"new" talents changes aren't new

[mmoelf]

i don't understand some things. this is what i don't get...

* Improved Water Elemental – this talent has been removed and replaced with a new talent that grants Replenishment (similar to Shadow priests).

didn't imp WE already restore mana? oh yeah it does... 0.6% to all party members in 100yd. so they are replacing the talent with something that does the same thing? (hopefully better...) how is this "new"?

* We are also working on a way to give frost mages Ice Lance “Shatter combos” in PvE.

didn't we have this with fingers of frost already? we talking pve raiding? cuz in pve shatter combos exist already...

* We are also working on more survivability for Fire spec in PvP.

molten shields, disorient from DB, knockback from blastwave and blazing speed don't count? or they need more?

* We are also working on making Spirit a more useful and interesting stat for all mages.

this is the only one that is "new" in this list. as a whole, these listed "changes" are lackluster imo.

[davesurfer]

* We are also working on making Spirit a more useful and interesting stat for all mages.

this is the only one that is "new" in this list. as a whole, these listed "changes" are lackluster imo.

I guess we wait and see. This is really vague, not even a hint

[Beaavis]

Yes fire mages need more survivability, considering being hit to proc blazing speed likely means you're close to dead or OOM with no talented mana shield or icebarrier.

[Daeveren]

* We are also working on making Spirit a more useful and interesting stat for all mages.

some spelldmg as a percent of spirit would be imba, but that % has to be very low, else mages dps will obvious increase too much. or perhaps a spirit/crit conversion, something like 100 spi = 0.5 or 1 % crit

[kalewaite]

* We are also working on a way to give frost mages Ice Lance “Shatter combos” in PvE.

didn't we have this with fingers of frost already? we talking pve raiding? cuz in pve shatter combos exist already...

Yeah, pretty sure they are talking about raiding

[mmoelf]

Yeah, pretty sure they are talking about raiding

well, as i remember, fingers of frost enabled shatter combo's on bosses. so this "change" is pretty meaningless since it's a skill frost mages already had to start with.

[afkalmighty]

* We are also working on more survivability for Fire spec in PvP.

molten shields, disorient from DB, knockback from blastwave and blazing speed don't count? or they need more?

please, tell me that you tried pvping as fire and your so uber skilled that you don't find fire survivability to be an issue, please..

[Nighty]

well, as i remember, fingers of frost enabled shatter combo's on bosses. so this "change" is pretty meaningless since it's a skill frost mages already had to start with.

the whole satter combo isn't really usefull in normal raiding. using ice lance instead of a frostbolt is a total waste of dps. they would have to pump up the dmg of ice lance by quite a bit to make it valueable.

[arnorian]

the whole satter combo isn't really usefull in normal raiding. using ice lance instead of a frostbolt is a total waste of dps. they would have to pump up the dmg of ice lance by quite a bit to make it valueable.

I think he was referring to buffering in an ice lance into your second FB off of FoF to get all 3 spells to crit (i.e. shatter combo).

[Abandon]

It is still a DPS loss. All it takes is one little bit of latency to make your Icelance count the target as not frozen and hit for 500 damage, costing you 1.5 seconds. It is always better to just keep casting frostbolts, as they can proc additional FoFs and have no risk associated with using them.

[arnorian]

It is still a DPS loss. All it takes is one little bit of latency to make your Icelance count the target as not frozen and hit for 500 damage, costing you 1.5 seconds. It is always better to just keep casting frostbolts, as they can proc additional FoFs and have no risk associated with using them.

Ehh, said latency issues can be rendered mostly moot if you use a timer like quartz that gives you a good buffering window based on your connections latency.

[Elethor]

* We are also working on making Spirit a more useful and interesting stat for all mages.

this is the only one that is "new" in this list. as a whole, these listed "changes" are lackluster imo.

Just what I want to see.............more healers crying that I'm trying to take their gear... And arc are pretty much the only spec of mage that even uses spirit

[Abandon]

Ehh, said latency issues can be rendered mostly moot if you use a timer like quartz that gives you a good buffering window based on your connections latency.

Mostly moot, but still not completely reliable. Also, if your second Frostbolt before the Icelance procs FoF, then you have wasted one of the charges on an Icelance.

[Baever]

the whole satter combo isn't really usefull in normal raiding. using ice lance instead of a frostbolt is a total waste of dps. they would have to pump up the dmg of ice lance by quite a bit to make it valueable.

No.

He's talking about chaining an Ice Lance off the second FoF charge, as well as a frostbolt, which can currently be done if your latency isn't completely terrible.

They also need to return to their focus on Deep Freeze, fitting it into the PvE rotation again.

[Nirual]

i don't understand some things. this is what i don't get...

* Improved Water Elemental – this talent has been removed and replaced with a new talent that grants Replenishment (similar to Shadow priests).

didn't imp WE already restore mana? oh yeah it does... 0.6% to all party members in 100yd. so they are replacing the talent with something that does the same thing? (hopefully better...) how is this "new"?

WE works differently from Replenishment in that it restores mana to all mana users but much slower. In 5-10 man content you'll get much more out of Replenishment, assuming that your 25mans already have a Replenishment class (and even then having another will get more uptime of the buff if I'm not mistaken.

* We are also working on a way to give frost mages Ice Lance “Shatter combos” in PvE.

didn't we have this with fingers of frost already? we talking pve raiding? cuz in pve shatter combos exist already...

I'm sure they mean raids / snare immune mobs. FoF procs help but it's still a huge loss of shatter opportunities over a mob that you can freeze.

* We are also working on more survivability for Fire spec in PvP.

molten shields, disorient from DB, knockback from blastwave and blazing speed don't count? or they need more?

Can't really comment on that but I'm guessing it'd be more in the area of actual damage reduction

* We are also working on making Spirit a more useful and interesting stat for all mages.

this is the only one that is "new" in this list. as a whole, these listed "changes" are lackluster imo.

[frosty]

It is still a DPS loss. All it takes is one little bit of latency to make your Icelance count the target as not frozen and hit for 500 damage, costing you 1.5 seconds. It is always better to just keep casting frostbolts, as they can proc additional FoFs and have no risk associated with using them.

i have never had this problem even at times when ive had 1k ms

[Abandon]

While I congratulate you on your timing, you are still wasting damage. The second frostbolt proccing Fingers of Frost means that you waste one of the charges on the Icelance that you are using to get the ghost crit off of the end of FoF.

If you just cast Frostbolts, then you will have consistantly higher damage. That is why Blizzard want to bring shatter combos back to frost mages in PVE, at the moment frost mages are most rewarded by just casting frostbolts and nothing else.

[mmoelf]

please, tell me that you tried pvping as fire and your so uber skilled that you don't find fire survivability to be an issue, please..

actually, i've not had much problems with fire in pvp. i do think that fire needs a little more tweak compared to frost and arcane. however, the original intend of this post was to point out the statements blizzard made and to show that we have most of the stuff they mention already, even if it's in a lesser form than what they are planning