Build for retri pala with Druid Resto

[Donttouchme]

Hey guys I was thinking the following build + glyphs for my retri when i go with resto druid:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...4&version=9835

Would this be a good build / glyphs or would you change anything to that and what would you change?

[Kawasaki.gdm]

This build is what you would use with any comp anyway. Maybe get Eye for an Eye if you comp with another DPS.

I will just replate the DS glyph, it really doesnt worth, its like 150 more healing with you DS.
Take Salvation Instead.

And im not sure about HoJ glyph also, I would take glyph of Seal of blood/martyr for the mana regen

[Palatinus]

Firstly, im currently running this setup and loving it. At 2250 atm.

Secondly, glyphs it would be better to have salvation incase you get nuked and don't have bubble up. Sob glyph is so much better than HoJ glyph as well, you will need the mana regen when fighting against priests/mages and even palas (with SS).

Thirdly, your spec is good, however i find Fanaticism over-rated now, you would be MUCH better off taking two points out of it and putting them into Blessing of might, Oh and please don't tell me you run with kings (on yourself) >.<. To clarify, Fanacticism is increasing the crit chance of your judgement by 6/12/18. It was good for pvp back when SoB crit for around 7-10k, however now that it only crits for 3-5k (depending on target's resil) it isn't as good as it was. Therefore increasing your attack power (through improved BoM), which increases white/CS/DS/SoB is far better than a 12% increase in crit chance on one attack. Im not saying take 0 points in it, but there are better things you can get, such as improved might in the 0/19/52 build.

[Sartecho]

And yes I use command over SoM

I do the same thing for the same reasons. A lot of people will tell you that you're stupid for using SoC. I've messed around with both quite a bit and SoC definitely has been much more productive for me. Controlled burst = Win

[Paladin885]

I do the same thing for the same reasons. A lot of people will tell you that you're stupid for using SoC. I've messed around with both quite a bit and SoC definitely has been much more productive for me. Controlled burst = Win

yeah I myself played around with both as SoC proc wasnt that awesome in TBC (but SoB's recoil wasnt smart either in pvp) and now its not too shabby. With the Glyph of seal of command its hit chance like doubled it seems.

I use it now when i duel spec over to pvp ret and the results are fun times. Expecially when I come across a pve clothie and I do 9k dmg in 1.5sec when i auto hit directly after a judgement crit with a SoC proc...never get sold XD.


also, eye for an eye + ret aura buff = dagger rogue kills himself while stun locking me lol. (that never gets old either)

[Palatinus]

Here's what I use http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...4&version=9835
And yes I use command over SoM, I find the controlled crits helps me set up the hurt, + im no fan of doing any damage to myself and I find I last a hell of alot longer in pvp useing it, also helps ease the mana stress on my druid healer and because of this we tend to win 75% of all our matches due to useing the out lasting tactics when we face heal teams

Your spec is very weird frankly. You've taking 1/3 in heart of the crusader which is 2% crit, you've not even taken sanctified wrath...this is the problem. When you face healer teams, you won't kill them without it....Most of the times that we get a kill, and i mean a kill on a healer (which we can do if timed right!) is by using AW with sanctified wrath. I don't think you understand how good it is? Avoids 50% damage migration? Try dueling a lock without wings, then pop it and see how much damage you do....and im not taking about the 20% either. Also does anyone know if it bypasses resilience as well, i.e. the crit damage reduction not the crit chance. What about when facing priests or mages, it bypasses their shields, not to mention pain suppression.
Secondly, you've got Righteous vengeance....i laugh when i play ret palas with that, they'll turn to me, apply the dot and then repent me only to have it break straight away, so why take it? It doesn't even do amazing damage in pve anymore.

And the people here who are using SoC, i don't need to tell you its stupid, have you looked at the maths?

Controlled burst = Win

Yes, yes it is. How do you control your burst with soc 45% chance? SoC hits for 200 damage more than my SoB proc which has 100% chance compared to 45% chance. Go try a crusader strike up with SoB, if you do it right, you'll do a white hit+sob, crusader+sob. SoC has a 1 second internal cooldown, so even if you were to be LUCKY not CONTROLLED, you still couldn't do it, and this makes a difference when you Divine storm 2 people and SoC procs on the wrong target, again Controlled?. And judgements? SoC judgement does on average 2k more damage for me, i hardly think that is worth it when SoB procs more than makes up for it. Although i expect you'll tell me the controlled part is when you stun them for 100% to crit, but then crusader strike+sob hits better than that. I can do around 30-50% of someones hp in a crusader strike+white hit+2xsob. Recoil damage, yes this is a problem, but it hits me for 140 on average, and with the glyph returning about 15 mana, considering the 'buff' to sacred shield you hardly notice the recoil at all, and with druid hots rolling on you.....

[Sartecho]

Secondly, you've got Righteous vengeance....i laugh when i play ret palas with that, they'll turn to me, apply the dot and then repent me only to have it break straight away, so why take it? It doesn't even do amazing damage in pve anymore.

Agreed. The last raid that I have a WWS for, my RV was only 4% of my damage, and that's in a raid setting where you have a good chance of keeping it up most of the time. I don't worry about it breaking Repentence or anything, but it's just not a worthwhile place for me to put those three points.

SoC has a 1 second internal cooldown, so even if you were to be LUCKY not CONTROLLED, you still couldn't do it, and this makes a difference when you Divine storm 2 people and SoC procs on the wrong target, again Controlled?.

Yes, I look at math. I've also put in a lot of matches with both Command and Martyr. I'm not a gladiator or anything, but I did finish last season above 2150 and I've been back at or above 2100 this season so far. Command works and it works well. It's not about the seal, as you imply, it's about the judgment. My personal favorite thing to do? I picked up the Wrathstone from Ulduar which gives over 850 AP on use for 20 seconds and used a macro to tie that into my stun. Work a healer down about halfway. Stun, wings, judge, Crusader Strike, Hammer of Wrath, have a nice day. Against high resilience targets, I'm getting judgments that are close to 6k. Being able to do that at will against a stunned target is full of win.

That exact combo is the sort of thing that unfortunately has people yelling "OMG, WTF? Nerf pallies!!!1" I haven't found another great way of burying people though. My only other options are absurdly well timed CC chains with my healer (resto shaman). Those CC chains are a real bitch to pull off on a consistent basis against really smart players. Without the CC chain and without a really rockin' burst from lining up all of my cooldowns, I'm left with just really heavy pressure. Yes, Martyr does more damage overall, that's why I use it in raids over Command. What good is that pressure without a healing debuff though? I push people down, they heal it right back up with one holy shock or riptide or w/e. My opponent almost always has a healing debuff. So, we're both doing heavy damage, and my healer is working twice as hard. Guess who wins. Rather than try to win by applying more pressure over time, I line up my cooldowns and shove them all down the opponent's throat at once. They die, I profit.

Also, for what it's worth, almost every time I go up against another ret pallie in a healer/ret set-up, that pallie is running Martyr, not Command. I don't lose very many of those matches. My Command > Their Martyr

[Palatinus]

The seal does make a huge difference, as you said its more damage over time. The thing that gets me though is that a 6k judgement isn't really high considering SoB can do around 3-4k and i've see 5k with wings+sanctified wrath. I just feel that 6k judgement doesn't justify losing 2-4k that would of got from the 100% proc of sob. With the new sacred shield, you hardly notice the recoil, and with druids hots, which is what the thread is about >.> might be different with other healers, its not really much of a problem.
One way that i can kill a healer, even if hes full health and mana, just relies on his trinket being off cooldown >.<. But we cyclone the dps, and then i can stun the healer, Crusader, DS, Judge with hits in there. I'd of had wings up so hes at least 50%, i can then repent them, wait for CS/DS/Judge to come off CD and then use arcane torrent just before i go for the crusader/ds/judge. Nothing survives that, it just depends on trinkets. I take it by 'martyr' your alliance :S so no arcane torrent, which is amazing for paladins as our only silence , im sure it would be different for me if i didn't have arcane torrent.

[Sartecho]

so no arcane torrent, which is amazing for paladins as our only silence , im sure it would be different for me if i didn't have arcane torrent.

OMFG I hated that torrent when I ran S4 as holy. Made me want to throw my computer out the window. And Kalgan posted that Perception is the only racial that he's ever seen win an arena match. LOL at that.

I'll never argue that Martyr/Blood doesn't work. Obviously it works fine or it wouldn't have so many devoted (sometimes blindly so) followers. What bothers me is that so many people imply that you're stupid if you run Command. Command works too and very well, thank you. I ran with a druid before I switched to a shaman. The hots do help with any recoil damage, though I still found that every once in a while I'd damage myself at exactly the wrong time. Also, yes, you can get high judgments still with your seal, but mine is a guaranteed thing. I like that. Also, it allows me to drop the 3 points in Fanaticism and use them elsewhere. In the end I suspect it's one of those things that comes down to playing style. Depending on how you play, you'll probably find one that works better for you.

[Palatinus]

My spec is well thought out for the way I play, as a paladin I play more defensive I like to outlast then burst when ready, so looking at all my talents you will see I took just about everything that will give me the highest lifespand (Imp Shields/Imp RF) with max triggered burst and passive counter damage(e4e/ret aura)for when im taking damage, and it works well for me.
I tryed Som and tho its nice for pve I don't like it in pvp one bit, and not having SW Yes I know its nice to have but in most cases if a targets below 20% health there already dead and I really don't use Wings that much, only to set up burst combos at 30% health I might use wings, tho the shield bypassing effects of SW are sweet I learned to live without it in order to take other talents that help me live longer like DG in the prot tree.

I learned to understand the paladin class over the last 4 1/2 years and tho we have the burst to drop fools we are not a pure damage dealing class, we are a outlasting/support class with high burst capabilities and knowing that makes me embarrass 75% the rets I come across in World/Bg and Arena pvp.

Nothing I love more then to come across a ret paladins using Som on me only to take off 50% of there health in one stun and having them hack away there life with recoil from there own attacks stacked with my ret aura and e4e.

The thing you talked about taking defensive abilities, i never said give thoses up??? I said drop the PVE talents, that aren't good in pve anyway....Righteous vengeance breaks your repent, and does hardly any damage...why would you want it over sanctified wrath or more AP from might?

Its very easy to keep DG and all the defensive abilities you listed WITH offensive as well...ever checked the top ret palas that go 0/19/52? Its not much to do with play style here, unless your style is dotting things from your crits?

And the recoil is really not as big as everyones making it out to be, i agree, if you like the 'controlled' burst when you stun your target thats fine, but saying you don't use sob because of the recoil is silly. The main difference in 3.1, is that people liked the high burst damage from judgements, people that want to keep that style have gone for command. People who adapted have stayed with SoB and crusader strike has replaced the massive judgement burst. Either way is fine, but its not recoil....

Again, you haven't taken anything thats more defensive in your build from the 0/19/52, you've just taken worse offensive talents...which doesn't make you more defensive >.<

[Phantomebb]

This is the spec i would run with all healers except for a holy pally. This spec is pretty much maximized damage and uses martyr.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=9835#