51 point balance talent useless for PVE?

[Degrador]

I read somewhere that the stars drop every 1 second each mob at max. If that was true, then using it on single targets wastes 50% of its potential (without countig the missing splash effect), because it is 10s up. 20 stars in 10s with 1 star per second would need 20s. Yuck :-\

Yes that's true, but if ultimately the DPS against a single target is an increase, then you're still going to use it. I still don't see this as a deal breaker

That would probably cause problems with PvP, becuase players aren't "aggroed", and if it ignored players that are out of combat, then it'll be worse than it is now. It would be a niiiice fix for PvE, but it wouldn't be the first time PvP implications prevented neccessary and viable changes for PvE.
(Yes, they could distinguish players from mobs easily and implement a different behaviour for each, but that could have been the answer to sooo many spells in the entire game by now, but was never considered in other places than CC durations. For some odd reason Blizzard trys and trys to keep spells the same for PvE and PvP, whereas it could be a mighty tool for balancing both nicely without affecting each other so much.)

Yeah, possibly, but I still think they can come up with a reasonable work around for this bug.

[Isashi]

meh ... i like it ...

id like it to do more dmg, or maybe focus it on a single target with splash damage around it ...

but for the most part (single target) its about 10k dmg for a GC while continuing my normal rotation ... and then for AoE its a screen full of numbers so i end up running into a wall for a laugh ...

a possible fix without OP'ing it from my point of view (bearing in mind i dont PvP):
**Return mana equal to 2% of max mana pool each time a star crits.
**Cast on a single target calling forth 20 stars to fall from the heavens, dealing splash damage to all targets within 5 yards of initial target.

would be like a mini-innervate every 3 mins assuming a raid buffed 40% crit rate you could get 8 star crits for 16% of your mana back (3840 roughly for me raid buffed) ... and its a "debuff" on target so cant be interrupted by a stun, or death, i guess youd still be able to dispell it for pvp reasons

just my opinion/suggestion

[Druitt]

I've spec'd out of it and won't spec back unless they increase the coefficient by about an insane amount.

It's got a range that's too large for anything except AoE grinding, but if you waste a glyph on it, you're throwing away your distance and asking to soak up damage, PvE-wise. PvP-wise, you'll be CC'd and ganked and it will do nothing. It's minor damage and really only good for keeping someone from capping a flag or something.

They need to change how it works dramatically. Have the splash pull out of stealth. Have it apply Faerie Fire to anything it damages. Have it buff the Druid if a star can't hit something, either because of CC or lack of targets. Cut the cooldown in half. Do something BIG, not tweak the damage by some small amount.

[Endil]

I've spec'd out of it and won't spec back unless they increase the coefficient by about an insane amount.

It's got a range that's too large for anything except AoE grinding, but if you waste a glyph on it, you're throwing away your distance and asking to soak up damage, PvE-wise. PvP-wise, you'll be CC'd and ganked and it will do nothing. It's minor damage and really only good for keeping someone from capping a flag or something.

They need to change how it works dramatically. Have the splash pull out of stealth. Have it apply Faerie Fire to anything it damages. Have it buff the Druid if a star can't hit something, either because of CC or lack of targets. Cut the cooldown in half. Do something BIG, not tweak the damage by some small amount.

Wow. Do you realize what this would do to game balance?

[Saelind]

Wow. Do you realize what this would do to game balance?

Living proof of the rogue QQ..
U made my day ;D

[Jathro]

I never thought Starfall, or any of the Tier 9 talents, were worth speccing into.

[Druitt]

Wow. Do you realize what this would do to game balance?

Not necessarily ALL of the above. Was making the kinds of suggestions I think they can make straightforwardly. The change or changes that need to be made probably aren't possible software-wise right now.

As far as I can tell, splash damage will currently pull out of stealth, so that's a no-brainer. Putting FF on everything that's damaged isn't a huge deal. FF is a so-so buff, but it at least forces a cooldown to be used to stealth, which is appropriate since Starfall's on a 3-minute cooldown.

I didn't mention, but at a minimum, they need to change Starfall to not target or damage mobs unless they have someone on their aggro table, so you can't pull un-aggro'd mobs. That would make it useful in the majority of instance pulls -- where it is currently unusable.

I'd personally recommend that if a star cannot target anything -- either because there is no target or because the Druid is CC'd so the star can't fall -- it should place a charge on the Druid that stacks up to 20 and lasts for 20 seconds and will discharge the entire damage from a star -- including splash damage -- to anyone damaging the Druid. If the Druid has 12 charges and you damage them, POW, you get hit by 12 stars.

This makes CC'ing the Druid a valid counter to Starfall, but not a freebie: you can't just gank the Druid -- something that's ridiculously easy because of a lack of defenses.

[Utal]

Reduce the AoE range to 10 yards... fixed.


Stop fucking QQing on it, it's not that bad an Ability.

[mutantboy]

lol I used it in an instance once - I think I managed to pull the whole instance at once...

It's great for pulling mobs of animals when I'm farming for food though. I think when they change the coeficcient perhaps making it a little more concentrated would be a good thing.

Some 51point talents though define the class - penance, titans grip, all the hunter talents.
Some are situational, (or) barely required/hardly used and very meh

Druids kinda get screwed 3 ways -starfall (nerfed into ordinaryness) wildgrowth (ditto) berserk (good but hardly defineing)
(I'm a little reluctant to compare but would you rather have the Pally finishing point - or the druid ones...)

[axxey]

It should apply our debuffs, earth and moon and fearie fire to all things it hits. Not always a DK giving the 13% magic.

It has a big indicator over our heads when we pop it in PvP saying "CC this target", make it continue going while CCed or at least not give the big indicator.

[Dalanos]

Living proof of the rogue QQ..
U made my day ;D

Um no! That shit is just retardedly overpowered. An you're and idiot to think other wise.

[Deleted]

Well Resto 51p talent is useless for PVP.

[nemex]

Just a couple of ideas to make it possibly more useful on boss fights:

- Maybe change the spell so that it deals more damage if its hitting less targets, lets say 3x more if its only hitting one target? This could turn overpowered for arenas though.

- Make it deal more damage to targets affected by Moonfire or another applicable debuff so that it seems more like a "focus" spell on bosses.

- Add an effect to the actual Starfall Buff that we get, maybe have it increase our Starfire damage by 10 or 15% while active. Increase the Duration of Starfall, but also increase the time between each star. A longer duration might not make it completely useless in pvp as it would still be up after we get feared/stunned etc. and not be completely covered.


Just some simple ideas. Thoughts/comments?

[anyaka21]

personally, I don't see how pulling someone out of stealth is a huge deal. Sure rogues qq hardcore about it, yet it is a 51pt talent...on a boomkin (hardly a massively popular choice for a druid atm), so it wouldn't be rampant, but as some have said a dk is the druid counter, thus why can't starfall be a legitimate counter to a rogue.

I would also say, there needs to be a better starfall glyph, huge range reduction but also a huge cd reduction too, thus making it much more useful in pve. something like reduces the range by 50% but also reduces the cd by 50%.

[Computereasy]

to be honest i feel naked with out star fall...but only in pvp...i agree that i it is usless to spec it for pve but in pvp i find that it helps in arena when we start the battle it really messes people up...you get a lot of WTF noobs in arena though lulz

[Soxes]

Hey look at Shadow Priest 51-point talent....useless in every aspect of the game, except chinese gold farming.

[Zelven]

it's actually not consider an AoE

because AoE cant be spell deflected

Starfall, however, can

There has been a change with AoEs, actually.

Would you consider Thunderstorm to be an AoE? Because I've had the wondrous pleasure of watching my boyfriend knock himself back due to a Thunderstorm being reflected.
Would you consider Living Bomb's explosion to be AoE? The explosion has been reflected onto myself and left an ignite plus an impact stun.
Would you consider Pestilence to be an AoE? I've had that hit me as well (thankfully, it did not spread the diseases onto me. xP)

There are quite a few AoEs in the game that CAN be reflected. Some cannot, true; but that does not negate the ones that can to be any less of an AoE.

[DiscoMoonkin]

and yet i have not seen a reflected Blizzard, Hurricane or Rain of Fire

Thunderstorm is interesting because it is consider an aoe and it shouldn't spell deflect (I would consider calling a bug imho)

Living Bomb starts off as a single target if I remember correctly, therefore, it can be spell deflected

And Pestilence also requires an initial target.

When I mean AoE, I mean anything that doesn't start out as selecting a target

Which includes:

Seed of Corruption, Avenger Shield

I consider AoE such as Divine Storm, Thunderclap, Typhoon, and Cone of Cold

[bawkbawkboom]

After reading all of these posts, i've come to a conclusion......one GCD for a 10sec non channeled(ish, more buffs yourself to do the dmg...as it can be messed over by stuns/cc's etc) spell that does approximately 7-8k damage for its duration (single target terms). This is equivilent to ONE Starfire noob crit (i used to crit this at 70 boomkin), or a nice Wrath crit........so in theory, we are being given a SF/Wrath crit (that costs more mana) every 3 mins.......depending on YOUR haste, it saves me about 1.3seconds of casting time on a SF, and like, none on a Wrath.......PER 3 MINS........woop-de-f@#@/{}-do!!. how is that worth 51 point talent...........imho it isnt - i am speccing out of it.
Also, glyphing it is a waste of time, i tried it, noticed little difference. In order to glyph it you need to remove yourself an important glyph such as Glyph of Starfire, imo, again, no where near worth the reglyph.


To put this into terms...... arcane explosion - breaks stealth, instant cast, cant be inturupted (unless silenced/locked/stunned before hand ofc) no CD. Spamming 5 of these a mage can (depending on spec) do similar amounts, if not more, damage in the same specified time.
On the other hand you say its good for its AE effects.......kind of, but with a 3 min CD its not a viable GCD waste over spamming Hurricane. In AE terms, i would rather go for Typhoon....lol! Its more damage per mob and only has a 30 second CD......instant cast, no channeling, and doesnt get effected by CC etc etc....more worth a GCD imho, even without Gale Winds.....do i need to say more?

As previously said by others, the only way Blizzard can make this a viable 51pt talent spell is by buffing its coefficient quite considerably. But we have to wait and see with the 3.1 patch notes for that, until then, im speccing out of it.

This gets a vote of uselessness from me in its current form.




Edit: Glyphing Typhoon is also more viable than glyphing Starfall, as the glyph for Typhoon is a minor one, and tbh, the minor glyphs that may be of use to a boomkin are pretty terrible. (I use it to replace glyph of the wild......as our Tree Druids tend to do the GotW buffing.

[Dooudad]

1 those saying its not an AoE are right, its an arua and those traped with in it become targets for target based aoes, its a consept that was used in many other games and actually has been done in a few wow boss fights (though not many and not exactly this way).

2 only really shineing momment for star fall would be if they brought out a highly nature resistant boss and lol then you would have more worries about wrath then star fall geting a boost.

as far as feral 51 point tallents berserk is nice, for fights i get feared in, like... umm, that dwarf in heroic nexus... umm old world bosses that i solo... sorry trying to think of other situations as typically i dont have jsut 3 targets on me and swipe is higher agro per cd on 4+ targets. its good in kitty form... but i rather dps in bear as i dont have kitty tallents.... yar umm. the 51 point tallents were overly rushed, typically ohhh that sounds cool but ohh once your geared up and doing raids its not as useful as your dreams had it being.