Shadow: Two points in Veiled Shadows?

[syanid]

Probably indented, Dispersion doesn't mitigate the damage once the debuff ends. Oh well.. that's why we got VE

It was funny seeing all those people losing HP while 2 shadow priests were nearly untouched :>

[Girryn]

This is how I would spec:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9767

I really don't see why you would spec anything else. Just seem stupid to me, I mean really is there anything to discuss?
Imp. Shadowform? Well try some bosses and see if u rly need it, if you do then go respec. I'm pretty sure I wont need it.
Full Shadow Reach? Well if u feel like u need it then swap a point from Inner Focus, Veiled Shadows or Imp. Vampiric Embrace. But really I find all of those talents better than reach.

1 more point in shadow reach puts MF at 36yds so you can be out of wing buffet range on Razorscale.

[UnemMun]

1 more point in shadow reach puts MF at 36yds so you can be out of wing buffet range on Razorscale.

I though you typed Razorgore and I started to wonder..

[Abandon]

My Shadowfiend was meleeing for about 1400 hits today in VoA. Taking two minutes off the cooldown of what is basically a DoT that gives me back half my mana bar seems like a good idea.

[Zinge]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...gee&gn=Tribute


If you spec into shadow affinity you're bad, your tanks are bad, and you should respec and gquit now.

[Nezoia]

Shadow Affinity is well worth it for fights like Iron Council where you'll often be in melee range of the bosses, hence generating more threat.

Improved Vampiric Embrace > XT-002 as well, and damage on Razorscale.

I rather use my talent points on something that ensures I don't have to worry about threat at all, in any progress encounter, than on Spirit Tap, which I can surely tell I don't need.

You all think of builds for doing Patchwerk, I can't stop laughing at how stupid that is.

Also shadowfiend got a ability that makes it do reasonable dps, enough to be worth spec'ing into, and use it at important part of progress.

[Nezoia]

And last time I used Shadow Affinity was for pre. 3.0 Sunwell progress.

[Zeuq]

Shadow Affinity is well worth it for fights like Iron Council where you'll often be in melee range of the bosses, hence generating more threat.

You don't build more threat in melee range, you just pull it sooner (110% of tank threat instead of 130%, IIRC). How much DPS are you pulling and how much threat are your tanks building? Can a tank not spare a Vigilance or a Paladin a Hand of Salvation if it gets fuzzy? Granted, I haven't gotten to do those fights yet, thanks to the instance servers being down since they pushed 3.1, and even then I'm a healer, but even on fights I've seen where people have mentioned potential threat issues up to this point, I haven't seen anyone getting close enough to warrant 3/3 SA. Even if you are potentially having threat problems, I have to wonder if it's worth 3 points. Could you possibly get away with only 1 or 2 instead?

Improved Vampiric Embrace > XT-002 as well, and damage on Razorscale.

I can believe it might be useful, but if you have a Holy Paladin you can probably give up Improved Shadowform for it. If you don't have mana problems, why not give up Focused Mind since it's ONLY a mana talent?

I rather use my talent points on something that ensures I don't have to worry about threat at all, in any progress encounter, than on Spirit Tap, which I can surely tell I don't need.

It isn't just a mana talent though, it does have at least a small affect on DPS by virtue of Improved Spirit tap increasing your Spell Power on crits. It may not be a whole lot, but with DoTs now critting, I'd expect it would have a pretty high uptime.

You all think of builds for doing Patchwerk, I can't stop laughing at how stupid that is.

I agree that that is stupid, but I'm just wondering why you're giving up IST over FM or ISF. IST is definitely some DPS and mana, FM is only mana (and probably comparable to what IST gives) and ISF is potentially not useful at all when combined with a Holy Pally. So, if you could give your reasoning as to why you give up IST first, I'd be interested in seeing it. If you're just going to accuse people of continuing to spec for Patchwerk, then you're not just being smug and unhelpful.

Also shadowfiend got a ability that makes it do reasonable dps, enough to be worth spec'ing into, and use it at important part of progress.

I completely agree with this. Even if the mana isn't useful, the extra DPS is nice, and even better if you can time it properly with a Heroism/Bloodlust.

[Zinge]

Shadow Affinity is well worth it for fights like Iron Council where you'll often be in melee range of the bosses, hence generating more threat.

Improved Vampiric Embrace > XT-002 as well, and damage on Razorscale.

I rather use my talent points on something that ensures I don't have to worry about threat at all, in any progress encounter, than on Spirit Tap, which I can surely tell I don't need.

You all think of builds for doing Patchwerk, I can't stop laughing at how stupid that is.

Also shadowfiend got a ability that makes it do reasonable dps, enough to be worth spec'ing into, and use it at important part of progress.

I did IC last night and never got close to pulling aggro without Shadow Affinity. Your tanks are bad.

Pro tip, have your paladins do the damage sacrifice on Tantrum. Imp VE is pretty nice in some situations, but we've been able to clear up to Auriaya without it.

IST increases spirit=more spell power= more spellpower agin from glyph of shadow=more dps=also more healing from VE

We dont build specs around patchwerk, we build specs around what is needed and what isnt. Threat Reduction isnt needed.

People who dont spec into Veiled shadows are retarded.

[Nezoia]

I did IC last night and never got close to pulling aggro without Shadow Affinity. Your tanks are bad.

Our tanks are just fine, there is more aggro intensive fights that Iron Council where they tank fine without it. However, I find that it allows me to concentrate more on other things than aggro.

Because spending 3 points on Spirit Tap which you don't need at all, buffs the raid, yes?

IST increases spirit=more spell power= more spellpower agin from glyph of shadow=more dps=also more healing from VE

I did the math, 5 points for 2 spellpower is not worth it.

Pro tip, have your paladins do the damage sacrifice on Tantrum. Imp VE is pretty nice in some situations, but we've been able to clear up to Auriaya without it.

It's not a question of if you can do it without it, it's a question of it helps the raid.

I think it's hard to prove that more healing from Vampiric Embrace is not better raid utility than Imp. Spirit Tap.

Also you set your talents after your raid setup. If I pick Shadow Affinity over Spirit Tap is my choice. I don't need the regen, maby you do.

And I'd still say you're not doing enough dps and not keeping VE enough, if you're not getting very close to your tanks.

So, if you could give your reasoning as to why you give up IST first, I'd be interested in seeing it.

To clarify it precisely:

The spellpower gain is to small to be noticed, and I don't need the mana regen. The ability to use high aggro abilities (including AoE) is more important to me than IST.

And with the shadowfiend buff , and movement requirement in some boss fights (XT, Icon Council, Razorscale), you can easily get to use Dispersion (and save healing, like when you get slagged on Ignis, or Picked up by Kologarn).

So it's a personal choice, and I don't say everybody should do it. But I'm not loosing any DPS talents.

[Zinge]

My dps is fine, i was top for IC and Kologarn. Keeping non imp VE as well. Granted i dont have extra healing aggro, but it wouldnt be enough to warrant Shadow affinity

[Girryn]

I find Shadow affinity more useful than IST as well. I never find myself wishing I had taken IST over SA but the few times i don't have SA and it would have made a difference hurt. There are plenty of fights where a tank is unable to pull their on paper threat due to focussing on movement or timing cooldowns etc. a few points in SA allows you to have 100% IMP VE uptime without having to stop dps ever. VE is a 5 minute duration now, you cannot let it fall off if threat is an issue anymore so you would be stuck gimping your dps for the entire fight.

SA gives me more room for error when I play shadow (offspec), with 1000 spirit IST gives me 15-25 spellpower depending on if I have glyph of shadow. I do not even gem 19sp on my offset gear, why would I care about investing 5 talent points for a 15-25sp gain that doesn't even have 100% uptime?

DoT crits do not proc IST, read the tooltip fools.

EDIT: How the hell can you use "get better tanks" as your argument? This is about the priests spec not about their raid comp, SA may be needed for bad tanks or ones that focus entirely on survival and have weaker threat.

[Zinge]

SA gives me more room for error when I play shadow (offspec), with 1000 spirit IST gives me 15-25 spellpower depending on if I have glyph of shadow. I do not even gem 19sp on my offset gear, why would I care about investing 5 talent points for a 15-25sp gain that doesn't even have 100% uptime?

DoT crits do not proc IST, read the tooltip fools.

EDIT: How the hell can you use "get better tanks" as your argument? This is about the priests spec not about their raid comp, SA may be needed for bad tanks or ones that focus entirely on survival and have weaker threat.

Ever heard of Min/maxing dps? Apparently not. We might as well use green gems because its only a small difference in spell power.

Ive killed Hodir so far and had no threat issues what so ever. Your tanks are bad if you need to spec into SA because you pull threat.

[adezero]

How do you even get the shadowfiend to autocast shadow crawl? the button looks like an autocast, but it does not do anything. it says it's a 5 second buff with a 6 second cooldown. so it should be up 5/6ths of the time. but it's a pain in the ass to manually click that ability (or even make a macro and hit it every 6 seconds for your shadowfiend).

[Pandore]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbu...fzbfqfzAo:qhaV
/discuss

[AetherMcLoud]

How do you even get the shadowfiend to autocast shadow crawl? the button looks like an autocast, but it does not do anything. it says it's a 5 second buff with a 6 second cooldown. so it should be up 5/6ths of the time. but it's a pain in the ass to manually click that ability (or even make a macro and hit it every 6 seconds for your shadowfiend).

I would very much like to know this too!

[Nezoia]

We got great tanks, but this is progress raiding people. If our tank is using MAX AVOIDANCE on a boss like Ignis, and you're getting every single buff, bloodlust, and precasting Wild Magic potions, plus using Vampiric Embrace, you're bound to get fucking close to him in threat.

Hand of Salvation is for our dps warriors and mages.

SA is perfectly fine, and have nothing to do with bad tanks, it's a "rather safe than sorry" talent, which I picked over IST.

IST is un-needed, and I wouldn't pick it anyway, as I want the two points for Vampiric Embrace, since the self-healing is absolutely awesome on every single Ulduar encounter so far.

[Nezoia]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbu...fzbfqfzAo:qhaV
/discuss

How many times should we repeat that it's been mathematical proved on EJ that Focus Mind is more mana conservative than IST.

And I still encourages people to try figure out how much IST account for of their dps.

My total spirit accounts for around 700 (with DS, but without kings), so it's a equal 70 spirit, which accounts for about 7 spellpower.

So here's your options: 7 spellpower for 5 talent points, or a "never ever ever be able to pull aggro, no matter what happends" for 3 points, and a "omg insane self-healing" for 2 points.

To sum up: I don't think I'll be running SA when we reach farm-raid status. But for progress I find it worth the points. And it got nothing to do with our tanks.

[Kelesti]

How many times should we repeat that it's been mathematical proved on EJ that Focus Mind is more mana conservative than IST.

And I still encourages people to try figure out how much IST account for of their dps.

My total spirit accounts for around 700 (with DS, but without kings), so it's a equal 70 spirit, which accounts for about 7 spellpower.

So here's your options: 7 spellpower for 5 talent points, or a "never ever ever be able to pull aggro, no matter what happends" for 3 points, and a "omg insane self-healing" for 2 points.

To sum up: I don't think I'll be running SA when we reach farm-raid status. But for progress I find it worth the points. And it got nothing to do with our tanks.

It's actually 14 spellpower, without Kings. 15.4 with Kings. But you're right.

[Nezoia]

70 spirit gives me 7 spell power without kings. I checked in-game before writing it.