Shadow Affinity

[Qualia]

I find it irony that the person calling 10men lolmode, calling other people bad & acting like he's so good hasn't even down Mimiron yet =) not to mention the hardmode contents. If your tanks and dpsers are so good you should at least killed Yogg if not few hard mode bosses already, shouldn't you?


.... or maybe your tanks just not that good, and Shadow Affinity, as many good SPs will agree, isn't such a worthy talent as you thought.
IST increase your dps by a small margin, true, but so did drums, and look at how many people rolled LW just for drums in SW =) that's what you called min-maxing. Absolutely needed to down a boss? No; Needed for min-maxing? Yes.

[Nezoia]

I still think doing 1000 TPS less is better than doing 10 dps more

And how about stop with the lame personal attacks, because if you have fought Mimiron, you very well know it's not about dps, but about people doing personal mistakes and dying to stupid shit.

DPS always been the least important factor in PvE.

[Kelesti]

You should all be ashamed for contributing to global warming on EARTH DAY!!

Watch out, it's Al Gore!

[jinxx]

I still think doing 1000 TPS less is better than doing 10 dps more

And how about stop with the lame personal attacks, because if you have fought Mimiron, you very well know it's not about dps, but about people doing personal mistakes and dying to stupid shit.

DPS always been the least important factor in PvE.

Fact is if your tanks are reasonably good you won't need to do less TPS and then a little more DPS is better than less TPS, it's just a fact. Maybe you think it's better to do less TPS still, but then you're wrong.

About the "lame personal attacks" maybe you should stop acting like an all-knowing arrogant prick who is the best player in the world if you don't want people to react to it? Obviously people will check up on you and call you out for what you are; a mediocre player who posts silly stuff here since it makes you feel like you're oh so great.

And the last statements on your behalf are just plain stupid. The more DPS you can do the less you strain healer mana and the faster a boss goes down the less time there is to make mistakes. Not to mention that some bosses have enrage timers and you have to be able to beat those.

So basically you've been arguing a point that every thinking Shadowpriest knows is wrong and now you're trying to cover it up by saying "Ummm guise DPS is the least important thing". It's plain wrong and you know that as well as I do.

Besides no matter how you look at it if you're a raider in a good guild then it's your obligation towards your guildmates to maximize your performance and you most certainly don't do that by skipping talents that increase DPS to get talents that give pretty much no benefit.

[Nezoia]

I'm the one who though the entire thread said it's up to the individual to pick IST or SA.

You're the people who call everybody who disagree with your opinion retards, and do personal attack on them.

I think I'm better to judge what fits best into my raid group, and give arguments for why I think it's right. You can choose to disagree, but it doesn't make YOU godly righteous.

It's YOU who think you're the only person who can tell the truth, not me.

But it's the same usually bullshit on forums. Just because I posted a lot here over a 1½ year long period, and got a high post count, people automatically assume me being superior and only say true things.

Pfft, you're all just horrible trolls who should try grasp a larger aspect of the game than your own personal dps.

And since you're "oh so good", where you're Algalon title? If you're so perfect, and play so good, why haven't you defeated all content in the game? What, you say your entire guild aren't perfect?

Then you perhaps should leave it, since you're oh so far, to tell everybody else to leave theirs !

[Abandon]

I find it irony that the person calling 10men lolmode, calling other people bad & acting like he's so good hasn't even down Mimiron yet =) not to mention the hardmode contents. If your tanks and dpsers are so good you should at least killed Yogg if not few hard mode bosses already, shouldn't you?


.... or maybe your tanks just not that good, and Shadow Affinity, as many good SPs will agree, isn't such a worthy talent as you thought.
IST increase your dps by a small margin, true, but so did drums, and look at how many people rolled LW just for drums in SW =) that's what you called min-maxing. Absolutely needed to down a boss? No; Needed for min-maxing? Yes.

Just a few problems with your post, if I may.

10man content is far easier than 25man. There are fewer players to make mistakes and the encounters are designed to be easier. Also, being in a good guild does not mean being in a guild that raids 5 hours a night 6 nights a week. Some people could not afford to take a week off of work because there are some new bosses out for their video game.

How exactly do you propose that they should do the hard mode encounters already? Do you mean that they should only be attempting the bosses on hard mode and not killing them unless it is on the hard mode encounter? Despite the fact that the patch was released a WEEK AGO, and not everyone was spending their spare time on the PTR testing these bosses. So unless you think that a guild interested in progression only attempts hard modes, please don't try and flame someone for not being in a good guild.

Qualia, did your guild only do OS3D, or did you try killing the drakes and then the main boss first? Oh, you did it the normal way? FAIL, YOU DIDN'T COMPLETE HARDMODE IN THE FIRST WEEK OF CONTENT BEING RELEASED, YOUR TANKS, DPS AND HEALERS ARE ALL FAIL.



Anyway, I have taken the patch refunding talent points as an opportunity to try out giving up Spirit Tap in exchange for much lower threat and Mind Mastery. After pulling aggro a few times on Thorim adds in the Pit, it seems like a good idea. And no, it is not because my tanks are bad. It is because there are a hell of a lot of adds, Mind Sear crits a lot and even a good AoE tank will not have complete and permanent threat on all the adds after one tick of Conscecration. A string of Mind Sear crits on the same target who has just joined the fight and your tanks skill does not matter. Me getting a string of crits is not something they can prepare for or prevent.

[Abandon]

Besides no matter how you look at it if you're a raider in a good guild then it's your obligation towards your guildmates to maximize your performance and you most certainly don't do that by skipping talents that increase DPS to get talents that give pretty much no benefit.

If you are not near the threat cap of your tank on AoE heavy fights like Thorim then you are not doing enough DPS. If you are doing your max DPS and staying just under the tanks threat, then you are performing at your best, especially with all that extra spellpower you are getting from Spirit Tap.

I am doing 25% more damage than you because I have 25% less threat to worry about anddon't have to stop DPS even with a string of lucky crits. Sorry, 24% more damage, I am missing the 15 spellpower you gain from spending 5 talent points in Spirit Tap.

[Yarmi]

I'm the one who though the entire thread said it's up to the individual to pick IST or SA.

You're the people who call everybody who disagree with your opinion retards, and do personal attack on them.

I think I'm better to judge what fits best into my raid group, and give arguments for why I think it's right. You can choose to disagree, but it doesn't make YOU godly righteous.

It's YOU who think you're the only person who can tell the truth, not me.

But it's the same usually bullshit on forums. Just because I posted a lot here over a 1½ year long period, and got a high post count, people automatically assume me being superior and only say true things.

Pfft, you're all just horrible trolls who should try grasp a larger aspect of the game than your own personal dps.

And since you're "oh so good", where you're Algalon title? If you're so perfect, and play so good, why haven't you defeated all content in the game? What, you say your entire guild aren't perfect?

Then you perhaps should leave it, since you're oh so far, to tell everybody else to leave theirs !

Wise words Nez.

[jinxx]

Rofl fanbrigade to Nezoia's rescue. Guess this is all about covering your buddy's asses and not looking at things objectively. Either way, let's have a look at things.

I'm the one who though the entire thread said it's up to the individual to pick IST or SA.

You're the people who call everybody who disagree with your opinion retards, and do personal attack on them.

I think I'm better to judge what fits best into my raid group, and give arguments for why I think it's right. You can choose to disagree, but it doesn't make YOU godly righteous.

It's YOU who think you're the only person who can tell the truth, not me.

But it's the same usually bullshit on forums. Just because I posted a lot here over a 1½ year long period, and got a high post count, people automatically assume me being superior and only say true things.

Pfft, you're all just horrible trolls who should try grasp a larger aspect of the game than your own personal dps.

And since you're "oh so good", where you're Algalon title? If you're so perfect, and play so good, why haven't you defeated all content in the game? What, you say your entire guild aren't perfect?

Then you perhaps should leave it, since you're oh so far, to tell everybody else to leave theirs !

Let's start off by showing some examples of your incredible rudeness and arrogance, which you have no reason to be. And these are just from this thread:

Shadow Affinity for AoE on Thorium > you.

I still think it's handy Doing 12500 dps on Thorim is a lot of aggro!

(More trying to showoff than being arrogant I guess)

So where did you pull points from to get both?

Focused Mind? Because then you're dumb, as Focused Mind is saving you more mana than IST.

Specially on Thorim. Come discuss aggro with me once you done heroic Thorim, then I might bother listening to you.

And you know what? I'm getting divine bubbles on that fight, that's how much aggro I generate ;-)

I'll be Vampiric Embrace over 14 spellpower any day. And so you should, at least for progress raiding. I can only assume we're not talking about facerolling in Naxx anymore.

Worshaka please don't compare 10man lolmode to real raiding (read: 25man).

You done Thorim 25man yet?

Our tanks is also doing 7k tps, but without shadow affinity I would be able to reach them :-)

You're not doing enough dps!

I still fail to see the argument over why:

NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER PULL AGGRO EVER !

versus

TINY BIT OF SPELLPOWER AND LULZ MANA REGEN

If I'm ever talking about Ulduar lolmode (aka. 10man), I'll say so explicit

If your warriors and mages don't spam your paladins for Hand of Salvation, then they're not doing enough dps.

'nuff said.

Anyways on to your points. You claim you're saying it's up to the individual whether they want to pick SA or IST, yet as proven above you mock people who disagree with you. That doesn't really fit.

Maybe you're better to judge what fits into your raid group, but then you shouldn't argue like what you're saying is the absolute truth. Fact is still if you're out to maximize your output you should generally not pick up SA over IST unless your tanks suck.

And I'm definitely not arguing like I'm the only one who knows the truth here, I'm saying that Shadow Affinity is worthless if you have good tanks, which is a fact, and that IST is a DPS increase and should be taken if you're out to maximize your DPS output, which again is a fact. I never said that you must pick IST or must not take Shadow Affinity, but if you're a high-end raider I would strongly encourage you to pick IST and not SA. But then again if you were a high-end raider you wouldn't have to ask about that here.

Me thinking that you're arrogant and acting superior has nothing to do with your post count. It has to do with your posts in the Priest forum, especially the ones in here, as well as other posts where you basically posted downright wrong info. For instance claiming that you generate threat faster in melee range; it just shows you really don't know all too much. When that's combined with your attitude then I have to call you out on your faults.

As for myself I have cleared all normal mode content, we only just started working on hard-modes since we wanted server first on normal Yogg-Saron before anything else. And you know as well as I that Algalon is not feasible to do yet so asking where my Algalon title is is just stupid. Pre-WotLK I've killed M'uru and Kil'jaeden before they got nerfed into the ground so I actually have a clue what I'm talking about, but unlike you I don't have to act like a prick towards random people. Look up Torgeir on Balnazzar-EU if you must or Thorgrimm for my pre-WotLK character. I'll be happy to supply raid parses too if that's not good enough for you.

Finally my guild is far from perfect, so am I. I make plenty of mistakes, but I'm a good player, most likely far better than you, yet I don't have to act like a turd.

[jinxx]

If you are not near the threat cap of your tank on AoE heavy fights like Thorim then you are not doing enough DPS. If you are doing your max DPS and staying just under the tanks threat, then you are performing at your best, especially with all that extra spellpower you are getting from Spirit Tap.

I am doing 25% more damage than you because I have 25% less threat to worry about anddon't have to stop DPS even with a string of lucky crits. Sorry, 24% more damage, I am missing the 15 spellpower you gain from spending 5 talent points in Spirit Tap.

You're making very little sense. Our tanks have no issues keeping threat off me while AoE'ing or going full-out on Hodir/Vezax so the rest of your points are basically moot. You're not doing 25% more damage than me because you have 25% less threat to worry about. I am doing more damage than you, if we do the exact same things, because I have IST and don't have to worry about threat.

Unfortunately I wasn't AoE'ing on Thorim as I was busy mind-controlling Warbringers, but none of the other DPS'ers in our raid managed to pull aggro while going all out with Aura of Celerity. That says to me that I wouldn't be able to either.

As I said earlier arguing that IST is no good because it's only 15, or whatever, spellpower is as silly as arguing that common gems are good enough because rare gems are only slightly better.

[Abandon]

You're making very little sense. Our tanks have no issues keeping threat off me while AoE'ing or going full-out on Hodir/Vezax so the rest of your points are basically moot. You're not doing 25% more damage than me because you have 25% less threat to worry about. I am doing more damage than you, if we do the exact same things, because I have IST and don't have to worry about threat.

Unfortunately I wasn't AoE'ing on Thorim as I was busy mind-controlling Warbringers, but none of the other DPS'ers in our raid managed to pull aggro while going all out with Aura of Celerity. That says to me that I wouldn't be able to either.

As I said earlier arguing that IST is no good because it's only 15, or whatever, spellpower is as silly as arguing that common gems are good enough because rare gems are only slightly better.

If there is any situation where you have to stop damage because of threat, then I will do more damage than you assuming identical gear. If not, then you gain a proc for 15 spellpower when Mind Blast crits and do slightly more single target damage. And the gem comparison is not accurate. You are saying not putting 5 talent points into Spirit Tap is the same as not using the best gems. That would be true if I was not gaining anything from the 5 points I took out of Spirit Tap. I am basically gaining up to 25% more damage in any situation where threat is an issue, like AoE on the Thorim fight.

[Nezoia]

And it's really hard to know if there is any situations in a new dungeon like Ulduar, where you possible could have threat issues.

Better do lower damage while progressing, then reconsidering when everything reached a familiar mode.

But hey, only retards thing like that, right?!?

[jinxx]

If there is any situation where you have to stop damage because of threat, then I will do more damage than you assuming identical gear. If not, then you gain a proc for 15 spellpower when Mind Blast crits and do slightly more single target damage. And the gem comparison is not accurate. You are saying not putting 5 talent points into Spirit Tap is the same as not using the best gems. That would be true if I was not gaining anything from the 5 points I took out of Spirit Tap. I am basically gaining up to 25% more damage in any situation where threat is an issue, like AoE on the Thorim fight.

The flaw in your argumentation is that you claim threat is an issue which most decent players would agree is false in almost all cases as long as the tanks are doing their job. And if threat is not on an issue then my comparison of picking IST vs SA to picking worse gems is fine as SA is worth nothing.

Besides even if you manage to pull aggro for some reason like you being the only AoE'er and going all out before mobs are tanked or your tanks not doing their job you have the ability to fade and keep going. Fading before AoE'ing is also a possibility depending on the situation. And let's face it mobs that you AoE down do not live for a long time.

Anyways like I said above I didn't AoE on Thorim so I can't say anything with 100% certainty, however it seems pretty obvious to me that if the other DPS can't pull aggro with Aura of Celerity then I definitely can't either. And while our tanks are quite good I can't believe they're that much better than all other tanks.

Hypothetically speaking even if I were to agree that SA is useful on AoE duty on Thorim, which I obviously don't, then you have one fight where it's slightly useful. That still would not justify picking it over IST except in that one particular instance and so it's still silly to claim IST is useless and SA is good.

[Nezoia]

Unfortunately I wasn't AoE'ing on Thorim as I was busy mind-controlling Warbringers, but none of the other DPS'ers in our raid managed to pull aggro while going all out with Aura of Celerity. That says to me that I wouldn't be able to either.

You do realise that Mind Sear is the only AoE that's not target-capped right?
Thus it generates fuckloads more aggro than any other AoE spell in the game.

Also we claim the mana regen from IST is useless if we don't go OOM. And then we're left to discuss if 14 spellpower is better than Shadow Affinity and Vampiric Embrace combined.

I'd still pick imp. Vampiric Embrace over IST for progress raiding, the extra healing is far more worth it than 14 spellpower is. If the healing from it saves you a single GCD during a encounter, then it earned itself home.

[jinxx]

I love how some of you guys seemingly always post very shortly after eachother. It seems interesting at least.

And it's really hard to know if there is any situations in a new dungeon like Ulduar, where you possible could have threat issues.

Better do lower damage while progressing, then reconsidering when everything reached a familiar mode.

But hey, only retards thing like that, right?!?

I love how you completely ignore all the things I brought up and just post silly stuff like this. It must be easy winning arguments in your little dreamworld when you just completely ignore the points others make.

Anyways doing more DPS is always a good thing when it costs you nothing. Making a fight shorter basically also makes it easier since it allows people to burn more mana and leaves more room for mistakes.

As for your final comment which is quite retarded imo it would take a very long time to respec over to SA in case you had threat issues once in a blue moon, right?!?

[Nezoia]

So I assume you're going to roflstomp into every instance ever released from now on, with zero experience, and expect the tanks to generate enough threat.

Sorry, I don't belive Blizzard designed WotLK to be completely without threat issues. I expected it to return in Ulduar, perhaps I'm wrong, I'll let you know in a couple of weeks.

And if not, I expect it to return in a later dungeon.

[Abandon]

Currently for progressing through learning boss fights, I prefer having threat completely removed from something I have to think about over a 15 spellpower proc. Once we have downed the bosses and people know the fights well, I will be taking the extra spellpower proc from Spirit Tap and not having to worry about speccing SA. However, since I have found situations so far into Unduar where threat is something you need to worry about, I will be keeping Shadow Affinity.



Honestly, that is the basis of this thread. Would you rather have a 15 spellpower proc while doing this raid for the first time/learning the new encounters, or would you rather remove threat as an issue.

[jinxx]

You do realise that Mind Sear is the only AoE that's not target-capped right?
Thus it generates fuckloads more aggro than any other AoE spell in the game.

Also we claim the mana regen from IST is useless if we don't go OOM. And then we're left to discuss if 14 spellpower is better than Shadow Affinity and Vampiric Embrace combined.

I'd still pick imp. Vampiric Embrace over IST for progress raiding, the extra healing is far more worth it than 14 spellpower is. If the healing from it saves you a single GCD during a encounter, then it earned itself home.

Now you're talking down to people, in this case me, again. In case you wonder why people think you're arrogant then here's a hint; talking to people like they don't know shit tends to give people that impression. I know full well how my class works, that includes Mind Sear. The thing is we have another Shadowpriest in our guild who is along for all progress raids and he has no issues with playing with no SA, including on Thorim.

I have Imp VE on any fight where I use VE and mana isn't a major issue. If you bothered looking at my specs you would know that. Basically the choice is either 2/3 Meditation for me or 2/2 Imp VE because I don't have problems managing my mana.

And before you jump up my ass about Inner Focus, yes I realize it's worth less mp5 than Meditation, but it's a ever so slight DPS increase and very useful on Vezax where Meditation does nothing.

[Abandon]

I love how some of you guys seemingly always post very shortly after eachother. It seems interesting at least.

Hehe, its 3:11 here in Ireland and I am pretty bored, plus this is one of the most interesting topics on the priest forum at the moment :-\

And before you jump up my ass about Inner Focus, yes I realize it's worth less mp5 than Meditation, but it's a ever so slight DPS increase and very useful on Vezax where Meditation does nothing.

Plus, if you use Inner Focus to cast Divine Hymn, the crit bonus is added to each hit of it, which is great for massive AoE damage where you want to help out on raid heals.

[jinxx]

So I assume you're going to roflstomp into every instance ever released from now on, with zero experience, and expect the tanks to generate enough threat.

Sorry, I don't belive Blizzard designed WotLK to be completely without threat issues. I expected it to return in Ulduar, perhaps I'm wrong, I'll let you know in a couple of weeks.

And if not, I expect it to return in a later dungeon.

Then basically you expected wrong about Ulduar unless some of the later hardmodes change things drastically. (I seriously doubt that)

And like I said in a post just above if threat ever became an issue it really takes a long time to go respec to SA right?