[??] Do you think priests will get spirit scaling in 3.1?

[Knf]

Blizzard stated before, that they aim to make spirit a better stat for Disc priests, that we know. They also wanted to make it "more attractive" for mages, and they did.

If I where a mage, I would be very happy with a SCALING spirit ability. But they went all out on QQ, and gues what? The spirit scaling was not only buffed in a major way, but they got a free 3% crit as bonus!

Now I don't want to come off as a mage hater, I love mage water :P This is just an example.


Now to the point:

1. Holy: this spec scales well with spirit. The 25% spirit = spell power is nice.

2. Disc: does nothing with spirit. Zero. They nerfed the crit based mana regen, nerfed the spirit mana regen... So we have to stack lots of spirit for little regen and get... you know...

3. Shadow: has lots of spirit on set gear, it's the same thing as with mages. We get 10% spirit to spell power... this is not enough. 500 raid buffed spirit is 50 spell power, come on... We can glyph for more scaling (like mages with armor glyph), to get a random proc to get another 10% scaling. I see two things wrong with this: the random aspect, this is not a constant buff and goes away when we stop dps for a few seconds, then we have to wait for it to proc again. It's fun. It's a nice gimick. But it should be a bonus thing, not a "must have to get scaling glyph". The other problem is that when we get a better glyph (and we will not in 3.1), the scaling will be no more... Not to mention that we only have 2 dps glyphs ATM.


I was REALY hoping that Disc priests would get the change mages got. Spirit scaling with crit would be very nice for disc priests and would fit well with their mechanics. I don't have to tell you how vexed I was when I saw mages get that change. Also spirit scaling with HASTE would be nice, maybe a good idea for flash heal spamers that we are

As for Shadow I think that spell power is perfect. But I would like to see more base (talent) scaling with spirit. If indead PTR shadow priest DPS is to low (and it is reported to be 1-2k below others), then adding more scaling from spirit would be perfect. Maybe it would make Imp Spirit Tap a little more then a mana regen tool. (No it would not actualy, but still it would be a nice combo). I would be sad to see blizz try to scale priests in some other strange ways.


Do you think Blizz will change something with this? Or have they forgoten that priests DON'T LIKE spirit too? I have seen posts made by mages saying "leave spirit to priests, thats their thing!". Why the hell is it our thing? The Shadow spirit scaling is crap, our best in slot items don't have spirit. Well no, we like spirit to be honest, it's just not good for us, and we would like it more if it would like us back

[rikken]

To be honest disc doesnt need any regen from spirit and would be better off to use items points towards more thoroughput stats like haste/crit/spell power. Just because holy priests like spirit doesnt mean that disc should inherently like it also. Even though its not really something you need to make two sets over i guess.

On the other hand though i firmly believe you are right, disc will see another benefit from spirit, maybe a conversion to more haste or something, i.e. 25% of your total spirit turns into x amount of haste. Who knows.

[AetherMcLoud]

3. Shadow: has lots of spirit on set gear, it's the same thing as with mages. We get 10% spirit to spell power... this is not enough. 500 raid buffed spirit is 50 spell power, come on... We can glyph for more scaling (like mages with armor glyph), to get a random proc to get another 10% scaling. I see two things wrong with this: the random aspect, this is not a constant buff and goes away when we stop dps for a few seconds, then we have to wait for it to proc again. It's fun. It's a nice gimick. But it should be a bonus thing, not a "must have to get scaling glyph". The other problem is that when we get a better glyph (and we will not in 3.1), the scaling will be no more... Not to mention that we only have 2 dps glyphs ATM.

10% spirit as spellpower all the time through the talent.
10% spirit as spellpower after a crit for 10 seconds through the glyph.

So basically ~20% spirit as spellpower pretty much all the time.

Good scaling with spirit I'd say.

[Deleted]

dont forget improved spirittap, it does not directly affect spirit > spellpower but it increases the amount of spirit, thus increasing the spellpower gained through glyph of shadowform and twisted faith.

[Lostprophet]

Mages dont get 3% free Crit, those 3% Crit was replaced by the 25% Spirit to Crit (new 35%)

Shadow do have this buff constant, so as Aether wrote we do have a 20% Scaling, but WL have a 30% Scaling :<

Disc do have a better Multiplier for Spirit than Holys do(6% vs 5%) but no conversation into any other stat. I aggree with you that this should change. Atm Spirit is for Disc only a Manareg stat whichs make its less attractive. Disc may prefer a conversation into crit, coz Disc got enough haste trough talents and raidbuffs.

[Worshaka]

According to simcraft...

* 1 spellpower = 1 PP
* 1 intellect = 0.2 PP
* 1 spirit = 0.22 PP
* 1 spellcrit = 0.62 PP
* 1 spellhaste = 0.62 PP
* 1 spellhit = 1.16 PP (when not hitcapped)

So as it stands 1 spirit is better than 1 int... also to put spirit in perspective, 3 spirit is > 1 crit or haste rating.

How good is spirit supposed to be for dps? It's primary role is mana regen... just how much effect should it have on dps? I think the current effect on dps is more than generous... I can't say there is really a case the spirit needs a buff for spriests.

Lastly, looking at simcraft data, it seems for most of the mage specs, spirit had a 0 PP effect... kinda looks like spirit did need a buff for them, or at least for certain specs.

[Deleted]

Mages dont get 3% free Crit, those 3% Crit was replaced by the 25% Spirit to Crit (new 35%)

Actually they got 3% crit in improved scorch/winter's chill now, so I would say it was entirely replaced.

[Mandible]

To be honest disc doesnt need any regen from spirit and would be better off to use items points towards more thoroughput stats like haste/crit/spell power. Just because holy priests like spirit doesnt mean that disc should inherently like it also. Even though its not really something you need to make two sets over i guess.

On the other hand though i firmly believe you are right, disc will see another benefit from spirit, maybe a conversion to more haste or something, i.e. 25% of your total spirit turns into x amount of haste. Who knows.

Rapture is getting nerfed into the ground, so anything that is now won't be in the same manner in patch. Holy is getting some buffs in regards to getting more regen out of spirit with their talents, but discipline is still waiting for it.

[Vel]

For the current moment dis does not spirit at all. Rapture+Replenishment gives you enough mana back for non-stop spam. The only spirit you may have is from best is slot items that mostly has spirit ;D
So my gear consists of crit/hast stats mostly and gemed for crit/spd. If fight last long... there are some troubles : and there is no such fights now :P

But... Watching the changes to Rapture... It becomes clear that we'll have to sacrafice crit or haste on our gear for manaregen. Int is good but and we'll gem for it if needed but that will not be enough.
For the current perspective the is no point in spending dkp on spirit gear... spirit will not give enough manageren for the cost of it's item points.
As for me - i am getting crit/mp5s gear just to make sure i will not run oom on 5 min fight after ulduar comes up

And no way i will get spirit as manaregen stat until it will get at least some scaling with at least anything. Just because item value of spirit even with +6% bonus from talents is higher the mp5s item value from manaregen point of view.

[Zealic]

Actually they got 3% crit in improved scorch/winter's chill now, so I would say it was entirely replaced.

And if they're Arcane?

[Deleted]

And if they're Arcane?

they get shafted ;D

edit: although... they do have 15% additional spirit from spec

[Exera]

You do know why mages QQ right? It's a horrible "fix" to make a horrible stat almost useful , the only speccs that in the long run will scale good on it is 2 variations of the fire specc 18/53/0 or 0/53/18, this is probably THE worst change ever for frost mages, 3.1 will most likely be the death of the frost specc for good. And not until your third month farming Ulduar and have gathered all the good spirit gear will this change be of any good, and we will still be outscaled by the other casters that benefits more from spirit.

After the new changes to the glyph and armour it's slightly better so the QQ is less, but the first changes was a huge nerf to all mages, we actually LOST crit(yes the numbers has been done). And yeah the change will require you to be fully raid buffed for it to actually be good in the first place. As things stand now with the current gear you can get hold of the best mage gear has no spirit regardless of this change or not.

As I said it's a horrible "fix" that could have been done a lot better. That is why mages QQ about it, it's simply a horrible fix that will only benefit 2 variations of the fire specc.

[nikkita]

I would love to get a glyph or even a talent that my heals of my crit heals will allow me to gain 20% of my spirit as crit. This would be nice for holy and discipline (for shadow not so much though).

The spirit benifit to a holy priest is less then a warlocks, and now with mages geting crit from it (and alot with the glyph and the molten armor changes) i would like to see priests geting some more benifit from spirit. Holy, discipline and shadow. Though i find it true: from all specs discipline gains the least from spirit.

Any buff that will make spirit scale better for a priest would be more then welcome, and even maybe needed, or else - why are we buffing divine spirit? Maybe making DS granting 10% of spirit into spellpower can adjust this - but will now become op to the lock's armor and mages armor, maybe making DS not stack with these armors, but granting 10% of spirit into spellpower, which will allow mainly priests and druids to benifit from it mostly. Another option is to change the mages/warlocks armor (to not be based on spirit, meaning the spirit buff is only when they get the divine spirit - allowing this buff to be more important for 4 classes it actually buffs, and allowing DS to buff most of the raid) and just decide that spirit will benifit everyone with additional 10% of total spirit as spell power just by bringing any priest (holy, discipline and shadow) - this way spirit will be equally desired by mages, locks, shadow priests, boomkin's and discipline priests, and much more desired by holy priests and resto druids (just like it always used to be), divine spirit will also become a buff that doesn't only buff 4 classes (warlocks, mages, non-feral druids, priests) but will also buff slightly other classes - not spirit users. Discipline would benifit just as in tbc, with ids.

[Zeuq]

My biggest problem is that giving Mages and Warlocks substantial benefits from Spirit just doesn't make sense. From a lore perspective, why would either class be interested in a stat like that? I understand Blizzard's idea of gear consolidation, but that doesn't mean that Warlocks and Mages have to get enough out of Spirit that a Spirit piece is comparable (give or take a few SP or Crit) to a piece without it. The idea should be that they can still use it where before the Healing conversion to Damage was bad enough that they'd never be usable, but that should be enough. Even then, I'd be fine with it except that they're not maintaining the gear consolidation from both directions. If DPS classes can get something out of Spirit, why can't healers get something out of Hit (maybe a conversion to Crit) because, as it stands, DPS classes can justify rolling on every piece a healer would want, but a healer can only justify rolling on a subset of those.

So, for the sake of balance, I can buy giving Mages and Warlocks some benefit from Spirit, but the scaling shouldn't be so similar to Priests. Discipline absolutely should get something from Spirit too since it's unavoidable for them now and they may want some anyway for regen.


To the poster above, 20% of Spirit to Crit in a talent is probably a little too much. I think a simple fix would just be to rework an existing talent and I think Enlightenment may be a good one. Rather than giving 2/4/6% Spirit and 2/4/6% Haste, it could give something like 3/7/10% of Spirit to Haste and Crit which should work out to roughly the same amount of itemization and make Spirit scale better for Discipline. Or, better yet, just fix Inner Fire so it gives us a secondary effect based on Spirit too.