 in about the same amount of time it takes a pug to just fill up. As long as the run is solid, decently geared knowledgeable people, it should only take 3-4 hours.

  16. #16

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corroc
    People are pugging naxxramas heroic, do you still need to ask if the raids are really that easy?
    Major overload to the instance servers when there is 3-4 pugs running and guild runs.
    Umm, there were full clear Pugs of Black Temple (pre nerf) on select servers so, I'd pick a more solid argument.

    That being said, I'm really not big on one-shotting more than half of the bosses available in the game right now.
    Yes, it's easy, but I'm still very hopeful about Ulduar.
    A rich man once told me: "Hey life's a funny thing."
    A poor man once told me that he can't afford to speak...

  17. #17

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    Blizzard is catering to more casual players with design now. They just added hard mode achievements to give the raiders bragging rights still. I've seen quite a few servers add a raiding achievement progression to their progression threads.

    Ulduar isn't gonna be Naxx easy, but I think it'll still be pretty easy. But they have said they're gonna add more 'Hard mode' bosses like Sarth+3 to it. So while regular content might be cake, the hard modes will allow the hardcore raiders get items that Puggers and Casual do not with extra loot added that's in a differant loot table for the achievement.
    80 Orc Hunter: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Greymane&n=Hamstar

    Tyrenis was before the race change.

  18. #18

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    I think they did a fine job with naxx, it's easy enough that people can learn what needs to be done and allows for newer players to actually develope the skills needed to run harder raids without getting so frustrated with hour after hour of wiping on progression fights.

    Yes i would like to see harder fights and i KNOW that they will scale as we go which i am looking forward to in the coming content patches. However with regards to PUGs clearing naxx, u have to remember when TBC came out we didnt have the armory to check out each players gear before they joined. Whenever I PUG anyone i always make sure they ATLEAST have decent stats before they come and even then if they cant pay attention they dont get to stay. There is a difference between stupidity and inexperience.

  19. #19
    High Overlord Spooh's Avatar
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    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    I do really think that wotlk content are too easy.

    Nax (10) First try, we had maybe 10 wipes in total on all bosses. Maybe like 5 people had been there pre-bc

    Nax (25) Cleared with 23 people, pretty much one-shot on all bosses, except thaddius (too bad dps with only 23 people and 1-2 ppl dying)

    Though, this was our first trys like two weeks after release. We didn't even spend time wiping on bosses, we almost one shot all of em.

    Malygos was a bit hard in the start, always some people who didn't understand phase 3. But he got downed pretty quick aswell.

    Sarth 25 (3) was pretty hard, everyone needed full focus and noone could noob around. We used 6-7 hours wiping on sarth before downing him. (And even this isn't that much for being the hardest content in game atm)

    a bit dissapointing, but still alot of fun raiding.

  20. #20

    Re: Are raids really that easy?

    Estimates/data varies but most people believe <1% of wow's player base ever saw a boss die in sunwell. It also broke many many guilds apart. Blizzard will try very hard to never make that mistake again.

    Raiding is supposed to bring players together in a fun team sport. Its not suppossed to completely stress out and distingrate the very social structures that make MMO's so much fun - and thats what sunwell did - it made raiding either not possible or not fun for the vast majority of guilds and players who attempted it.

    For all the hardcore raiders that are upset that puggers can see naxx you have to realize that there are many more puggers that are esctatic about their ability to pug it. Uldaman will bring many more encounters like Obsidian Sannctum where you can choose the difficulty level of the particular encounter. this is an ideal solution i think


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