Your theories on our new feral stat...

[xebtria]

thick hide:

Increasing your armor value from items by 3-7-10%.
Additionally increases your chance to be missed by all attacks made against you by 0.1% per 300/200/100 Attackpower or part thereof while in bear form.


btw: is this "per xy or part thereof" correct english? I searched for the right expression on a dictionary, because english isn't my native
it should mean if you have 4500 attack power you gain 4,5% to-be-missed, if you got 4501 AP, you gain 4,6% to-be-missed.
dunno how good it would scale... maybe an 1:2 or 1:3 conversion from expertise and hit? 6% expertise and 3% hit would be 3% to-be-missed?
something like this would be a good version...

[Bernini]

What I would like to see happen is for Blizz to make Defense more worthwhile for bears. They could do something like giving defense a set amount of mitigation spread over all possible ways to mitigate. for example with some bogus numbers: For Warriors and Paladins, 1 Defense gives 1% mitigation (.25% block, .25% dodge, .25% miss, .25% parry). DK's: 1 Defense gives 1% mitigation (.33% dodge, .33% miss, .33% parry). For Bears: 1 Defense gives 1% mitigation (.5% dodge, .5% miss).

[wingcommander]

I'm thinking that it could be a second kind of Dodge stat based off something, either Haste (mentioned already) or Str. Dodge2!

Another self feral buff would also be cool, something added to shapreshifter talent as this is useless now (for ferals) except for unlocking master shapteshifter.

[Deleted]

Id like to see str for us work somethink like blocks. I mean, a strong bear can take more hits than a weaker bear. Or maybe intellect, to make us more cunning in fights. Or maybe spirits to.. nah, i wont even go there :P

[arel00]

As I see the situation now, my guess would be either one of these things:

- Absobtion, to follow the lines of block. It would probably work both on magical and physical (though block doesn't)
- Avoidance, in the form not of Parry, but of a boosted Miss chance.

Both stats could be linked to Attack Power, giving us more worries about AP, and to some extent Strength (which could, if showing up on the bear set through gems and such, made it hybrid wiht the cat gear). Else, both could scale off Defense, giving us a reason to actually pursue it as a stat.

I personally doubt we'll be given parry, more likely will be one of these. Choices on scaling stats aren't many. Having us already focusing loads on Agility, Stamina and Armor, the most likely to show up are AP and Defense. Intellect would be going against every item change Blizzard has made for us, and I don't think a new stat could be introduced. Else, it could to some extent rely on Critical chance. But I see this last much more difficult and complex to set up.

[Sulika]

So after further revision my two hot favourites are:

1. Haste rating reducing chance to be hit by melee.
2. STR boosting thorns and thorns blocking equal to the amount of damage reflected.

[frankster]

thick hide:

Increasing your armor value from items by 3-7-10%.
Additionally increases your chance to be missed by all attacks made against you by 0.1% per 300/200/100 Attackpower or part thereof while in bear form.


btw: is this "per xy or part thereof" correct english? I searched for the right expression on a dictionary, because english isn't my native

its correct though a little formal or old-fashioned. though it also suggests you're well educated. so its fine

[Nalla]

thick hide:

Increasing your armor value from items by 3-7-10%.
Additionally increases your chance to be missed by all attacks made against you by 0.1% per 300/200/100 Attackpower or part thereof while in bear form.


btw: is this "per xy or part thereof" correct english? I searched for the right expression on a dictionary, because english isn't my native
it should mean if you have 4500 attack power you gain 4,5% to-be-missed, if you got 4501 AP, you gain 4,6% to-be-missed.
dunno how good it would scale... maybe an 1:2 or 1:3 conversion from expertise and hit? 6% expertise and 3% hit would be 3% to-be-missed?
something like this would be a good version...

it's a nice idea but you'd get ppl using it for PVP etc and other classes start screaming OP (again) and it gets nerfed back into oblivion, only way to make it viable is to burry it further down the tree.

What ever blizz do you can guarentee 2 things, 1) it'll be another 12 months before we see anything and 2) it (whatever it is) will probably be something we have on gear already or blizz will either have to rework gear just for bears, which you know they wont do. Im leaning towards the haste side of it atm.

[Tany]

So after further revision my two hot favourites are:

1. Haste rating reducing chance to be hit by melee.
2. STR boosting thorns and thorns blocking equal to the amount of damage reflected.

I joined just because I liked this thread. But I think that using STR to boost thorns for blocking seems like a wonderful idea. As a bear tank, I rarely if ever put much thought into str, but many non-leather items like (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40069) come to mind. And str gems would have much more use for us to fill in all those red slots.

[Cerus]

Don't forget, they did say a "new stat" for Bears so AP>something doesn't make a whole lot of sense(although some) since we already naturally have very high AP. Str wouldn't make much sense either since we now use Rogue gear. If it's an actual stat that can be itemized and/or gemmed for I'd have to go with Haste given their frequent posts about the stat when it comes to melee. If it's something "off the wall" like the Str to thorns idea or working in a block stat then it could be anything.

But I'm pretty sure there are Haste/Stam gems in the game (JC but haven't played that much lately) so those would be a viable item for us. I think they are shooting for something talented (obviously) that wouldn't screw up any current gear in the game. They could easily tweak the Druid tier set to tack on some Haste, tweak it's usefulness for the melee classes - sounds like Blizzard to me. While I do like the Str>Thorns idea, it would only be available on the few pieces of jewelry and our weapons. Str was also a big part of Ferals itemization in BC and they did say "new" - I just hope it's not months before we hear anything more.

[vayron]

Well, Blizz was stupid enough to actually run with this rouge/cat/bear same gear idea, so it would have to be off some stat already present on rogue gear since they'll never admit to actually fucking up.

The things bears miss is clearly block, so, I would somehow give bear druids something that partially mitigates random attacks.

Quit talking.

[Deleted]

Don't forget, they did say a "new stat" for Bears so AP>something doesn't make a whole lot of sense(although some) since we already naturally have very high AP. Str wouldn't make much sense either since we now use Rogue gear. If it's an actual stat that can be itemized and/or gemmed for I'd have to go with Haste given their frequent posts about the stat when it comes to melee. If it's something "off the wall" like the Str to thorns idea or working in a block stat then it could be anything.

But I'm pretty sure there are Haste/Stam gems in the game (JC but haven't played that much lately) so those would be a viable item for us. I think they are shooting for something talented (obviously) that wouldn't screw up any current gear in the game. They could easily tweak the Druid tier set to tack on some Haste, tweak it's usefulness for the melee classes - sounds like Blizzard to me. While I do like the Str>Thorns idea, it would only be available on the few pieces of jewelry and our weapons. Str was also a big part of Ferals itemization in BC and they did say "new" - I just hope it's not months before we hear anything more.

Blizzard said "New stat to care about". I doub they are going to invent a whole new stat for us. They are just going to make one stat work towards healing aswell.

Well, Blizz was stupid enough to actually run with this rouge/cat/bear same gear idea, so it would have to be off some stat already present on rogue gear since they'll never admit to actually fucking up.

The things bears miss is clearly block, so, I would somehow give bear druids something that partially mitigates random attacks. Call it a reflexive withdrawal or something, similar to glancing blows, but not a static %, but scaling. Scale it off haste I would guess. More haste means you're more likely to partially avoid, and avoid more, of an attack.

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with the current itemization, and the rogue/druid is ingenious. The problem, if you had bothered to get into the subject, is how we will scale as our gear increases past 50% dodge, where we wont see as big an increase as we should.

[Saelind]

I joined just because I liked this thread. But I think that using STR to boost thorns for blocking seems like a wonderful idea. As a bear tank, I rarely if ever put much thought into str, but many non-leather items like (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40069) come to mind. And str gems would have much more use for us to fill in all those red slots.

I Like the Thorns idea too but I'm afraid it would be considered OP in PVP as passive damage reflexion.

It would also be nice to see some stat working for both physical and magical damage if the health pool is to be reduced as many of the posters are thinking.

Concerning this point I don't see why a nerf would be mandatory as the bigger diminushing return on the gear improvement by T8 is to be considered by itself as a nerf.
I mean if druids are considered less efficent tanks by T8 standards this means that the "new stat to care about" would be there to fill in that gap and then should not require a nerf to be implemented.

In regards to gear if this issue concerns T8 why would the gear "new stat" be there before? That would mean that somwhere you'll have to find this gear in the early stages of Ulduar in order to compensate the caps reached.

[Cerus]

Blizzard said "New stat to care about". I doub they are going to invent a whole new stat for us. They are just going to make one stat work towards healing aswell.

Obviously by new I (hence the quotation marks) I meant a stat we haven't worried about or used for tanking before. I never said or meant that they wouldn't create an entirely new stat to fit into the defense section of the character pane. While we've never directly or intentionally stacked AP or Str it's always been on our gear. I don't think Blizzard would hype up the news of something new if it was something that simple. Haste is a pretty good candidate, far more likely than Parry given that the question of why we can't when low level animals can has been posed a million times.

[vayron]

Got something useful to say?

This isn't the problem at all. Druid dodge DR is already on a different schedule than other classes. If it was simply scaling, they could make the DR happen even more slowly when T8 comes out. Their reasons for wanting more stats clearly isn't just an issue of dodge scaling.

Again...quit talking. Go do some research on druid dodge scaling and what Blizz has said about the reasons behind this. Til then, take your forum troll training wheels and gtfo.

[baseball]

I like the thorns --> "str into block" idea, too. I don't really think there's enough seperation between cat talents and bear talents anyway, so adding another 3 pt mitigation talent would be fine.


Parry won't be the source of avoidance, though. Adding another "pure avoidance" stat like parry on top of bears' immense dodge percentages would be too hard to balance. Diminishing returns on dodge won't bring us down so much as to require this.

The one thing we're lacking is a block-style feature -- we fake it with high armor but that's not really the same. I'm expecting Blizzard to take one of the two "useless" stats that's all over rogue armor (haste or ArP) and have a defensive conversion to some sort of absorption mechanic.

[Vimpster]

I don't understand why so many people are bringing up strength in their suggestions when there is no leather armor in wotlk with strength on it except random greens. We get some strength if we wear the tanking rings/necklaces/cloaks since they are intended for all tank classes. But that isn't much strength to have some defensive stat scale from.

I'ed much prefer they make us scale from the stats that are on our current gear instead of always changing classes so that the stats on their previous tier sets are useless all of a sudden, (ie. intell and spellpower on our old feral gear for example).

[Tany]

There isn't str on our leather gear it's true. But when I suggest str as a stat to increase the 'new' stat, I think of it more like a warrior hunting for more block or parry. It's not the base of the stats on their gear either, but it's something you can still acquire, especially since it's on non-leather items like rings and trinkets. Also gemming would be more diverse.

Yes, still shoot up sta, and agil, but if your gear is sufficient then stack str. That's the concept. But here's another idea that came up while I was sleeping at work...

How about using agility to boost the healing we receive and it would scale with gear. I mean we already Nurturing Instincts, why not make it applicable to others healing us in bear form? We won't be the sponges that we are heading to be now.

[xebtria]

you mean... e.g. for every 20/100 agility (dunno a number which is balanced :>) we recive 1% extra healing done to us?

mmmmh.

I think this doesn't solve the problem. IF we have a problem while tanking, it would be a huge row of unlucky-non-dodged hits from a boss which is nearly unhealable. so we need another stat besides dodge that helps with migitation.

like block + parry.

see... we have... 40% dodge + lets say 6% miss
a warrior has something like 20% dodge 15% parry 25% block + 10% miss

that means, he has just 1% less avoidance but 25 more migitation. which means that 70 (!)% of all hits are affected by something other than armor (compared to our 46%)
so the chance that he recives a huge row of un-migitated and un-avoided hits is MUCH MUCH lower than for a druid.

and this is the point where the tuning must start.

[baseball]

I don't understand why so many people are bringing up strength in their suggestions when there is no leather armor in wotlk with strength on it except random greens. We get some strength if we wear the tanking rings/necklaces/cloaks since they are intended for all tank classes. But that isn't much strength to have some defensive stat scale from.

It'd be enough if Blizz scaled it properly. Already necks/rings with high agility are better tanking items anyway because strength is a completely useless tanking stat and dodge rating suffers from higher DR than agility. If they actually gave us a reason to like strength, it would help. (it would probably also accidentaly make T6 and sunwell feral stuff insanely awesome again, so I see your point).

I'ed much prefer they make us scale from the stats that are on our current gear instead of always changing classes so that the stats on their previous tier sets are useless all of a sudden, (ie. intell and spellpower on our old feral gear for example).

I'd agree. scaling from AP, ArP or haste is the better choice.