Enh testing

[maygor]

I did some dps test on the ptr today. 15 minutes each. I tried the following combinations.

WF/WF, lightning shield, SOE, WF totem, Mana, searing
WF/WF, lightning shield, SOE, WF totem, Mana, magma
WF/FT, lightning shield, SOE, WF totem, Mana, searing
WF/FT, lightning shield, SOE, WF totem, Mana, magma
WF/WF, lightning shield, SOE, WF totem, Mana, FT totem
WF/FT, lightning shield, SOE, WF totem, Mana, FT totem

I used this build. http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...0&version=9626

Rotation was SS, ES, LL, wait for SS. repeat. I was throwing lightning bolts when 5 stacks were up and refreshing totems at 1 sec left. I didn't use wolves or heroism in the results I will give. They gave a flat increase no matter the combination.

Here is my armory for my shaman who hit 80 3 weeks ago. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...enas&n=Solonia

Results:
WF/FT 2592 dps with both fire totems on the heroic dummy. Magma was ahead almost 200 dps on the lvl 80 dummies since both were hit with the totem.

The other combinations ranged from 2200-2350 dps so not really worth discussing.

This is essentially identical to my results on live when you adjust for the better latency on live.

Buffed in naxx 10 I was pully 3700 dps on patch so I would actually expect to see a slight increase with the talent changes. 1 point in the new imp SS significantly increased uptime. I always had enough mana to make it to the next SR even with dropping magma.

Apparently they are changing the bonus to UR to be expertise instead of agi. If it is a decent amount then I would expect to see a fairly significant increase in dps.

[Embermoon]

So what conclusions did you arrive at, from your tests?

[Submarauder]

you have way too much hit.

341 is cap, rest should go into expertise

[maygor]

the changes aren't anything spectacular but if they do put expertise on UR it will allow for a lot more gearing options which will be nice. I don't feel the 2sec cooldown loss on SS is a nerf. Mana management was nothing short of spectacular in that I could easily make it from SR to SR without running out of mana while still dropping magma totems every time they had run out.

So I guess the conclusion is that mana will be a non-issue in a raid with wisdom judged and replenishment. The rest will be a small increase due to opening up gearing options. I didn't like having to gear for spell hit cap and melee expertise with so little mail gear available with expertise. That should get a whole lot easier. I feel good about where enh is at on the ptr.

[Embermoon]

341 is only the spell cap, and then, only assuming he has a spriest or boomkin.

If not, then his hit isn't hurting a thing, if he winds up in a group w/o those classes, or if one/both die during the boss fight.

And, he's already at 26 expertise. Why are you suggesting he get more?

[maygor]

you have way too much hit.

341 is cap, rest should go into expertise

This is not my main so I only get to run in naxx 10 currently. Our group does not have a spell hit buff. I am at 16% spell hit currently.

edit 17% with my presence.

[tears]

"changes arent anything spectacular" ?? wtf happened to the ~50% nerf of FT in OH? atleast im still having 50 to 60% cut down damage in FT with exact same gear in live or in ptr

[maygor]

"changes arent anything spectacular" ?? wtf happened to the ~50% nerf of FT in OH? atleast im still having 50 to 60% cut down damage in FT with exact same gear in live or in ptr

I am seeing the same dps output as live and WF/WF with 2 slow weapons does 200+ dps LESS than WF/FT on those same weapons.

PS... where the hell are you thinking you are getting a 50% decrease to FT? The tooltip is exactly the same as on live.

If it's bugged then the changes are freaking awesome....

[tears]

im not thinking im getting a 50% decrease, ive tested it now for hours with same gear in live and in ptr and @ PTR its -50% FT damage roughly. if youre not been there testing this out, you shouldnt go that offensive. and currently on PTR wf/wf is better dps than wf/ft with the same gear that i have atm (pretty much BIS)

[maygor]

im not thinking im getting a 50% decrease, ive tested it now for hours with same gear in live and in ptr and @ PTR its -50% FT damage roughly. if youre not been there testing this out, you shouldnt go that offensive. and currently on PTR wf/wf is better dps than wf/ft with the same gear that i have atm (pretty much BIS)

What OH are you using? With Pride WF/WF definitely falls behind to the extent that I don't see how it could catch up with currently available gear unless you have ignored spell hit cap and maybe even expertise in favor of AP.

[tears]

i got BIS or atleast really close, CG mh and AD oh, im over hitcap (which has nothing to do with the FT imbue damage anyway) and 27 expertise rating for testing purposes on PTR.

why is it hard for people to understand that compared to live servers and current PTR patch, FT imbue damage has reduced roughly 50%? and by roughly i mean roughly since it might vary depending on your gear ofc

[Shaamwow]

Should probably post a comparison of live dmg/PTR damag on the PTR forums.

If FT has been reduced by 50% on a SLOW offhand the devs must have ( I hope ) fucked something up while normalizing FT damage. If not, this is a stealth nerf of immense proportions.

They said they wanted to fix fast OH being the best choice for FT, not nerf FT into the ground.

[maygor]

im not thinking im getting a 50% decrease, ive tested it now for hours with same gear in live and in ptr and @ PTR its -50% FT damage roughly. if youre not been there testing this out, you shouldnt go that offensive. and currently on PTR wf/wf is better dps than wf/ft with the same gear that i have atm (pretty much BIS)

Ok so I'm not saying that I don't believe you but... well... I don't believe you. What dummy were you using? What was your rotation? Yes I see less FT damage on ptr though the tooltip has not changed. That said, the only way that I could get WF/WF ahead of WF/FT was to go with a lvl 80 or below dummy. The boss level dummy put FT ahead by 100 dps without using a magma totem at all... That means it will be even further ahead due to the increased spell power. I tested to 2 million damage and the lvl 80 dummy and boss dummy with both combinations and simply could not reproduce your claims on the boss dummy.

That said... If the dummy is not a ?? then it's invalid. Lets think about this... With WF/WF you are robbing your MH of procs meaning ever few procs at least are only half what they could be. With WF/FT you are gauranteeing ever WF proc to be the big one. With haste buffs and such WF is going to proc nearly immediately every time it is cooled down. Since both hands share the cooldown you get the max from WF. By having FT on the OH you get extra damage on every swing of your OH plus you pump all your spells along with your fire totem. I absolutely can not see it being possible with current gear to get WF/WF ahead of WF/FT with 2 slow weapons.

[tears]

was and still testing ofc with ?? dummy. whats the hard part to believe it? hits in live for 380-400ish and on PTR with EXACT same gear for 170-200 and you say its not nerfed for any reason? ok maybe im the dumb guy for real

[maygor]

was and still testing ofc with ?? dummy. whats the hard part to believe it? hits in live for 380-400ish and on PTR with EXACT same gear for 170-200 and you say its not nerfed for any reason? ok maybe im the dumb guy for real

Just because it is hitting for less doesn't mean it is automatically worse than WF/WF...

Recount says WF/FT is still best.