Shadow Word:Death.....of your dps!?

[Necrotisies]

I've been hearing lots of posts about the usage of SW in pve spell rotation, and to be honest I'm still unsure. Its not the self damage thats the concern. Its whether an instant dmg spell(10% bonus chance crit from 4 set t7.5) is better than Mind Flay(has 3 chances to crit).

Mind flay definately feels smoother since i'm using all of my GCD channeling, but SW has a larger crit chance which would then proc spirit tap/glyph of shad.
Since this is hypothetical, lets say we're fighting a stationary boss that doesn't require much kiting,(since SW would be at its prime)

Any thoughts/data/ on the matter? or stories about the lingering pain from the WotF nerf

[Necrotisies]

:-[ Did not see the other post regarding the same subject. But in my defense my topic title is VASTLY more witty! So feel free to post ;D

[Kelesti]

:-[ Did not see the other post regarding the same subject. But in my defense my topic title is VASTLY more witty! So feel free to post ;D

Two ticks of Mind Flay is better use of your mana and your time. 1 for 1, Death is better. Death is also better anytime you're moving.

It's not the 4pc t7 that gives it the awesomeness, it's the glyph (+10% damage on targets below 35%) because increased crit chance does not equate to increased scaling, which an instant spell generally does poorly.

However, when it does crit you get rewarded with more regen and slightly higher dps (improved spirit tap buff ftw?)

[arcticfox]

Only use SW if you have the 4 piece Tier 7. If not don't bother.

[Strykzor]

Dont even bother putting SWD on your bars, people will tell you as they have said before its situational, u can use it on the run, this is just a waste, as most fights that u have to move on are ones where u are trying to avoid damage not take more, a SWD crit can almost seal your fate with 2 Eruption ticks (ddr boss) and Sarth 3drake while the shadow damage taken debuff is active.

People also might say that using SWD Just before your MB comes off cooldown or just before u need to reapply a dot, this is just idiots, use mindflay or overlap your VT (I suggest against the 2nd option as it requires your 100% attention on your VT ticks and u really only would do this on patchwerk)

[Pengwnmastr]

a SWD crit can almost seal your fate with 2 Eruption ticks (ddr boss)

If you get hit by the dance, you doing it wrong.

I'm able to get a 2 tick MF in between each lava(?) blast let alone at least 5 SW: D

[Nezoia]

Bloody hell, how many times are we going to discuss that spell?

It's only been what, SIX MONTHS.

[Worshaka]

This has been discussed quite a bit but for the people who say SW is useless they really dont understand math terribly well.

1. SW costs 1 GCD
2. MF (full duration will always cost 2 GCDs)
3. 2 ticks of MF > 1 GCD
4. 1 tick of MF < 1 GCD and therefore not terribly effecient.

Assuming 11.11% haste

1. SW costs 1.35 seconds
2. Full duration MF costs 2.7 seconds
3. 2 Ticks of MF costs 1.8 seconds
4. 1 Tick of MF costs 0.9 seconds but a 1.35sec GCD is still enforced.

Therefore when you compare 2 ticks of MF to 1 SW you are conviently ignoring the 0.45sec difference in cast time which in most circumstances directly delays your next MB cast. This also assumes you clip MF exactly on time which I doubt is humanly possible without making any mistakes. I would argue that you would clip MF at 2.0 seconds on a regular basis. I would then suggest that 2 clips of MF results in delaying your MB cast by 0.65 seconds, the MB spell cycle is equal to 1.35 (cast) + 5.5 seconds (CD) = 6.85 seconds, therefore dealying it by 0.65 seconds amounts to a 9.5% delay. I would estimate you need to make a decision what to do with 1 GCD every 3 cycles so you potential miss out on casting 3% of your Mind Blasts using this strategy.

SW on the other hand fits into the GCD perfectly, there is no issue about trying to clip the spell meaning you can pretty much queue the next spell instantly. SW is higher dps until you reach a certain level of gear, and even when it becomes slightly less DPS than MF it won't delay your MBs. So until the dps of MF > SW + the loss of MB dps by casting 2 ticks of MF, SW is still a viable spell to use.

Can I point out for the last time... simcraft using SW in the rotation as higher dps than no SW. I concede the dps gain is almost insignificant but it shows that the statment "SW is lower dps" is illinformed at best. My personal opinion is that it's ok to use SW (when used properly) and its just as ok not to use it... it comes down to personal style but as simcraft points out, either strategy arrives at nearly exactly the same number. If you want to be technically correct, SW is 11 more dps than no SW (from the top of my head, results are posted in simcraft).

[Kamakaze0zzy]

This has been discussed quite a bit but for the people who say SW is useless they really dont understand math terribly well.

1. SW costs 1 GCD
2. MF (full duration will always cost 2 GCDs)
3. 2 ticks of MF > 1 GCD
4. 1 tick of MF < 1 GCD and therefore not terribly effecient.

Assuming 11.11% haste

1. SW costs 1.35 seconds
2. Full duration MF costs 2.7 seconds
3. 2 Ticks of MF costs 1.8 seconds
4. 1 Tick of MF costs 0.9 seconds but a 1.35sec GCD is still enforced.

Therefore when you compare 2 ticks of MF to 1 SW you are conviently ignoring the 0.45sec difference in cast time which in most circumstances directly delays your next MB cast. This also assumes you clip MF exactly on time which I doubt is humanly possible without making any mistakes. I would argue that you would clip MF at 2.0 seconds on a regular basis. I would then suggest that 2 clips of MF results in delaying your MB cast by 0.65 seconds, the MB spell cycle is equal to 1.35 (cast) + 5.5 seconds (CD) = 6.85 seconds, therefore dealying it by 0.65 seconds amounts to a 9.5% delay. I would estimate you need to make a decision what to do with 1 GCD every 3 cycles so you potential miss out on casting 3% of your Mind Blasts using this strategy.

SW on the other hand fits into the GCD perfectly, there is no issue about trying to clip the spell meaning you can pretty much queue the next spell instantly. SW is higher dps until you reach a certain level of gear, and even when it becomes slightly less DPS than MF it won't delay your MBs. So until the dps of MF > SW + the loss of MB dps by casting 2 ticks of MF, SW is still a viable spell to use.

Can I point out for the last time... simcraft using SW in the rotation as higher dps than no SW. I concede the dps gain is almost insignificant but it shows that the statment "SW is lower dps" is illinformed at best. My personal opinion is that it's ok to use SW (when used properly) and its just as ok not to use it... it comes down to personal style but as simcraft points out, either strategy arrives at nearly exactly the same number. If you want to be technically correct, SW is 11 more dps than no SW (from the top of my head, results are posted in simcraft).

This girl knows her shit!

[Strykzor]

If you get hit by the dance, you doing it wrong.

I'm able to get a 2 tick MF in between each lava(?) blast let alone at least 5 SW: D

Yeah, not everyone is as good as me, so i thought id compensate for that.

[Acerra]

@ Strykzor

You, sir, make me smile. It really is amusing to watch you run around the priest forums yelling rawr rawr pew rawr lookatme lookatme pew rawr at all the commonly accepted shadow priest knowledge. I for one am a big fan of questioning what is commonly accepted until you try for yourself, but rather than do that by simply offering your opinion you tell people they are bad for not naming themselves Strykzor with some funky dots over the vowels and copying your play style while simultaneously burning offerings to you. Fortunately for the curious readers out there your posts do tend to contain a little practical advice, though you normally do a good job of hiding it behind that soapbox you are all too fond of. So rather than spouting out nonsense about "overlapping" VT, which I believe means "precasting" VT(The capable spriest should not be letting VT fall off before they begin casting it again-the ticks you lose by doing so could kill an army) - that statement,in your own words, "is just idiots". Perhaps my post was just as unhelpful as his, but I hope you will forgive me for feeling the need to be cheeky.

What you should be concentrating on is the fact that with high levels of spell power and crit using SW can be pretty dangerous as it can literally hit you like a Peterbilt.

So to be safe use mindflay, to be cool/daring/a little masochistic use SW
And remember, in the words of the mighty strykzor: the rest is just idiots, the rest is just idiots

[Strykzor]

Ive got a cold and my eyes are a bit watery and its a long post but i think you're saying that Im right, so its a good post.

In relation to
"with high levels of spell power and crit using SW can be pretty dangerous"
That mean it is dangerous as in recoil damage?
or dangerous in actual dps output?

Coz im in the High 40% crit in raids and 2700sp without procs, and still find no use at all for SWD, only reason i use it is for keeping SW/Illusion up when i am moving and it wont put my life in danger.

[Acerra]

Short post this time. I was saying you are a tireless windbag and that the statements you present as fact really should only be given as sage advice.
Bottom line- 1 Death>1 tick of MF...in any situation in which we have stated that SW should be used, replacing it with 2 ticks of MF causes you to delay casting MB. Significant or not, those are the facts of the situation, do with them what you will.

[AetherMcLoud]

Bottom line- 1 Death>1 tick of MF...

(AFAIK) Only if you have the 4piece set bonus. Which nobody really has.

[Kelesti]

(AFAIK) Only if you have the 4piece set bonus. Which nobody really has.

It's not the 4 set, it's the glyph that makes it scale better for crying out loud.

[AetherMcLoud]

It's not the 4 set, it's the glyph that makes it scale better for crying out loud.

In the immortal words of a kobold:

You no take Mindflay Glyph!

In my words: I just couldn't live without the Mindflay glyph. MF should have 30/36 range standard, the glyph is bullshit but pretty much needed (i.e. malygos and others).

[Kelesti]

In the immortal words of a kobold:

You no take Mindflay Glyph!

In my words: I just couldn't live without the Mindflay glyph. MF should have 30/36 range standard, the glyph is bullshit but pretty much needed (i.e. malygos and others).

Whenever I slip into shadow (rare, but it does happen for the occasional EoE 25 and Naxx), I keep the old thinking of "sigh, have to stand 8 yards infront of everyone else" but totems etc are still reaching me.

Sure it'd be awesome for MF to be 30/36 yards standard, but it's not. And in my personal opinion (not anybody else's) I'm happier with my Death Glyph.

[Abandon]

I am going to try replacing the Mind Flay glyph with Shadow Word: Death and start weaving it into my rotations, and see if I notice the change in DPS. I can see drawbacks with it on fights like Maly and Heigan the Unclean, but if it is something I can work around it does provide me with extra scaling, especially since I have the 4-piece set bonus (I know they are not best in slot but I just like getting full tier sets). I can see it being a problem on fights with AoE, however. Accidentally killing yourself because you got a Sundial proc and SW crit is never fun.

It would help with keeping Spirit Tap procced on yourself as well.

[Nezoia]

Progress raiding incoming.

Progress raiding = More new things to take care about, more need for maximum range, and need for less friendly-fire from that kind of abilities.

The short of the long is it's not doing enough damage for being worth using, and wasting a glyph slot on.

Raiding is not about doing top damage, certainly not as a shadow priest.

[Abandon]

Agreed, but if I can test if it increases my DPS rotation I can go back to it once everyone is used to the new boss encounters. It is always nice knowing what your highest DPS spec and glyph combinations are.