Moonkin Issues Up and Till 3.1 Explained. ( PvE & PvP )

[sensess]

Now i will list into detail Moonkin PVE / PVP Issues, Talent Issues And Much More.

Starfall ~ No longer breaks stealth
Starfall ~ No longer can be used while mounted / animal forms
Celestial Focus ~ No longer applies to starfall
Celestial Focus ~ Soon to no longer apply to Starfire
Owlkin Frenzy ~ Now only procs when Physical damage is recieved ( Major nerf )
Earth and Moon ~ Reduced to 3 talents, Reduced from 1/2/3/4/5% damage increase to 1/2/3%
Starfall ~ No longer procs 2% mana regen on a crit ( Was 1/2 Decent for a 3 min cooldown )
Hurricane ~ No longer procs 2% Mana regen on a crit ( Nerf was definately needed )
Lunar Guidance - Changed to 4/8/12% (down from 8/16/24%)
Glyph of Starfire ~ Your Starfire increases the duration of your Moonfire DoT on the target by 3 sec, up to a max of 9 additional seconds. ( Was Unlimited )
Moonkin Form ~ Armor reduced from 400% to 370%
Abolish Poison ~ Now ticks every 3 sec, up from every 2. Now lasts 12 sec., up from 8.
Starfall ~ This spell is Supressed by and effects that cause loss of control of your character
Innervate ~ Spirit Co-Efficient has been nerfed Reducing the effectiveness of this by approximately 60% of a normal mana bar.
Faerie Fire ~ now decreases armor by 5%. (Previously decreased armor by a set amount) Nerfed unless Targets have over 25500 Armor,

Just a small amount of nerfs we have had, Now buffs you ask ?

Eclipse ~ Damage done by wrath up by 10% / Starfall Crit up by 15%
Abolish Poison ~ Now castable in moonkin form
Moonkin Form ~ Critical Spells now have a CHANCE to refund 2% of your base mana
Moonfire ~ New Animation
Improved Mark of the Wild ~ Now also increases all of your total attributes by 1/2%.
Predatory Strikes ~ Now includes Moonkin Form in its effect.
Survival Instincts ~ Now includes Moonkin Form in its effect.

And now we see Restoration druids getting one of the most usefull spells there could be as what, a Tier 10 Restoration talent.

Starfire our Main Nuke has the HIGHEST % Mitigated ( Partial Resist ) damage in the game, As i'm sure you've noticed.

Survival Instincts / Predatory Strikes is useless and currently the tooltip in game states it does NOT work in moonkin.
So i cannot confirm or could be bothered even trying such a horrible spec to confirm this as of 3.1

PvP Gear issues, You talent us towards spirit bonuses, yet still with all the awesome amounts of spirit we have on pvp gear ( This number Declines rather quickly after 100 ? Base spirit ? )

There is a Seemingly extremely low amount of Intellect aswell, which we also benefit highly from, hence a full s5 geared moonkin has about 14k mana, and therefore will be oom before you can say Peek-a-boo. That combined with the Co-Efficient nerf of innervate, we recieve about 4k mana in return from 1 innervate (This is including the glyph of innervate)

If Moonkin's spec 11 points into feral, As live on the PTR we have 120mp5 while not casting, 14 mp5 while casting. Innervate is a whopping 480mp5 for 20 seconds, which in total means over that entire period of time ( Assuming it is not dispelled Which needs to be fixed, this needs to be non-dispellable for high tier balance druids ) we will be able to cast 1 typhoon.

With Owlkin Frenzy, BEFORE NERF. I was hoping this would be buffed that whilst you were enraged, all stun / silence / fear effects are reduced by 10/20/30%

Try 1v1'ing a Warlock, or mage withouth having Owlkin Frenzy ever proc.

On Topic of Pets, ( That apply to talents only ) Shaman Wolves Literally Floor druid treants, in damage / HP / Duration / Abilities / Movement Speed.

Also with starfall, and the post below Shadowpriests were IMMEDIATELY COMPENSATED for losing blackout, with a huge buff, in PVE / PVP

Considerably there are only 0.12% Players that are Moonkin that are over 2000 Arena Rating in 2v2
Considerably there are only 0.03% Players that are Moonkin that are over 2200 Arena Rating in 2v2

To Summarize, Balance druids are extremely underpowered with very low survivability lacking in the ability to do damage whilst having any source of incoming damage that does not even have to be Crowd Control orientated.

5 yards on typhoon is completely useless, 10 yards minimum would be decent,

My personal Opinion of this talent is, the closer the target is to you the further the knockback will be up to a maximum of 25 yards. let's say the target is 30 yards away when he is hit ( Max range is 36 Yards) This then will only knock the target back the minimum of 5-6 yards.

Redo hurricane so the hurricane is instantly cast where it was placed, silencing all people underneath it and if recast would remove the old hurricane to the new spot (Duration lasts 10seconds before haste modifications)

And for the love of god please fix the scaling issues with Natures Grace, If my normal cast time is 2.49 on starfire and i gain a crit, my cast time is not reduced to 1.99 it ends up at 2.08 This talent states the following: Reducing the Cast time of your next spell by 0.5 Seconds. Statistics of Wrath normal cast / After Nature's Grace Proc are shown Below.

Natures Grace also does not work with spells like Hurricane / Tranquility / Warstomp ( If Tauren ) Would be nice to have it work with warstomp for PvP Survivability.

Also in regards to the above with starfire, Our only other main spell for pve is Wrath, Which of course, has the same issues, and already does conflict with the global cooldown.

Examples of Problems:

1.25 sec cast ~~~ Wrath Crit
( No issues with GCD )
0.83 sec cast ~~~ Wrath Hit or crit ( Let's say Crit )
( GCD Is affected by Natures Grace after the first crit cliiping by about 0.2 - 0.3 seconds )
0.83 Sec cast ~~~ Wrath Crit
( No issues with GCD )
0.83 Sec cast ~~~ Wrath Crit
( No issues with GCD )

I have not tested this problem with Instant casts such as Moonfire Spam, With that same Forumula.
I would assume the same problem lies therein.

The issue here is the first Natures Grace proc has 0 effect on the global cooldown for the following spell, the crits after a crit will work as intended reducing the global cooldown slightly. I believe this is the same with starfire, although that is impossible to achieve cast times with that unless you have your 4 piece pvp set bonus proc, and gemmed for haste etc.

In regards to eclipse, we shouldn't have to base our DPS of such crazy RNG. as you know druids will try to proc an eclipse with Wrath, This spell has a flight time to hit the target, Yes we can know if we crit from this but we won't know if we will proc eclipse TILL the spell hits.

Basically the way you have set this up is 1. Cast wrath 2. if it's a crit, wait for the spell to land and do damage to proc eclipse if not, repeat step 1 & 2 untill you do proc eclipse, Step 3. Have your starfall begin casting asap when eclipse procs and then watch as once your FIRST starfire lands you only have about 11 seconds of eclipse left. Oh Crap ! we are doing heigan you just got your first eclipse time to start dancing.

Dance is now over, Repeat steps 1 & 2 until step 3 is applicable to you, and best of luck using that 11 Seconds of UPTIME to get a semi decent RNG factor in your favour.

Also with Faerie Fire / Improved Faerie Fire, This talent is yes, Completely useless for us, as we only take it now if there is a feral druid in the raid so we gain the PERSONAL BENEFIT from it, shadowpriests constantly have the 3% hit buff up, you need to rethink that talent completely, like if a warlock had +3% hit on curse of elements it would be worth them casting etc.

At it's current form, there should not be such an ability as Improved Faerie Fire, Please this has to be removed completely as a talent, and reinstated with something completely different.

As that being said, this is not the ONLY talent that needs to be removed and reinstated with something new i can personally name atleast 7 Talents that are SUB PAR to all other classes, in terms of beneficiaries provided.

It's almost in your best interest to remove all arcane / nature damaging spells, and all the balance tree together and RE-DESIGNING the entire Balance ( Moonkin ) forms / spells / talents. because with every change you are working with a pair of scissors to do your lawns, while all the other classes have Ride-On.

Basically what i'm saying is, there is only so much you can achieve by changing the way the pair of scissors work, but no matter what you do you'll always be sub-par to a Ride-On. Hence Throw away the scissors ( Balance tree / moonkin form ) And Return to us with a Ride-On so we can once again compete, and fine tuning will have a Real Effect on our class / spec the way it's played and it's capabilities.

I hope you can look into all these issues, and make some relevant changes to reflect these problems.

I could carry on all day long, I'm really disappointed that this Class, Spec, has fallen to these standards I've played moonkin since the days of AQ40, and right now i will be quitting before 3.1 goes live.

Best of all to the other moonkins out there and hopefully there will be some light at the end of the tunnel for the few of you that will stick around.

~~~~ Snowae ~~~~

Guild leader of Dispøsed

Dreadmaul

Link to my post on the Damage Dealing Forums,

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...163246&sid=1#1

[Porosity22]

Agree with alot of the things in this post. Even though I doubt they will completely rework the balance tree, I'd like for them to do something new with eclipse. It's annoying proccing an SF-eclipse and then only getting 11-13 seconds of use out of it. One other thing that irritates me is having to use a global for IFF, when shadow priests have it clipped to their spells, why can't we have the same?

[Legendcc]

The only problem with Moonkins is that once we hit a certain point, The only thing that increases the dps significantly is Spell Damage.
Give me a Heroism? Yep. I max out and cant get any higher. (under 5k)
Give me 100% crit on Loatheb? Yep, Maxed out again. (prob around 5k)
But do that to a Mage or any other class.

(These figures are off the top of my head)

[dangerball]

Totally agree on the pvp issues. Pve i dont have much expertise, so i cant comment. I would say that i really don't mind the RNG aspect of the class. It's always required a certain amount of skill and management to hang around and control a fight until all your proccs lined up for your small window of big burst. My problems pvping now seem to be mana issues, which you discussed and the fact that i cant seem to get any melee classes off me. I've gemmed my pvp gear pure INT to try to compensate but what i really need is about 300-400 spirit.
I've always felt typhoon was a missed opportunity. I would take like a 50% dps cut on typhoon to increase the knockback or add some other effect. Hurricane as aoe cc might be a little much but interesting idea. In any case i'm glad someone feels my pain on moonkin pvp. I'm glad they got pve buffs but i feel like the pvp aspect of the class has been overlooked completely.

[Excelious]

bump.

i enjoyed having 5/5 valorous and thus being able to come somewhere in the top 10 dps of a good 25 man raid. with ulduar being completely movement based (byebye wrath/starfire/eclipse) and druids only having 2 underpowered dots, something needs to be changed for us to sustain dmg rather than being completely burst damage/cast time orientated.

that coupled with no mana regen (huge spirit nerf) = uninstall wow kthxbye lol

[Kulltiras]

The only problem with Moonkins is that once we hit a certain point, The only thing that increases the dps significantly is Spell Damage.
Give me a Heroism? Yep. I max out and cant get any higher. (under 5k)
Give me 100% crit on Loatheb? Yep, Maxed out again. (prob around 5k)
But do that to a Mage or any other class.

(These figures are off the top of my head)

do you play a moonkin?

spell damage is not the only thing that benefits us. Haste is just as good for us as any other DPS caster, if not better. Once we reach a certain point of spell damage (unrealistically high with current gear, but someday obtainable) , 1 haste will actually be more of a DPS increase then 1 spell damage. While crit is the least valued DPS stat, the more you have, the faster you will get your eclipse procs up.

And whats this about maxing out under 5k? While heroism is up on Patchwerk, im spiking at 8k DPS, and getting 5700 for the overall fight. And other moonkins have gotten lucky and hit mid 6000's.

and with the uber loatheb buff, the only people who beat me on that fight are the mages, who are doing 9k DPS, and im at 8k.

While i dont care about pvp, and dont consider Owlkin frenzy nerf to be "HUGE", the one thing i do agree with the OP about is making eclipse a more dependable source of DPS.

the affect should be changed to something like;

"60% chance on wrath crit to give the caster the Lunar Eclipse affect, making the next 8 starfires cast automatically crit. Affect lasts for 30 seconds (also the cooldown for eclipse)."

This removes the chance of having extremely poor luck and getting 0-2 crits during an eclipse proc, depsite having an 80% crit chance. It also fixes the problem of movement completely destroying our DPS, so that you can move, and THEn take advantage of eclipse,. instead of it running out in 15 seconds.

[khornate68]

The only problem with Moonkins is that once we hit a certain point, The only thing that increases the dps significantly is Spell Damage.
Give me a Heroism? Yep. I max out and cant get any higher. (under 5k)
Give me 100% crit on Loatheb? Yep, Maxed out again. (prob around 5k)
But do that to a Mage or any other class.

(These figures are off the top of my head)

if you cant do more than 5k dps as a moonkin you should reroll

on patchwerk i pull around 6k easily

[Snowae]

OP Here, For some reason i can’t post off the home computer, but anyways i don’t care what your DPS during patchwork is i don’t care what your test dummy damage is.

The fact is there is going to be little to none of the fights involving just chilling in the 1 exact spot for the entire fight,

Now tell me your DPS While your dancing on heigan ? It’s going to be something quite similar in 3.1 Ulduar if you rely on purely eclipse procs as is.

[Kulltiras]

OP Here, For some reason i can’t post off the home computer, but anyways i don’t care what your DPS during patchwork is i don’t care what your test dummy damage is.

The fact is there is going to be little to none of the fights involving just chilling in the 1 exact spot for the entire fight,

Now tell me your DPS While your dancing on heigan ? It’s going to be something quite similar in 3.1 Ulduar if you rely on purely eclipse procs as is.

you know everyones DPS sucks on heigan, right? Melee get turbo-boned, having to dance the whole time, at least ranged can straight nuke half the time. Only hunters even do remotely good, since they can use all their insta-shots while dancing. I still average top 5 on that fight, since I get to DPS normally for half the fight, and then keep my 2 DoTs up while dancing.

If every fight in ulduar is like heigan, then every class will suffer equally.

[Snowae]

Wow your a fucking moron, Play a fucking balance druid and then comment you idiot.

WE RELY ON A PROC THAT IS A CHANCE ON A CRIT so we need to A. RNG Crit B. RNG Proc. to sustain good dps

Good luck using that 11-13 seconds worth of proc after a WRATH HITS THE TARGET AND A. RNG Crit B. RNG Proc

So yeh go troll the I-R-Retard forums www.hellokittyislandadventures.com/forums

And let the good players post in peace.

[Shadecast]

you know everyones DPS sucks on heigan, right? Melee get turbo-boned, having to dance the whole time, at least ranged can straight nuke half the time. Only hunters even do remotely good, since they can use all their insta-shots while dancing. I still average top 5 on that fight, since I get to DPS normally for half the fight, and then keep my 2 DoTs up while dancing.

If every fight in ulduar is like heigan, then every class will suffer equally.

Are you kidding?

Our DK's still do VERY well on Heigan (over 4k dps), and I normally top Heigan as an spriest at 4.5k dps (until our affliction lock gets her act together and catches up to me)

Hunters are up there, but certainly not 'top dps' on Heigan.

[koistyle]

I dont know why people are QQ'in about moonkin dps on movement based fights. Just learn the different techniques on how to dps as a boomkin on movement based fights. Good druids are still able to pull 4.5-5.5k dps on a heigan fight. Little tip, before the dance, go for a wrath eclipse instead of a starfire so you can cast wrath 2-3 times on the 2 end points, and once every stop on the dance. If you rely entirely on your starfire crit and panic when  you get a different eclipse then you need to read or just reroll to another class.

Instead of blaming devs on "omg they nerfed me" and QQ'in the whole time, try and read/adapt/make your own strats to fights so that you know when you can blow cooldowns and when you can insert some quick damage spells on any fight. I'm guessing you don't even know how to double pot on a fight. Yes, you can double pot, the google machine is your friend.

Any class can top the charts, as long as they know their class and know the fight. Don't limit yourself to "im not passing 5k because i dont have a elem shammy" "wrong timing on heroism" "bad rng crit" excuses. Simple players make excuses and just stick to that excuse on why they have low dps.
Better players fix these problems and invent new ways on how to pass these hurdles.

/end rant

[Snowae]

I dont know why people are QQ'in about moonkin dps on movement based fights. Just learn the different techniques on how to dps as a boomkin on movement based fights. Good druids are still able to pull 4.5-5.5k dps on a heigan fight. Little tip, before the dance, go for a wrath eclipse instead of a starfire so you can cast wrath 2-3 times on the 2 end points, and once every stop on the dance. If you rely entirely on your starfire crit and panic when you get a different eclipse then you need to read or just reroll to another class.

Instead of blaming devs on "omg they nerfed me" and QQ'in the whole time, try and read/adapt/make your own strats to fights so that you know when you can blow cooldowns and when you can insert some quick damage spells on any fight. I'm guessing you don't even know how to double pot on a fight. Yes, you can double pot, the google machine is your friend.

Any class can top the charts, as long as they know their class and know the fight. Don't limit yourself to "im not passing 5k because i dont have a elem shammy" "wrong timing on heroism" "bad rng crit" excuses. Simple players make excuses and just stick to that excuse on why they have low dps.
Better players fix these problems and invent new ways on how to pass these hurdles.

/end rant

Slightly more on topic post, but your still an idiot

Welcome to the issues with nature grace procs learn your fucking class before you post.

[Kulltiras]

Wow your a fucking moron, Play a fucking balance druid and then comment you idiot.

you should click on that link in my sig, mr angry pants

[Snowae]

you should click on that link in my sig, mr angry pants

Learn to play your class / spec.

[Kulltiras]

Learn to play your class / spec.

im sorry, but what exactly am i doing wrong?

the only point i have made in this thread is that 1.) RNG should play less of a factor in our DPS, and 2.) We should not be comparing ourselves to others on heigan.

[Snowae]

i'm giving an example if you re-read it.

Basing that without having the ability to stand still when we want to like on patchwerk Eclipse becomes our worst talent.

[koistyle]

You can reduce your GCD to 1sec. So even with that much haste, i know a wrath will clip with a 0.6-0.8 sec cast. But DURING THE DANCE not while your standing still, it is much better to cast wrath because you get more out of it on the 2-3 second window that you will be able to throw spells while youre running around.

Besides, the point i was trying to make is EVEN IF THE FIGHT REQUIRES MOVEMENT, a good Boomkin will know when he can cast/blow cooldowns to maximize his dps.

Are you having menopause or something? because you really need anger management.

[Kulltiras]

Sorry retard if you have that much haste, then you will get fucked over by the GCD which nature's grace is not properly effecting.

Seriously put on your bug eyed glasses and re-read the posts.

your just making yourself look dumb.

he said a starfire cast of 1.5-1.8 AFTER a NG proc. However much haste gives that kind of cast time, is obviously not too much, since it is not short enough to clip the GCD.

for whatever reason you feel to be straight up mean to people, at least try to do so, while making a valid point.

[Snowae]

<flaming post removed>

Lighten up poster and stop flaming or face a ban.