Ulduar Min / Maxing

[Swizzle]

I hope you are not talking to me cause that comment just solidifies that you have no clue what you are talking about. Sure there are upgrades I could get, but there is nothing wrong with my gem choices. You sir lost an argument and you have to resort to a petty insult that did not even make sense. L2P scrub

Ex - 1
Random Idiot - 0

9 spellpower 8 crit gems are for FFB, 9 spellpower 8 haste are for TtW/fireball, and it's been that way....forever, go stroll through EJ sometime, hell, even use rawr, says the same thing. haste>crit.

Swizzle-1
Ex-0

[Emiex]

9 spellpower 8 crit gems are for FFB, 9 spellpower 8 haste are for TtW/fireball, and it's been that way....forever, go stroll through EJ sometime, hell, even use rawr, says the same thing. haste>crit.

Swizzle-1
Ex-0

I love how you find 1 gem out of my entire gear lineup to fault, when the dps difference is less than what 5 dps overall? One would think someone as intelligent as you would understand our previous conversation and accept that your melee are horrible and that mages dont do 7.7k dps and top meters. Wow full circle on this one hu?

Ex - 2
Swizzle - (-1)

[Indarys]

I love how you find 1 gem out of my entire gear lineup to fault, when the dps difference is less than what 5 dps overall? One would think someone as intelligent as you would understand our previous conversation and accept that your melee are horrible and that mages dont do 7.7k dps and top meters. Wow full circle on this one hu?

Ex - 2
Swizzle - (-1)

Don't talk about min maxing then.

Also, your choice of professions (lol mining) and your spec (lol spirit vs flamethrowing) and your boot enchant (lol icewalker).

[Swizzle]

8 stats on chest, 2 count em 2 potent monarch topaz (i believe that is the name of the 9 sp 8 crit gem), and unsullied cuffs (with only 23 spellpower chant and not 30 mind you), all subpar gear and gem choices for TtW/fireball. gg. and note, i know 7.7k dps isn't standard for a mage, but it will be the minimal norm once we get ulduar geared. my initial problem was that you said mages should not be topping meters, when by blizzard's defenition, they should. don't make a statement like that when it is clearly not supportable by meters (if i wasn't supposed to be on top, i would never be there).

[Emiex]

Don't talk about min maxing then.

Also, your choice of professions (lol mining) and your spec (lol spirit vs flamethrowing) and your boot enchant (lol icewalker).

I never claimed that I min max, I put in a lot of effort to assist my guild in PVE, I do not 100% min max. Spirit is a much higher stat that flamethrowing for regen, and more importantly crit based off the new molten armor. Icewalker to boots.... Again hit and crit, what else would you go with for a pve enchant? You sir should pick your battles more carfully because it sounds to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. Oh and before you say it yes I have 23 dmg to bracers and not 30, why? because I am cheap and again just so it sinks in I do not min max. I try to to a certain extent but not all the time.

[Swizzle]

Don't talk about min maxing then.

Also, your choice of professions (lol mining) and your spec (lol spirit vs flamethrowing) and your boot enchant (lol icewalker).

in his defense...those are what he should pick up to max his DPS. you sir are fail.

[Emiex]

8 stats on chest, 2 count em 2 potent monarch topaz (i believe that is the name of the 9 sp 8 crit gem), and unsullied cuffs (with only 23 spellpower chant and not 30 mind you), all subpar gear and gem choices for TtW/fireball. gg. and note, i know 7.7k dps isn't standard for a mage, but it will be the minimal norm once we get ulduar geared. my initial problem was that you said mages should not be topping meters, when by blizzard's defenition, they should. don't make a statement like that when it is clearly not supportable by meters (if i wasn't supposed to be on top, i would never be there).

Regardless of what Blizzard wants mages to do and current ingame mechanics are two completely different things. Like I said before in a perfect situation for every player a mage cannot beat a feral druid, warlock, or a rogue. That doesnt mean they don't it means they shouldn't. So if you are then either you are a great mage, or those other classes are much worse than they should be.

[Emiex]

in his defense...those are what he should pick up to max his DPS. you sir are fail.

Well Mr. Swizzle thank you, but to argue against my current spec, I think combustion is a waste and I love the extra range... Fights like deconstructor where you spread out a lot w/ out flamethrowing dpsin sucks

[Indarys]

in his defense...those are what he should pick up to max his DPS. you sir are fail.

XFD you're both retarded. Hmm, how much DPS do you lose because you were out of range of the boss and had to run 6 yards furthur to him? Probably at least 2 seconds of DPS time. How often do you have to switch targets and move in Uldaur? Every boss pretty much. Yeah, I'm sure all that lost dps time on fights like Razorscale, Thorim, Freya and Mimiron, plus the fact that you have to cramp yourself in with everyone else at 35 yards, causing them to have to move and spread out furthur and lose dps themselves, outweights your whole extra 0.8% crit you get from getting 70 more raid buffed spirit.

Protip: If you move for more than 4 seconds a minute, speed enchant > icewalker. This is basic logic. Oh crap, Hodir is about to flash freeze! I have to run to it. With my Icewalker, it takes me 5 seconds to move out, whereas with run speed it would have taken me 4.5 seconds. Yeah, .5 seconds extra cast time doesn't beat out Icewalker? LOL.

And you thinking mining with the extra stamina is better than tailoring?

You're both terrible.

[Whitcher]

You are talking lieas.

I had Bis gear before ulduar(except the turning tide,damn thing wont drop)

And i am always at about 3.7-4.1 k dps in ulduar10 man,and that's enough to be in top 3 always,but i'm usualy first.

As we had server first on 5 bosses in BT,3 in hyal,3 in TK,2 in SSC you can't say we are a bad guild

Mage dps is fine,it depends on the amount you have to move,but generaly i am never under 3-4

That's it?

[Emiex]

Yeah I picked mining for the stam............ You are a moron. I am mining at the moment because I was bored and was too cheap to re-level enchanting. Minor speed to boots vs extra crit and hit is the most retarded arguement I have ever seen. Assuming your hit capped and only need the crit its still dumb to say minor speed is good. Also range? I agree that extra range is nice, but its not a dps increase.

- Pro Tip #1102 A good mage makes sure he or she is in range of the boss at all times with limited movement to maximize dps.

Next you will argue that rocket boots from engineering is the way to go. Holy crap im glad your not im my guild.

[Indarys]

Yeah I picked mining for the stam............ You are a moron. I am mining at the moment because I was bored and was too cheap to re-level enchanting. Minor speed to boots vs extra crit and hit is the most retarded arguement I have ever seen. Assuming your hit capped and only need the crit its still dumb to say minor speed is good. Also range? I agree that extra range is nice, but its not a dps increase.

- Pro Tip #1102 A good mage makes sure he or she is in range of the boss at all times with limited movement to maximize dps.

Next you will argue that rocket boots from engineering is the way to go. Holy crap im glad your not im my guild.

XFD @ being unable to understand basic logic. Have fun making sure you're in range of the hallway trash in Thorim (oh wait you can't because you have to run to it!). Have fun making sure you're in range of that add freya just spawned (oh wait you can't because you have to run to it!). Being able to stop just half a second earlier to start casting JUST ONCE on a 5 minute boss fight makes up for the shitty less than a percent crit you get from Spirit. And I just EXPLAINED to you why run speed is better. What boss are you fighting in Uldaur that you stand still the whole time? Even ezmode XT has you running at least a bit when you have light bomb or are intercepting adds. How is it hard to understand that getting to stop even half a second earlier is more of a dps boost than the infinitesimally small amount of crit and hit you get? EJ backs me up on it. Read it.

Fail harder please. It's always hilarious to see a couple of mages that fail so hard get in a fight. The blind leading the blind.

[Malice83]

Heard we had this thing called blink.

[Emiex]

The speed increase from minor run speed is so insignificant that there is no way that it would be more beneficial that icewalker. Even for sake of argument it was we are talking DPS differences that are so minimal it doesn't make a difference odds are a player would mess up there rotation, or 5000 other things could happen that lowered your dps. Your examples are horrible especially the Thorim tunnel. There is no time when 1/100 the distance in that tunnel would make a dps difference at all. There is an extreme to min / maxing this may be it, but in my opinion your nuts. Just cause EJ says speed to boots is better than icewalker doesnt mean anything. Its conditional at the same time. If Icewalker caps your hit is speed better then? No.

[Emiex]

Heard we had this thing called blink.

Don't mention that or he will cry about a wasted GCD, and mana loss. You can't argue with this kid.

[Indarys]

Don't mention that or he will cry about a wasted GCD, and mana loss. You can't argue with this kid.

Yep, me and everyone on this forum are wrong.

http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t30655-w...m_3_1_updated/

Grats.

And yes, 1.5 seconds wasted every 30 seconds is more of a dps loss than 12 crit and hit. Sorry.

[Emiex]

Assuming your always moving, and you cant cast when your moving so therefor your entire argument is futile. Grats on be selfowned. Let me know if you want a lesson in mage. Msg me in game on Blackrock-US.

[Axlash54]

I love how this thread went from Min/Maxing to arguements over the best things to use as a mage. My opinion: I like playing a mage. I really only min/max in progression

[PBitt]

Yes I am a huge Min/Maxer. I know it doesn't seem like much but that extra 3 spellpower x10 really can help. In Ulduar I am rarely on top. Our 2 Rogues, 1 Feral druid, and 1 out of 3 Warlocks beat me sometimes. Just depends on the fight and what happened. I am still pulling 5.5-6k on most fights and sometimes yes I do top. But I am happy I guess, in Naxx for like 2 months straight it seemed like I was out dpsing the next closest by 1k dps. I want to see bosses die SO I am happy to see people doing a ton of damage to help out.

This. Classes are never quite balanced from a pve perspective and every patch there is basically a new class that is more capable of reaching the top dps spots than they were in the last patch. Assuming everyone is BiS or close compare yourself more seriously to other people of your class in the raid (hopefully they know what they are doing) rather than people of other classes. If you are all min/maxing and know the class well and you're relatively close to each other then you have nothing to worry about and nothing to bitch about. I'm not going to bitch about class x doing way too much damage in PvE because hey! They're on my side! Do the best you can with what your class is given for the raid because it's about the raid, not about you.

[Mesija]

That's it?

Well tbh i would have done bether,but the fights i did so far(Ignis,XT and razorscale) i had other things to do other then dps(kill adds on ignis,blink to harpoons in razorscale and watch the healboths on XT).

But either way,i admit i make some mistakes but i belive 4k is good enough for heavy moving fights with 10 man raid buffs.

And in any case,mage dps is more then fine,i only have proble outdpsing Spriests and warlocks atm

The botom line min/maxing is crap,if you know your class,the right rotation and have the apropriate gear,you will do fine dps,+-100/200 doesnt mean nothing to me