Moonkin Issues Up and Till 3.1 Explained. ( PvE & PvP )

[koistyle]

Besides, the point i was trying to make is EVEN IF THE FIGHT REQUIRES MOVEMENT, a good Boomkin will know when he can cast/blow cooldowns to maximize his dps.

the point i was trying to make is EVEN IF THE FIGHT REQUIRES MOVEMENT.

a good Boomkin will know when he can cast/blow cooldowns to maximize his dps.


Let's see your posts, "GAWD MY DPS IS LOW I HAVE TO MOVE I WONT GET MY ECLIPSE PEWPEW"

[Snowae]

Besides, the point i was trying to make is EVEN IF THE FIGHT REQUIRES MOVEMENT, a good Boomkin will know when he can cast/blow cooldowns to maximize his dps.

the point i was trying to make is EVEN IF THE FIGHT REQUIRES MOVEMENT.

a good Boomkin will know when he can cast/blow cooldowns to maximize his dps.


Let's see your posts, "GAWD MY DPS IS LOW I HAVE TO MOVE I WONT GET MY ECLIPSE PEWPEW"

Actually, on any encounter either 10 man / 25 man i would floor you in DPS, because obviously as i have previously said...

You don't know your own class mechanics, please spend some time in researching information before you post.

[Kulltiras]

Actually, on any encounter either 10 man / 25 man i would floor you in DPS, because obviously as i have previously said...

You don't know your own class mechanics, please spend some time in researching information before you post.

wtb your armory, because i refuse to believe that other people are willing to raid with someone as immature, rude, and ignorant as you.

[Snowae]

wtb your armory, because i refuse to believe that other people are willing to raid with someone as immature, rude, and ignorant as you.

lol wow, Do you really need to be handfed my armory link ?

That's amazingly sad.... Here's a hint if you did what i said in the first place and read my post before speaking....


~~~~ Snowae ~~~~

Guild leader of Dispøsed

Dreadmaul

Now i will have to presume that you have not the intelligence nor common sense to be able to use the armory search engine that blizzard have implemented so here is a DIRECT LINK http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...dmaul&n=Snowae

If you click on the coloured letters it will then take you to my armory link, at this page you will be able to view as much information about my druid as possible.

Also, Do me a favour and never post again.


<Moderator edit : NO Snowae you moderate your tone or it will be YOU that never posts here again>

[Madus]

Hodir will be nice /facepalm fight for moonkins...

[Ntrails]

Also with starfall, and the post below Shadowpriests were IMMEDIATELY COMPENSATED for losing blackout, with a huge buff, in PVE / PVP

Considerably there are only 0.12% Players that are Moonkin that are over 2000 Arena Rating in 2v2
Considerably there are only 0.03% Players that are Moonkin that are over 2200 Arena Rating in 2v2

Don't mar a half decently written post with petty SP envy. Seeing as SP in arena has been a non starter for just as long as moonkin - who at least had a couple of strong seasons as restokin - let them have their buff and see where it goes. Note that SP payed 5 talent points for a stun and nothing else - so there was no way they could have removed it WITHOUT putting a new talent in/compensating.

The gist is that Moonkin is heavily RNG (ofc) and that it sucks on moving battles... Well so do a fair few other casters. But meh - I look forward to seeing what blizz do.

I am curious about how you see whether wrath is a crit before it hits the target (a poster above)

[Kulltiras]

I am curious about how you see whether wrath is a crit before it hits the target (a poster above)

a scrolling combat text will register a <nature's grace> "aura" while the wrath is still in the air, if it is going to crit. thats the fastest way you can know

[Jaysee]

Don't mar a half decently written post with petty SP envy. Seeing as SP in arena has been a non starter for just as long as moonkin - who at least had a couple of strong seasons as restokin - let them have their buff and see where it goes. Note that SP payed 5 talent points for a stun and nothing else - so there was no way they could have removed it WITHOUT putting a new talent in/compensating.

The gist is that Moonkin is heavily RNG (ofc) and that it sucks on moving battles... Well so do a fair few other casters. But meh - I look forward to seeing what blizz do.

I am curious about how you see whether wrath is a crit before it hits the target (a poster above)

I recall Spriest / Warlock 2v2 combo's for longer than it seems you have played World Of Warcraft.
So comments from WotLK Freshman don't interest me.

Oh spriest paid out 5 talents for a stun ? Oh noes, THE STUN WAS REMOVED FROM THE GAME, that's another +5 talent points they can spend elsewhere.

And what their new talent is 3 points deep?

Oh what, we lost the Utility of our 51 Point Talent, We lost 3 Talent points worth of use from a talent, that's 4 right there. and guess what we STILL have to spec 3 of them for no additional benefit @ all,

Oh and Natures Grace, Seriously Don't post here if you are really that stupid.

When a Spell Critical Occurs, Natures Grace will proc BEFORE The spell reaches the target if it has travel time, EG: Wrath.

So once you have fired off your Wrath, You will know THE 0.0000000000000000001 second after you cast it if it is a crit or not, A. You gain a buff called Natures Grace which only occurs after a spell critical, B. You will notice you have between .25 - .4 seconds off your next cast time.

Oh and Moonkins VS Other casters in Moving "Battles"

Let's See, Shadowpriest Has A large range of DoT spells and they can also CRIT.

Let's See, Warlock Has a large range of DoT Spells Which can crit "Dual spec system for ulduar means Varying Affliction / Destro "

Let's See, Mages are not so lucky in this department, Having alot of their spells with cast times, But Dependant on Spec can still doin very competive DPS With minimal "Stand Still Time" And also they do not require certain procs and have to stand still for 15 seconds to do comparitive DPS.

Only one i cannot account for is Elemental Shamans, Who i would imagine will be having close, but not as intense issues as moonkins. Being they have far superior Mana Regeneration, and the chance to proc 2x spells from 1 cast. and talents that reduce their instant cast mana cost by 45%

Posted by Snowae.

[Tethrys]

:-\ standing still is good. moving is not for moonkin. On fights where we have to move around a lot, we'll be lacking dps; I can almost guarantee it.

[cynical]

Oh spriest paid out 5 talents for a stun ? Oh noes, THE STUN WAS REMOVED FROM THE GAME, that's another +5 talent points they can spend elsewhere.

And what their new talent is 3 points deep?

You clearly don't know anything about priests. We don't get to spend those talents elsewhere because they moved a mandatory talent to where our stun was.

Oh and Moonkins VS Other casters in Moving "Battles"

Let's See, Shadowpriest Has A large range of DoT spells and they can also CRIT.

Again, if you knew anything about priests you would know that right now we are looking at a dps loss due to our dots being able to crit*. Also we have 3 dots and our top 3 sources of single target dps generally come from mind flay (channeled spell), vampiric touch (dot with a cast time), and mind blast (DD casted spell). So not casting is a huge dps loss for us as well.
*unless they add bonus crit damage like they were hinting

Theres no reason to insult someone for asking a question about your class. Maybe you should try doing that to get a better understanding of other classes for once.

[shammoonkin]

To the poster..learn the fact before qq..by the way shaman wolves IS NOT stronger then treants..i know cuzz i have both class, matter of fact my level 70 druid treants hit stronger then my level 80 feral spirit (wolves) right now..how is 5 yrd push back useless for typhoon? i always have enough time to cast cyclone or root when i use that..l2p qq less pls

[Isashi]

I understand your frustration ... but your anger makes it kinda hard to read much past the original post.

I dont PvP at all, so will pass no comment for that aspect of your post.

Yes movement is bad for moonkins. Yes we are very very proc based for our best DPS. Also I dont feel we are scaling as well as the other DPS caster classes as we get better gear.

Personally I adapt, I try new things, I work with what I have (hence why my gear isn't as good as Snowae or Kulltiras http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...light&n=Isashi )

I play my druid for the fun of it, the random nature of the rotation. I played a Rogue through vanilla content and half of TBC, then switched to Moonkin when my guild hit gruuls. We have never been the top of the DPS charts until recently, and we have had many many major changes to boost us over the 8 or 9 patches I have been playing moonkin as my main.

Ulduar is going to bring forward many changes for us, I don't think blizz will bring in buffs/changes to make the higher mobility easier for us to handle before 3.1, and as always we (those who truly enjoy playing moonkins) will adapt and work with what has been given to us. Balancing a game the size of WoW does not mean Blizz will find a sweet spot for all classes and leave it there, it means keeping things in check as the game evolves. I have been playing since release and seen many changes, buffs and nerfs happen to everyone, but not all at the same time, every now and then a class will drop behind, and in the future when they can safely bring that class back up they will. All good things come to those who wait

[Gande]

...

Oh and Moonkins VS Other casters in Moving "Battles"

Let's See, Shadowpriest Has A large range of DoT spells and they can also CRIT.

Let's See, Warlock Has a large range of DoT Spells Which can crit "Dual spec system for ulduar means Varying Affliction / Destro "

Let's See, Mages are not so lucky in this department, Having alot of their spells with cast times, But Dependant on Spec can still doin very competive DPS With minimal "Stand Still Time" And also they do not require certain procs and have to stand still for 15 seconds to do comparitive DPS.

...

Posted by Snowae.

I believe a shadowy friend covered many of the shadow priest aspects i wish to argue about, but i mainly wanted to hit this point.

shadow priests have 3 dots...not a very large array of dots seeing as moonkins have 2, and if you read up on patch notes you would see that shadowform is giving all our dots the ability to crit instead of 1 as in the past.

i don't have a high level warlock but from what i remember a few of their dots had cast times, but among that...try keping about 7 dots up while running around trying to avoid stuff....yea.....not gonna end up so well.

as for mages, they do have instants. arcane has their fun barrage and their not-so-long arcane blast, similar to wrath. Fire has fire blast, which the other tres can also use to their advantage, and frost...well you dont see many frost mages in pve now do we : D.

all in all, dont be so hasty to bite your tongue...actually compare the classes good AND bad points to your bad points.

[Boringz]

Besides, the point i was trying to make is EVEN IF THE FIGHT REQUIRES MOVEMENT, a good Boomkin will know when he can cast/blow cooldowns to maximize his dps.

the point i was trying to make is EVEN IF THE FIGHT REQUIRES MOVEMENT.

a good Boomkin will know when he can cast/blow cooldowns to maximize his dps.


Let's see your posts, "GAWD MY DPS IS LOW I HAVE TO MOVE I WONT GET MY ECLIPSE PEWPEW"

then again, dont u agree uve seen ur eclipse which is ur highest form of dps proc on the most stupid moments ever? i wont complain about my dps at all coz im always ok,
but an example for stupid eclipse procs is,malygos: right before he throws u into the hurricane.
*as this is ur dps increasing talent its stupid to see it go missed out like that*
what i think they cry about atm is that their eclipse prolly got procced when they have to run which is a bit frustrating to see u can only do 1-2 cast in ur eclipse period as it increases ur dps.

[Huskyetha]

I am not a fan of the Eclipse RNG and would like to see some Blizz love concerning it - maybe we could get something along the lines like:

Avenging Wrath
8% of base mana
Instant cast 3 min cooldown
Increases all damage and healing caused by 20% for 20 sec. Cannot be used within 30 sec sec. of being the target of Divine Shield, Divine Protection, or Hand of Protection.

Of course this then allows Blizz to nerf/buff this option whenever they want

Wouldnt this would be better than an RNG option of course with similar restrictions like cannot be used within 30 seconds of **** etc

Of course many people reading this may say that this is too complicated but then 1 extra hotkey compared to praying to the server to give you that RNG Eclipse would be much nicer

[Deleted]

Bleh. Charges would make it easier to optimally use Eclipse of course but the dps rotation would start to be more boring again, i really do like the proc watching/reaction time thing :/

[kelash]

I think that the PVE is not our problem . As i see the better gear we get the better we are . We have so many talents that gives us bonuses from our items stats , lunar guidance ( increase spell power by 12% from intelect ) , dreamstate ( regenerate mana equal to 10% ) , improved moonkin form ( increased spell damage by 15% from spirit ) , new version of improved mark of the wild ( increase all atributes by 2% ) , Furor ( increase the amount of intelect by 10% ) , master shapeshifter ( increase the spell damage by 4% . As you see we have so many talents which depends on items that when we will get those new tiers , items from ulduar i think that our dps will grow in geomethrical way . Our biggest concern is the PVP . After the patch we will be the worse PVP spec class . I saw how they said that they are worried about moonkin in PVP and what ? nothing not even a single post about changes in moonkin spec for better ...

[anyaka21]

OP makes some solid points.

Especially if Ulduar is completely movement based, then you'll basically see melee being pretty much dominate the meters. Elemental shaman will much the same issues as they have pretty much the same flaws.

In regards the RNG factor of the class, I agree to a point. Basically moonkin dps isn't bad, however, there are a couple of things that I see which could help to improve.

1. I'd love to see a crit counter for Wrath while not on eclipse. What this means is that if you get 3 crits while not on eclipse or eclipse CD then you auto-proc eclipse. Thus it will take some of the sting out of it. I thin my record is going 2 rounds of IIS without a proc and about 8 crits during it. Still leave the 60% chance in there, thus you could proc it earlier, just would make sure we wouldn't go 30 seconds without a proc.

2. changing the GCD for Wrath as it inevitably ends up clipping constantly and as thus becomes nearly useless.
3. With the nature of the change to spirit, it would be nice to get the mana return back on all crits, AE included.


In regards to pvp.

1. I agree with the change to getting rid of RNG procs out of the game. Thus I have no issues with the change. Moonkins though do need some form of stun to to compensate.
2. However we do lack serious survivabilty and stats on pvp need to be improved.
3. I like the idea of a better knockback on Typhoon. The main issues with it are the cone nature of the spell and the small yards on the knockback.
4. Personally, I think Owlkin Frenzy needs to be completely rethought or completely removed. In it's current state it's pretty much a useless talent.

2.