new shadowform.

[Thranduin]

If Manip is right it would be a buff even without shadow power affecting dots.
Assuming 40% crit raidbuffed:
3.0.8: VT - 5 ticks - +8% dmg per tick
3.1.0: VT - 5 ticks - 40% chance to deal +50/100% dmg per tick => +20/40% dmg per tick (if my math is correct)
If that is the case then shadow power affecting dots would be a little over the top I suppose.

As for DP: coefficient should be 0.2 per tick if I'm not mistaken; assuming 1800 spellpower in PvP gear:
1376*1.45+1800*8*0.2= 4875dmg for the whole duration; 4875*0.15 = ~731dmg. Of course still crap but not as low as 300.

[AetherMcLoud]

but why would you assume a figure like 1000 when our dots like more than twice that figure.

so less of the kkthxbai bullshit

OMG do you pretend to be stupid so you can troll some more, or are you really that boneheaded?

He assumed 1000 because it is a round number and easy to take percentages of. He could have assumed 3476 but good luck calculating 14,5% of 3476 in your head.

[Abandon]

Unbreakable Will now reduces the duration of all Silence, Stun and Fear effects by 30%, up from 15%.

[Ananan]

Hopefully dots applied with Inner Focus will actually get the increased crit-chance now. It seems a bit unlikely though since the interaction with SW:P would be weird no matter how they did it.

[Direshadow]

Well I guess i'll be replacing some of my spell power gems with crit gems.

[Lostprophet]

Well I guess i'll be replacing some of my spell power gems with crit gems.

I dont think this is going to happen..

Even if Crit will be as good as Spellpower (i doubt that), a 19Sp gem > 16Crit gem

[Thunderball]

300-500 damage isn't burst. I probably do more damage in melee...

It's not 15% out of one tick. It's 15% out of full duration damage. Means 300-500 x 8.

[plspirit]

Well I guess i'll be replacing some of my spell power gems with crit gems.

why should be crit better than now? (besides the critmeta)

we NOW have literally 200% critting dots, and they are NOT random, this is a certain 100% critting dot, with critdamage divided on all ticks

what we get, if dots are not affected by shadowpower (as the talent now assumes) we get 150% critting dot that ARE random, bad luck and you just fight a 3min fight having 5% less crit than in your character window (to be fair, it also works the other way round, but think about murphy )

[AetherMcLoud]

It's not 15% out of one tick. It's 15% out of full duration damage. Means 300-500 x 8.

You're telling me your DP does ~27k damage overall, and ~3k3 per tick? In PVP? Really? Do you even believe that yourself?

[Deleted]

If Manip is right it would be a buff even without shadow power affecting dots.
Assuming 40% crit raidbuffed:
3.0.8: VT - 5 ticks - +8% dmg per tick
3.1.0: VT - 5 ticks - 40% chance to deal +50/100% dmg per tick => +20/40% dmg per tick (if my math is correct)
If that is the case then shadow power affecting dots would be a little over the top I suppose.

As for DP: coefficient should be 0.2 per tick if I'm not mistaken; assuming 1800 spellpower in PvP gear:
1376*1.45+1800*8*0.2= 4875dmg for the whole duration; 4875*0.15 = ~731dmg. Of course still crap but not as low as 300.

Sorry to say but your math is just wrong.

In 3.0.8 dots have 100% chance of dealing Crit% amount more damage. In case of 40% crit chance, every tick has 40% more damage and so the dot has also 40% more damage in total. (1.4*tick*5) This translates to having a 40% chance to do 100% more damage.

In 3.1.0 (assuming 150% crit damage) you will have 40% chance of dealing 50% more damage, which is a huge nerf. As a nice bonus, dots will now also be affected by resilience 3 times with dot reduction, crit chance reduction and crit damage reduction.

I hope the dot crit damage will be 200%, since we really can't afford to have all dots on 150% crit damage, because it would destroy spriest scaling horribly (again). All other classes have 200% crit damage atleast, many even have more on key abilities.

[AetherMcLoud]

Sorry to say but your math is just wrong.

In 3.0.8 dots have 100% chance of dealing Crit% amount more damage. In case of 40% crit chance, every tick has 40% more damage and so the dot has also 40% more damage in total. (1.4*tick*5) This translates to having a 40% chance to do 100% more damage.

In 3.1.0 (assuming 150% crit damage) you will have 40% chance of dealing 50% more damage, which is a huge nerf. As a nice bonus, dots will now also be affected by resilience 3 times with dot reduction, crit chance reduction and crit damage reduction.

Your math is wrong too, because you assume that right now our pseudo-crit dots are getting the benefits of +crit debuffs, +% damage debuffs, which they do not.

The dot damage itself does get +% damage modifiers, but the pseudo-crit-damage from shadowform does not, neither are +crit debuffs there.

So if the dot really crits, that crit takes +% damage modifiers into account, and also it should benefit from +crit debuffs.

That's why it's not as easy to say if this is a nerf or a buff.

[plspirit]

Your math is wrong too, because you assume that right now our pseudo-crit dots are getting the benefits of +crit debuffs, +% damage debuffs, which they do not.

they do, you just have to recast them when the buffs/debuffs are applied

in case of sw the benefit even persist if the debuff wears out, (50% crit at lotheb e.g.)

[Deleted]

Your math is wrong too, because you assume that right now our pseudo-crit dots are getting the benefits of +crit debuffs, +% damage debuffs, which they do not.

The dot damage itself does get +% damage modifiers, but the pseudo-crit-damage from shadowform does not, neither are +crit debuffs there.

So if the dot really crits, that crit takes +% damage modifiers into account, and also it should benefit from +crit debuffs.

That's why it's not as easy to say if this is a nerf or a buff.

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but if you mean crit debuffs like improved scorch, they do increase dot damage in 3.0.8. It is your crit chance on target that is used in the calculation. Dots tick more if they are cast with improved scorch on target, and that's a fact.

[AetherMcLoud]

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but if you mean crit debuffs like improved scorch, they do increase dot damage in 3.0.8. It is your crit chance on target that is used in the calculation. Dots tick more if they are cast with improved scorch on target, and that's a fact.

I must admin I didn't know our dots took imp. scorch into account (because we usually don't have a fire mage), as they do not take the 25% crit from inner focus into account either.

But what I tried to say is:

Old = Modifiers * (Base + SP*(Base_Coefficient+(Crit_Chance / No_Of_Ticks)))
New = (Crit_Chance *.5 + Meta_Gem) * (Modifiers * (Base + SP*Base_Coefficient))

Math says more than a hundred words :P

Right now you have the crit chance added onto the base coefficient, at 3.1, if they behave like regular crits (which assuming from the wording they will), it will be multiplied instead of simply added, therefore taking into account % modifiers, and stuff like that.

If you have 30% crit right now, you get 30% more BASE dot damage (which while including your spellpower, doesn't include stuff like darkness, shadow weaving, malygos sparks, thaddius charges, etc.)

If you have 30% crit in 3.1, you get a 30% chance to do 50% (or 100% if they change shadow power accordingly) more damage - and that 50/100% extra damage DOES take into account stuff like malygos sparks, shadow weaving, darkness, etc.

Because the dot already benefits from such modifiers, but the pseudo-crit from shadowform does not.

Hope now it's clear what my message was supposed to mean

[Deleted]

I must admin I didn't know our dots took imp. scorch into account (because we usually don't have a fire mage), as they do not take the 25% crit from inner focus into account either.

Inner Focus does not affect dots, because dots are currently not able crit in the classical sense as the talent requires.

But what I tried to say is:

Old = Modifiers * (Base + SP*(Base_Coefficient+(Crit_Chance / No_Of_Ticks)))
New = (Crit_Chance *.5 + Meta_Gem) * (Modifiers * (Base + SP*Base_Coefficient))

Math says more than a hundred words :P

Right now you have the crit chance added onto the base coefficient, at 3.1, if they behave like regular crits (which assuming from the wording they will), it will be multiplied instead of simply added, therefore taking into account % modifiers, and stuff like that.

If you have 30% crit right now, you get 30% more BASE dot damage (which while including your spellpower, doesn't include stuff like darkness, shadow weaving, malygos sparks, thaddius charges, etc.)

If you have 30% crit in 3.1, you get a 30% chance to do 50% (or 100% if they change shadow power accordingly) more damage - and that 50/100% extra damage DOES take into account stuff like malygos sparks, shadow weaving, darkness, etc.

Because the dot already benefits from such modifiers, but the pseudo-crit from shadowform does not.

Hope now it's clear what my message was supposed to mean

I don't know where the formulas are from, but they look very strange and are in conflict with the shadowform tooltip. I woudn't believe them blindly.
My VT ticks 1171 out of shadowform and exactly 1171*1.15*1.2035=1621 in shadowform on live server, as you would expect with +15% from shadowform and 20.35% crit, when reading the tooltip.
As for 3.1 formulas, we will have to see and wait.

[Kalakukko]

Most math put into calculating the Sform changes effects come to the conclusion that it is indeed a nerf.

If it is correct. /facepalm at Blizzard...

[Nezoia]

As some of you might noticed the shadowpriest were severe lacking behind in damage up to now, when you fight against a perfect group on a perhaps short fight.

So the buffs are very welcome, and I think the change to DoTs critting is made to help us scale upwards with the upcomming gear.

I don't understand the changes to mana regeneration, but we'll see when it's been tested.

[AetherMcLoud]

Most math put into calculating the Sform changes effects come to the conclusion that it is indeed a nerf.

If it is correct. /facepalm at Blizzard...

Indeed. Just read some shadowpriest.com stuff and it seems to be a 15% nerf for our dot damage. WTF, we are already losing out to mages, warriors, dks, hunters, warlocks on DPS with their immense scaling with gear.

If they add dots to shadow power, then it would probably even out but still, why change it in the first place?

[Deleted]

As some of you might noticed the shadowpriest were severe lacking behind in damage up to now, when you fight against a perfect group on a perhaps short fight.

So the buffs are very welcome, and I think the change to DoTs critting is made to help us scale upwards with the upcomming gear.

I don't understand the changes to mana regeneration, but we'll see when it's been tested.

But dots "crit" now with good scaling, and with the information available, they are going to crit worse in 3.1.0

[Nezoia]

But dots "crit" now with good scaling, and with the information available, they are going to crit worse in 3.1.0

We'll see, we'll see.

It's obviously meant to do more damage than we do now, so I wouldn't be to worried. The best we can do is to do actual raiding tests that proves our lower damage.

Blizzard hardly cares about Theroycraft/Math/Simcraft data, they want REAL data.