Newish to tanking

[PTB_Boston]

So I'm relatively new to tanking (started in the begging of WoTLK). I've tanked 25 Naxx, Mally, and Sarth 2D just fine and I'm not having too much trouble with the new content but I'm not too sure about my stats and what I should be aiming for as far as a standard.

heres where I'm @ now
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...haron&n=Boston

I typically off tank with a DK as a main tank.

Any suggestions on gear, gem, or enchant changes?

[Doddilus]

You're at 552 defense, you can safely ditch the 8 defense 12 stam gems for pure dodge or pure stam. You don't always have to go for the socket bonus.

Do the hodir dalies and get their enchant.


...very minor changes that arguably can be just preference, i'd say you're golden.

[PTB_Boston]

Thanks for the reply...

Whats the deal with shield block? I've heard its pointless now? Is it more important to balance avoidance out or stack on one stack in particular (I realize block =/= avoidance stat)

[Draco cracona]

Thanks for the reply...

Whats the deal with shield block? I've heard its pointless now? Is it more important to balance avoidance out or stack on one stack in particular (I realize block =/= avoidance stat)

BR is useless post 102.4%; BV is good mitigation, especially post 102.4%, which you wnat to be aiming for. With that much BR, you want to be looking at dropping it if you can - I'm pretty sure you're over the cap (dodge+block+parry+1/(1/16+1/miss)); preferably calciuulated with the dodge from raid buffs factored in, which should be over 102.4% but as close to it as possible without giong under. I prefer the Ti earthguard ring to the badge one; Hodir shoulder ench; KT's shield if poss (second best shield in game atm); regem chest for 2x24 sta; I personally prefer the pure avoidance gloves form Maexx; 40 BV shield ench as that 20 def isn't going to have much effect with your DRs so high; Sarth's hit+pure avoidance legs are also better than T7.5 if you can drop the block rat, even though hit is pretty worthless IMO. I'd also take a 22 def chest ench over +10 stats, but overall you're doing quite well, with the important badge loot.

Your spec could use some changes; drop benediction, drop reckoning, max out divinity (more surv is better than threat when threat's a nonissue), drop SotP, grab HotC and PoJ along with 3/5 conv IMO, or just the 5/5 conv iinstead of PoJ. Drop the consecration glyph, use the 969 rotation that the glyph breaks (long CDs taken as 9s CDs and slotted between the 6s CDs), Shield glyphs pretty useless, grab SoV and salv if poss.

[Bael]

Taken as a whole, I'd agree that your gear is doing well. I'd also agree with Doddilus that the shoulder enchant from the Sons of Hodir would be more helpful to you since your current shoulder enchant's resilience is not doing anything for you whatsoever. Also, if you desire to keep your socket bonuses I might recommend an alternative to Doddilus' advice in that regard.

I see that you have respectable dodge, but you're under the hit cap by a bit. I might suggest trying some "vivid" gems (green), or possibly even some +hit (yellow) gems. Sadly I've forgotten the prefix for the latter.

I noticed that your expertise is surprisingly lower than I usually see for a human paladin using a sword. The reason presented itself when I observed your glyphs. I notice that, instead of the glyph of seal of vengeance (+10 expertise _skill_), you opted for the glyph of consecration instead. I'm a little curious how you get your rotation to mesh smoothly now that it's put out of sync with the global cooldowns for the 969 rotation.

Since you use seals of the pure and reckoning, I'm going to guess that you've been using seal of righteousness most of the time. Has that been working well for you as regards threat? Also, have you considered using a judgement glyph (+10% judgement damage (more threat)) instead of a glyph which reduces the mana cost of one of our least costly abilities?

Based on your talent and glyph choices, I'm interpretting that you have trouble keeping enough mana, or at least that you're worried about preventing such a case. Is that right?

Please believe none of these questions are intended as assaults. I'm genuinely curious how encounters typically go for you as someone that uses a different style than I.

As for shield block (I assume you mean value as opposed to rating), I hadn't heard that it was pointless, but I suppose I see how that could easily be inferred. From what I understand, having not yet ventured in myself, the bosses in Ulduar regularly hit a respectably geared tank for upwards of 25000 damage. It's somewhat difficult for me to envision acquiring enough block value to prevent what I would view as a significant portion of that blow. Blocking some is better thank blocking none, however. And as paladins we are presently unique as tanks in that we can fully remove the ability for bosses to hit us (that is they will always roll a dodge, block, parry, or miss once our combined chance reaches 102.4% with Holy Shield active).

Basically it's the same as has generally always been. Warriors block less often for larger amounts. We block almost constantly for small amounts. It's the balance of the two, leading us toward our multi-target tanking niche. Viewed in terms of how to survive with the least healer strain, I have to say, though, that for Ulduar I'd rather have avoidance than much else.

[PTB_Boston]

all good things to consider...

One last thing I'm still unsure about is divine sacrifice. I'd imagine it falls within the territory of tanks but I'm not entirely sure. I assume that it could workout well if there is a pally off tank before adds spawn, for instance, in 10 man XT during the first tantrum. Is there something I'm overlooking or should I begin to incorporate this into my spec

[Draco cracona]

Divine sac is nice for OT/fights where you can't tank all the time, but it's only really useful as filler if you don't need imp. devo due to a tree tbh.

[sainthubbins]

I would suggest swapping out Glyph of Consecration and Glyph of SoR. You're never going to need the help with mana because of infinite Divine Plea, and the Consecrate glyph messes with 96969, which is the Paladin max threat rotation in case you're unaware of it. I'd suggest using Glyph of Seal of vengeance for the expertise, and Glyph of Righteous Defense, just because I'm paranoid about taunts missing. If you'd like to read up on 96969, I'd check out http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/, as well as any other questions you might have. The answers are usually there, and they're nice and helpful people if you have a question.

EDIT: As far as your spec goes, I'd take the 3 points out of Reckoning and one of your two points out of Improved Judgements (again, because of the 969 rotation. You need one point, but the second one doesn't benefit you in any way.) You also have no need for Benediction, between Divine Plea and Spiritual Attunement you have no need for the reduced mana cost. I'd spend 2 of those points in Imp HoJ, it's really nice to have an interrupt on a 20 second CD. Aside from them, I'd pick up Heart of the Crusader and/or Imp Might (depending on your raid makeup) and Pursuit of Justice. That movement speed increase can really come in handy.

[Sahiel]

No specific advice since that's already been given, but a more general comment that will help as you keep learning and progressing as a tank.

Go here:

http://www.failsafedesign.com/mainta...wforum.php?f=4

Read this:

http://www.failsafedesign.com/mainta...ic.php?t=16609

If you have questions use the search function and check other posts in that forum, there's a pretty good chance it's been comprehensively answered before.

You can ask more specifically about gear choices here:

http://www.failsafedesign.com/mainta...wforum.php?f=3

Glad you're enjoying tanking, it's the most fun part of the game imo

[PTB_Boston]

Ive gotten a ton out of my first post on MMO Champion

thanks for the info please keep posting if you have more for me

[nwo]

I disagree with the statement that "hit is pretty useless". Hit is actually one of the most important stats when it comes to pally tanking (if you want to have high TPS that is). You should aim for around 200 hit for raiding. I would also suggest replacing your stam/defense gems with straight up stam.

You should definitely get rid of that helm and get the 10 man naxx horsemen helm. It has a ton of avoidance + a meta socket + another socket. Make sure you gem it with eternal earthsiege diamond (21 defense + 5% block value). I know you don't need the defense with your current stats, but the block value is very nice for a prot pally. Block rating is pretty useless for pallies since you have 30% from holy shield which is up almost all the time unless you are aoe tanking 5+ mobs.

I would consider ditching that defense rating trinket for the badge dodge rating trinket. The badge trinket would give you about 2% base dodge while the defense rating trinket gives you 0.5% dodge/parry/block. Therefore you would get twice as much "real" avoidance with the badge trinket as opposed to the defense rating trinket.

[Draco cracona]

I disagree with the statement that "hit is pretty useless". Hit is actually one of the most important stats when it comes to pally tanking (if you want to have high TPS that is). You should aim for around 200 hit for raiding. I would also suggest replacing your stam/defense gems with straight up stam.

You should definitely get rid of that helm and get the 10 man naxx horsemen helm. It has a ton of avoidance + a meta socket + another socket. Make sure you gem it with eternal earthsiege diamond (21 defense + 5% block value). I know you don't need the defense with your current stats, but the block value is very nice for a prot pally. Block rating is pretty useless for pallies since you have 30% from holy shield which is up almost all the time unless you are aoe tanking 5+ mobs.

I would consider ditching that defense rating trinket for the badge dodge rating trinket. The badge trinket would give you about 2% base dodge while the defense rating trinket gives you 0.5% dodge/parry/block. Therefore you would get twice as much "real" avoidance with the badge trinket as opposed to the defense rating trinket.

When holding threat becomes anything but trivial, then I'll start looking at gearing towards hit, but you should get enough hit with natural gearing tbh, especially in ulduar where hit is coated on most items.

[nwo]

When holding threat becomes anything but trivial, then I'll start looking at gearing towards hit, but you should get enough hit with natural gearing tbh, especially in ulduar where hit is coated on most items.

If you have dps pushing 5-6k on some boss fights (especially ones that attack slow and are main tanked by a pally) then hit is important if you wanna hold agro. Having your shield of righteousness miss takes away a huge chunk of your TPS.

I mean I never said that prot pallies should be gemming for hit, however, the statement that you made "hit rating is useless" is definitely something that I disagree with.