Question about priest raiding in MOP

[Harukaa]

Hey guys. I have some quick questions. I dropped hardcore raiding in early Cataclysm. But, with the new feature "flex" raiding, I was thinking of coming back to pve for something casual (I might also try normal/heroic modes). The problem is, I am a very, very, competitive player. I am now wondering about which spec I should pick. I would like to pick the spec that gives the most output with skill. Basically I am wondering the state of shadow when it comes to dps... Taking a look at DPS's ranking websites I see shadow always in a very very bad spot.

I know that having less "X" dps than a mage or something similar is not going to make my raid wipe, at least in flex/normal mode. But this is the kind of player I am.

I also played holy a lot back in the day, and always loved it. But now all I see is Discipline (spec that I don't like so much). How viable is holy for 10 man?

Ps: by which spec gives the most output I mean which Priest's spec. I am not going to reroll just to get higher numbers.

Thank you all. =)

[snaxattax]

shadow dps is extremely limited. their pure patchwork dps is okay, and their execute range patchwork dps is actually quite high, but they have some of the largest mobility penalties out of all classes. the high movement in PVE raids severely cripples shadow's capabilities - and the fact that our mobility dps also drains our mana has made us non viable for undergear progression on some fights in mop.

if you want to do PVE dps, make a warlock. if you want to play a priest in PVE, go for heals. disc is extremely good, and very fun to play (give it a shot, it's different than it was before and requires much more thinking/planning to be successful than just PWS spam). if you want to play holy, you should look for a 25 man raid. disc's mechanics get stronger with fewer targets (mostly due to capping out spirit shell vs partial spirit shells in 25, and atonement/PWShields hitting 10% of the raid each time instead of 4%). holy's raw HPS is quite high, but it's a spec that gives you much less control over your mana and much weaker cooldowns for keeping tanks alive as well as blunting the force of high damage raid mechanics.

[Ambereldus]

Snax pretty much sums it up. For shadow, movement is crippling and single target dps feels weaker than it should be. At around a 5-10% deviation from other casters, not being able to multi-dot won't hurt too badly, but you'll certainly feel it. I don't have direct experience with healing this tier, but those comments are what I've heard pretty much constantly.

You can make priests work in any spec and be great at your role, but Disc seems better than Holy in 10's, the opposite in 25's. Disc rewards pre-planning (read: sniping) your healing more than holy. Shadow somewhat rewards good foresight, but is quite shallow compared to what it was.

[snaxattax]

i wouldn't say holy is better than disc in 25s, it's just less bad/more viable. mistweavers are *way* better at everything holy priests have in their toolkit.

[Brightmist]

i wouldn't say holy is better than disc in 25s, it's just less bad/more viable. mistweavers are *way* better at everything holy priests have in their toolkit.

Not really.

[Harukaa]

Thanks for the heads up guys. Guess I will try PVE next expansion. =)

[snaxattax]

yes, really. MW have roughly equal raw healing throughput, revival doesn't require channeling, and MW have much better mobility healing.

[Nzete]

Mistweaver healing is RNG with your RNG. Revival is nice; however, the rest of the time, you pray for renewing mists to go to the right people. Then you pray to generate chi to uplift. No thank you.

I raid in a ten man. Normally as discipline. However, when I need higher sustained throughput or the ability to heal and run, I go holy (and let the resto shaman know that all single target is her problem because I just shot myself in the foot and can't do single target healing - I really hate Chakra).

[veiledy0]

I am a very, very, competitive player

The only way you can be both competitive and retain a sane mind as a Shadow Priest is have another Shadow Priest in the raid (preferably a good one), 'cause it's the only class you can compete with. Comparing yourself to any other DPS class as a Shadow Priest will make you wanna slit your wrists.

TL;DR: Play disc, faceroll smite.

[Thelxi]

Spriest movement is only terrible right now because of insanity. Multi-dotting survived this expansion nicely unlike some other dot classes and the rotation is smoother than ever. DPS is not amazing but fine.

[snaxattax]

Mistweaver healing is RNG with your RNG. Revival is nice; however, the rest of the time, you pray for renewing mists to go to the right people. Then you pray to generate chi to uplift. No thank you.

I raid in a ten man. Normally as discipline. However, when I need higher sustained throughput or the ability to heal and run, I go holy (and let the resto shaman know that all single target is her problem because I just shot myself in the foot and can't do single target healing - I really hate Chakra).

what are you talking about mistweavers being 'too rng'? there isn't much rng about the spec at all. you can even hold TFTs buff before a burst/movement phase and keep RM up on 10 people easily. maybe you've never raided with a MW who understands how to use his cooldowns and chi properly, but you can relatively easily set up for a double uplift on an entire 10 man raid every minute.

uplift and chi torpedo wreck whatever aoe on the move holy has, and it's not like disc can't penance, POM, solace and especially PWS spam while moving. since the raid size is so much smaller, PWS spams are super effective in 10s. it's all just a matter of coordinating. you're right that a mistweaver can't go from afk to all of a sudden healing a raid that just took a huge hit of damage, but if you plan cooldown usage around boss abilities it isn't hard at all to fit the mistweaver toolkit to a particular fight.

one of the best maneuvers for disc+MW combo is to track your mistweaver's hots in your raidframes, and if a target doesn't have RM on him going into an aoe bomb, those are your priority targets for PWS before the aoe goes off.

Spriest movement is only terrible right now because of insanity. Multi-dotting survived this expansion nicely unlike some other dot classes and the rotation is smoother than ever. DPS is not amazing but fine.

the problem is that moonkin and warlocks are better multidotters than shadow by a *lot*.

[espoire]

The only way you can be both competitive and retain a sane mind as a Shadow Priest is have another Shadow Priest in the raid (preferably a good one), 'cause it's the only class you can compete with. Comparing yourself to any other DPS class as a Shadow Priest will make you wanna slit your wrists.

TL;DR: Play disc, faceroll smite.

Shadow is balanced around the heals it provides (never mind that many other DPS spec provide amazing utility which they aren't penalized for >.>). If you want to compare to other DPS, add healing done * 1.4 to your damage. That makes it come out pretty close if you use your healing utility well.

[snaxattax]

shadow healing is pretty much irrelevant on every fight but megaera, and even then you avoid way more damage/deaths from beams/cinders with an extra demonic gateway than you get from two divine star casts during rampage. the benefit of a shadow priest's healing when healing is needed is nothing compared to the benefit of a disc priest's dps when healing is needed.

[veiledy0]

shadow healing is pretty much irrelevant on every fight but megaera, and even then you avoid way more damage/deaths from beams/cinders with an extra demonic gateway than you get from two divine star casts during rampage. the benefit of a shadow priest's healing when healing is needed is nothing compared to the benefit of a disc priest's dps when healing is needed.

Ra-Den says hi.

[snaxattax]

so does disc

[Deleted]

Shadow is balanced around the heals it provides (never mind that many other DPS spec provide amazing utility which they aren't penalized for >.>). If you want to compare to other DPS, add healing done * 1.4 to your damage. That makes it come out pretty close if you use your healing utility well.

Damn, we need to make our own formulas to compare ourselves with other classes? Can't I just multiply with 100 and win?

[veiledy0]

Damn, we need to make our own formulas to compare ourselves with other classes? Can't I just multiply with 100 and win?

Then I'll just multiply with 200 and make you look like a bad SP.