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  1. #1
    Fluffy Kitten Grindfreak's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
    Reykjavík, Iceland.

    Mutilate Compendium -out of date-

    I will do my best to always have this reflect current cookie cutter mutilate spec.

    Mutilate Raiding 3.2


    51/13/7 (Includes Glyphs)
    This is the standard Mutilate build.

    51/7/13 is apparantly not the way to go anymore according to This post.

    Things vary based on your current stats and current raid instance.

    Murder vs Quick Recovery vs Fleet Footed

    these are the three talents you can choose between, currently in naxxramas, everything is undead except for Faerlina and Maexxna.
    which makes Murder pretty useless as a talent there.

    If you are expertise capped, Fleet Footed should be your choice for naxxramas, if you arent Quick Recovery is
    a good choice.

    Now when you enter any raid instance other than Naxxramas, Murder will be your choice regardless to your current stats.
    Which makes 51/13/7 (Includes glyphs) The ideal choice.

    Poison choices:

    If you are interested in how the new Poison mechanics work post 3.1 check Voij's excellent thread on the subject Here.

    You will want to run with Instant Poison IX on your mainhand. and Deadly Poison IX on your offhand.

    The reason you keep Instant Poison on your mainhand, is because you have a chance at proccing poisons when using mutilate and finishers.

    An important note: Your Mutilate poison requirements can be fulfilled by other rogues and hunters Serpent Sting, which is why you do not need to wait for a DP application before using another mutilate.


    Cut to the Chase is the biggest change to Mutilate's rotation considering how it worked in TBC.
    Now you can refresh Slice and Dice with Eviscerate or Envenom.

    There is no static rotation for mutilate, its very dynamic and requires you to actively watch for timers on your debuffs, and buffs alike. Get a tracking addon, its a lot more efficient than constantly looking for your timers in between tons of other buffs and debuffs.

    Generally you'll start off Slice and Dice and Hunger for Blood however you like, but make sure you have SnD running as a 5 pointer before you go for the list below, using a one point Slice and Dice and following it with a one point Envenom does in fact refresh Slice and Dice to its 5 point potential.

    Generally in a 25 man raid you can rely on dps warriors or feral druids on keeping the bleeds up
    for Hunger for Blood, if you however dont have this luxury you can open on the boss with a garrote or go for a really quick rupture,
    just make sure you start combat from stealth.

    A few tracking addons:
    Need to know on WowInterface
    Rogue Power Bars on Curse
    Ice-Hud on Curse
    Event Horizon on WowInterface

    Priority list;

    Mutilate up to 4+ combo points

    If Hunger for Blood is dropping below 5 seconds, refresh it.

    If Rupture is still up, use Envenom, if deadly poison is not stacked to the same amount as your combo
    points, pool your energy and use it at the last possible moment, preferably right after a
    Deadly Poison tick to maximize its effect.

    Pre 3.1 Hunger for Blood had a 60 energy penalty if it dropped, this is no longer the case, makes it alot easier to "recover" from a faulty rotation.
    This most likely gives Slice and Dice a priority
    on being refreshed over HfB but it is debatable.
    Always give Slice and Dice priority on being refreshed over rupture.

    if you have the chance, pool your energy before letting that ability off to let Slice and Dice
    or Hunger for Blood
    maximize its potential and to fit in
    two mutilates during the envenom buff to increase poison procs.

    Important note: All special attacks including Finishers can be dodged if you
    are not expertise capped, this can seriously mess up rotations if unlucky, if
    for an example you decide to pool energy before using envenom, and using it
    with 2-3 seconds remaining on Slice n dice, this can get dodged,
    and you might not notice until its too late, and server lag prevents you from re'using it again,
    making your slice n dice drop, and resetting your rotation.

    Personally I've had 3 envenom's dodged in a row, truly shows the value of expertise.


    For stat weights , EP values and further info, seek The Pocked Guide.

    Hit Table
    This all assumes 5/5 Precision.

    With no added buffs or debuffs:
    Specials: 99
    Poisons: 315
    White: 722

    With either Imp FF or Misery:
    Specials: 99
    Poisons: 237
    White: 722

    With either Imp FF or Misery and Heroic Presence:
    Specials: 66
    Poisons: 210
    White: 689

    with only Heroic Presence:
    Specials: 66
    Poisons: 288
    White: 689


    The value of expertise seems to elude some people, to make it simple;
    in pve, raidbosses have a chance to dodge your attacks even though you stand behind them, with expertise, you can negate this.

    Bosses have a 6.25% - 6.50% chance to dodge your attacks, this goes for all main attacks (mutilate I.E,) all finishers and white damage.

    Each point of expertise gives you a 0.25% reduction on being dodged.

    with no racials,
    you will need 214 expertise rating from gear, or 26 expertise points.

    with no racials, but 2/2 Weapon Expertise:
    you will need 132 expertise rating from gear, or 16 expertise points.

    With the human racial wielding either swords or fists, and specced into Weapon Expertise:
    you will need 107 expertise rating from gear, or 13 expertise points.

    simply put, no matter what racials or talents you are using, if you read 26/26 expertise in your character tab, you are capped.

    The attack table, hit vs crit vs expertise vs glancing blows
    Two roll system vs single roll system

    first for a few simple facts:

    All bosses reduce your crit by 4.8%, this is 3% from the difference in your weapon skill vs bosses defense level, and 0.6% per level difference, boss level mobs are always counted as 3 levels above you.

    Yellow attacks and white auto-attacks do not work the same when it comes to the attack table. Yellow attacks use a so called two-roll system and white auto attacks however use a one-roll system. Simply put: the crit cap for specials is not affected by avoidances like dodge, parry, miss, glancing blows, etc Therefore:

    the crit cap for specials is 104.8% at its highest.

    Since white auto-attacks are single roll, the crit cap for them would be affected by avoidances. Therefore, you could calculate the crit cap by subtracting your combined avoidance chance (miss + dodge + parry + glance + block) from 104.8%. As long as you are behind the mob, parry and block are 0%. Glance is always 24%. Therefore:

    the crit cap on white attacks is 80.08% at its highest.


    Enchant Weapon - Berserking
    Arcanum of Torment
    Greater Inscription of the Axe
    Master's Inscription of the Axe - Inscription only -
    Enchant Chest - Powerful Stats
    Enchant Cloak - Major Agility
    Swordguard Embroidery - Tailoring only -
    Flexweave Underlay - Engineering only -
    Enchant Bracers - Greater Assault
    Fur Lining - Attack Power - Leatherworking only -
    Enchant Gloves - Crusher
    Hyperspeed Accelerators - Engineering only -
    Icescale Leg Armor
    Enchant Boots - Icewalker
    Nitro Boosts - Engineering only -
    Eternal Belt Buckle
    Enchant Ring - Assault - Enchanting only -


    Metagem: Relentless Earthsiege Diamond

    Now looking at the EP values of Hit and Expertise,

    If you have a socketbonus, and are wondering whether to gem to get it or not,
    you can use your EP values to determine if its worth placing a purple/orange/green gem or not.

    Now when it comes to deciding whether to gem the expertise, agility or attack power versions of each gem,
    you'll need to spreadsheet your gear to get an exact result, they are all very close on dps.

    For more detailed information on gems, consult the The Pocked Guide.


    This is fairly simple, there are three mandatory glyphs for Mutilate raiding.
    Glyph of Hunger for Blood
    Glyph of Mutilate
    Glyph of Rupture

    There is another additional one, but it requires additional testing before its value can be determined.
    Glyph of Tricks of the Trade

    On Minor Glyphs, its completely up to you.

    Spreadsheets and how to use them:

    Aldriana's Combat and Mutilate Spreadsheets
    Mavanas' Rogue DPS Simulation Spreadsheet

    How to Use a Spreadsheet: Maximizing DPS - Credits go to CeeKay

    Buffs Beneficial to the Rogue:
    Lets get a nice overview of what others can buff us with in a raid setting.
    Note that if two or more abilities provide the same buff they do not stack.
    I'm skipping Hunter Pet buffs and debuffs for this and the next part.

    Also note that the spellpower percantage to crit and damage do infact buff the rogues poison damage,
    Envenom however does not take the benefit from the spellcrit buff and debuff.

    5% Spellcrit
    Elemental Oath - Elemental Shaman
    Moonkin Aura - Balance Druid

    Agility & Strength
    Horn of Winter - any Death Knight
    Strength of Earth Totem - any Shaman - improved by ET

    Raw Attack Power
    Battle Shout - any Warrior - improved by CP
    Blessing of Might - any Paladin - improved by IM

    10% Attack Power
    Abomination's Might - Blood Death Knight
    Trueshot Aura - Markmanship Hunter
    Unleashed Rage - Enhancement Shaman

    30% haste for 40 seconds
    Bloodlust(H) & Heroism(A) - Any Shaman

    3% Damage Increase
    Sanctified Retribution - Retribution Paladin
    Ferocious Inspiration - Beast Mastery Hunter

    3% Haste
    Swift Retribution - Retribution Paladin
    Improved Moonkin Form - Balance Druid

    5% Crit
    Leader of the Pack - Feral Druid
    Rampage - Fury Warrior

    Windfury Totem - any Shaman improved by IWT
    Improved Icy Talons - Frost Death Knight

    Mark of the Wild - any Druid improved by IMotW

    Stats Percentage
    Blessing of Kings - any Paladin

    DeBuffs Beneficial to the Rogue:
    Here we have debuffs others can apply to our enemies that are beneficial to us.

    Spelldamage Taken
    Curse of Elements - any Warlock - improved by Malediction
    Earth and Moon - Balance Druid
    Ebon Plaguebringer - Unholy Death Knight

    Spellcrit Taken
    Winters Chill - Frost Mage
    Improved Scorch - Fire Mage

    Major Armor Reduction
    Expose Armor - any Rogue
    Sunder Armor - any Warrior

    Minor Armor Reduction
    Curse of Recklessness - any Warlock
    Faerie Fire - any Druid

    Added Bleed Damage
    Mangle - Feral Druid
    Trauma - Arms Warrior

    3% Critical Hit
    Heart of the Crusader - Retribution Paladin
    Master Poisoner - Assassination Rogue
    Totem of Wrath - Elemental Shaman

    4% Physical Damage
    Blood Frenzy - Arms Warrior
    Savage Combat - Combat Rogue

    3% Spell Hit
    Improved Faerie Fire - Balance Druid
    Misery - Shadow Priest

    Thanks & Informative links:
    Elitist Jerks
    The Pocketguide
    The Raid Comp

    Big thanks go to all the people that put time into finding this out.

    "Friends don't let friends be gnomes."

  2. #2

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Someone who can, PLEASE sticky this or it will just be gone in a half day....
    (Did he actually make the step by step guide as i suggested the other day? :O )
    Seriously, sticky it so people have a chance to read it, it should hopefully reduce the number of questions people have about the rogue class at its current points.
    Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the world together.

  3. #3

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Good post, posting to keep on front page.

    (Yes I registered to post this)

  4. #4

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Go Go sticky this!

  5. #5
    Mechagnome frozenpatato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Québec (Canada)

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Sticky this please, very informative post. Just rename the title to 3.0.8 .. 3.08 bugs me somehow ;D

    (I'm wondering why every sticky attempt are succesful except mine..)

  6. #6

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Sticky, and link to/lock threads asking "NEED HALP PLX WHUT DOES I DO?!?!".

  7. #7

    Re: Mutilate 3.08


  8. #8

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Hyperspeed accelerators are arguably better then the Crusher Enchant with the CD down to 1 min. The Accelerators are roughly equal to 57 static haste now.

    EP values
    Crusher-48.4 (using a weight of 1.1 for AP)

    Most min/maxers aint engineers though.

  9. #9

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Quote Originally Posted by Grindfreak

    These EP stats vary based on gear, but this is a rather reliable quick-list.

    Str: 1.1
    Agi: 2.0
    Crit: 1.6
    Exp: 2.0
    Haste: 1.6
    ArPen: 1.1

    Below the specials hit cap hit is worth 2.9
    Below the poisons hit cap hit is worth 2.2
    above both caps hit is worth 1.4
    What does the EP mean ? i dont get what u/ej mean by those numbers can some1 clear it out for me, thanks

  10. #10

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    *bets that the upcoming rogue dps buffs make combat stronger than mut again

  11. #11

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarbaz
    What does the EP mean ? i dont get what u/ej mean by those numbers can some1 clear it out for me, thanks
    Sort of how much one point of the different stats is worth compared to attack power for a mutilate rogue.
    1str is worth 1.1ep as you can see. Whereas 1agi is worth 2ep, showing that agility is much better than strength for rogues.

    Hit rating is less effective when you no longer miss with specials and poisons, meaning different ep values depending on how much hit you have.
    EU forum is ignored.
    Game balance is not ok.
    Blue posters contradict themselves.
    Blizzards attitude towards us players sucks.

  12. #12

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    EP = Equivalent Point
    (1EP = 1AP)

    Just simply a means of weighing up (quickly) which items/stats are better.

    A example would be 5Agi vs 6Crit
    5Agi= (5x2) 10EP
    6 Crit = (6x1.6) 9.6EP
    The EP calculation shows that the Agi is better to take.

    You can never blindly follow this as you need a good balance of stats (hence the need for the spreadsheets) but it's a very good rough guide.

    It's a nicely copied post.

  13. #13
    Fluffy Kitten Grindfreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Reykjavík, Iceland.

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    I will update this soon to simply explain EP values in the Official Post, I will also link to the current spreadsheet,
    including the spreadsheet you use to determine your personal EP values, with a simple guide on how to do that.

    I just hope people have patience with me, this is still a work in progress.

    "Friends don't let friends be gnomes."

  14. #14

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Are you giving enough credit to the people who worked this out then?
    EU forum is ignored.
    Game balance is not ok.
    Blue posters contradict themselves.
    Blizzards attitude towards us players sucks.

  15. #15
    Fluffy Kitten Grindfreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Reykjavík, Iceland.

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Quote Originally Posted by Snopptrollet
    Are you giving enough credit to the people who worked this out then?
    there is a thanks list that will expand at the bottom.

    "Friends don't let friends be gnomes."

  16. #16
    The Patient Roar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Up, up to the top.. sticky wtb.
    Thanks for posting this on mmo, not everyone actually know elitis nor whatever else site thats around.

    And for the record.. you did put a thanks list in the end, so there should be no worries if somone feels something is missing or whatever else, visit Elitist

    Once you go troll, you'll never reroll.
    To bad I'm an undead! ~ Tøffelladden

  17. #17

    Re: Mutilate 3.08

    Op thanks for the post

    Not true. I think we've already established that I'm a prick. If I'm a prick with a prick I can't be a bitch, now, can I? But as they say, the hungry think about bread, so if you're seeing bitches everywere.... man... get laid... It'll help ya.

  18. #18
    The Patient Roar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Re: Mutilate 3.0.8

    Please, sticky this if possible.. would be nice, as said.. to have it stickied on the mmo's forum to =)
    Again, it was mostly to Buyp (??).. yes Bring up your post Grindfreak.
    Once you go troll, you'll never reroll.
    To bad I'm an undead! ~ Tøffelladden

  19. #19

    Re: Mutilate 3.0.8

    Too bad EJ didn't copyright that thread..

    You could have at least put the exact location of where you copied the info from.

    Quitting the fail that WoW has become when Aion comes out. No point to play hardcore when any idiot can have the same gear as you.

  20. #20

    Re: Mutilate 3.0.8

    Quote Originally Posted by brokenmirror
    Too bad EJ didn't copyright that thread..

    You could have at least put the exact location of where you copied the info from.

    Would it really fucking matter? If anyone asks, I'm sure the first place he points is EJ, as do the rest of the non-retards on this forum who try to help people.

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