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  1. #181

    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Just wanted to say a big thank you for the thread and to all the contributions that followed the initial posts... main tanking on Earthen Ring at the moment for my guild and steadily working through Ulduar, and all ill say is hot damn the advice here certainly upped my game! I love my Druid to bits and this just made it that little bit more pleasurable to play.


  2. #182
    Herald of the Titans arel00's Avatar
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    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    And this kind of things is precisely what makes the guide worth writing. Have fun on your druid
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  3. #183

    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quote Originally Posted by rated
    How many bear's here use imrproved mangle for tanking ? Or who here doesnt ?

    Currently I'm spec'd into it, but im considering moving points around to get natural & master shapeshifting.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...isHordeGanized
    (Note: my off-spec is feralcat dps so i have no interest in picking up a talent mainly for cat form)

    Would this be an improvement or just a matter of preference ?
    I wouldn't push for the pure threat of master shapeshifter unless you're definitely main tank. If it didn't need the 3 point sink past natural shapeshifter then yes. Feral agression conversely is a pure mitigation talent for a bear, much harder to quantify however when you have healers on you constantly anyway.

    I personally see one of our major strengths in our offtank ability to dps and tank to a reasonable extent without overgimping gear the way other tank classes are forced to. 5 points I could put in either of these places I instead put into shreding attacks and king of the jungle for cat utility.
    King of the jungle in particular creates dps opportunity with it's burst energy return. Even between tank taunt tradeoffs, thorim for example you can go cat, 1 point savage roar, 5 point rip before you're needed to be a bear again, with a couple crits dont even lose lacerate stack. Likewise there's a lot of other fights where there's adds only through parts of a fight and a druid can do the tank job in partial dps gear switching to cat while not sacrificing the dps potential carrying a pure tank geared prot class for only parts of some fights.

    A "pure" cat spec can't tank, a tank spec however has wiggle room to pick up dps utility. A druid "tank" spec can still put out 5K+ dps. Glyphs are cheap, i carry stacks of each to tailor to the style of fight and mix my tank and dps gear(mostly HP scale) to the needs of each fight.

  4. #184
    Herald of the Titans arel00's Avatar
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    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quote Originally Posted by axxey
    I wouldn't push for the pure threat of master shapeshifter unless you're definitely main tank. If it didn't need the 3 point sink past natural shapeshifter then yes. Feral agression conversely is a pure mitigation talent for a bear, much harder to quantify however when you have healers on you constantly anyway.

    I personally see one of our major strengths in our offtank ability to dps and tank to a reasonable extent without overgimping gear the way other tank classes are forced to. 5 points I could put in either of these places I instead put into shreding attacks and king of the jungle for cat utility.
    King of the jungle in particular creates dps opportunity with it's burst energy return. Even between tank taunt tradeoffs, thorim for example you can go cat, 1 point savage roar, 5 point rip before you're needed to be a bear again, with a couple crits dont even lose lacerate stack. Likewise there's a lot of other fights where there's adds only through parts of a fight and a druid can do the tank job in partial dps gear switching to cat while not sacrificing the dps potential carrying a pure tank geared prot class for only parts of some fights.

    A "pure" cat spec can't tank, a tank spec however has wiggle room to pick up dps utility. A druid "tank" spec can still put out 5K+ dps. Glyphs are cheap, i carry stacks of each to tailor to the style of fight and mix my tank and dps gear(mostly HP scale) to the needs of each fight.
    All true, but this is Bear thread. If I have to start accounting for hybrid builds when answering we'd never end.
    Please let's keep is to purely tank specs and roles
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  5. #185

    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quote Originally Posted by arel00
    All true, but this is Bear thread. If I have to start accounting for hybrid builds when answering we'd never end.
    Please let's keep is to purely tank specs and roles
    I don't see it saying "main tank" thread, I see it Bear thread.
    If you're not main tank and you're not making use of being a druid in half the fights then you're a failure and should go reroll a useless pure tank class that can't do other jobs at all in a fight.

    A druid tank "role" isn't gimp gear restricted like other tank classes.

    You can jump on your "we're as good Main tanking as other classes" bandwagon but other tank classes just aren't as good as us at everything else.

  6. #186

    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Thanks for very nice and easy guide to pick up as druid tank. Been tanking couple of weeks now only 5men hc runs. Here is my stats:

    unbuffed with Motw

    27,4k stamina 28k
    35.95 dodge 36,87
    24,9k armor 26k
    33,02 crit 33,68
    26 expertise
    126 hit

    mongoose enhcant on Staff of Trickery -when mongoose proc I get 39.03 dodge 35,24 crit
    Idol of Terror - when that trinket proc 38.06 dodge 34.53 crit
    When both proc 40,16 dodge 36.08 crit


    Today I meet a guy that claim that my hp is to low,,, didnt asking me for any other stats he just claim that my hp was to low I just told him my hp is fine for 5 men hc runs. He claim I should at least have 30k+ before I enter hc, anyway it was my party and we did vh hc everything went nice and smooth.

    afterwards I wisper him and say my hp is fine and it is not all about hp for 5men hc runs he tells me to speak with a guy call "Thempc" turn out that was his alt ego he logged in his main or what ever and wipser me this:

    "hello is this the noob tank that thinks he know anything about tanking"

    So I ask him what should the stats be according to him pre raid, only answer I get is that I am either a noob, nab, crap geard, lol for ppl that need to party with me yes you name it. The only thing he say is that you need at least 30 -33k+ hp. After long talk with him I at last got the numbers that he think you should have for pre raid.

    This is what you need to enter 5men hc according to him unbuffed:

    40dodge
    33k+hp
    crit xx
    hit xx
    expertise xx

    Is this guy out of his mind or is it me that read this beartanking guide wrong? I only do hc run atm I dont wont to gimp my self with hp for that I think it is fine instead I try to get up my dodge with agility for more stable reducing damage.

  7. #187
    Miss Doctor Lady Bear Sunshine's Avatar
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    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quote Originally Posted by yadomaru
    Is this guy out of his mind or is it me that read this beartanking guide wrong? I only do hc run atm I dont wont to gimp my self with hp for that I think it is fine instead I try to get up my dodge with agility for more stable reducing damage.
    Your stats look just fine for heroics. People who expect 30k+ from heroic tanks are either spoiled by overgeared (naxx / uld) tanks or are used to seeing druids stack pure stam gems in the polar set to reach that.

    The true test is whether you can do it. Find a good healer, and you're fine.

  8. #188

    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    To give u a general idea:

    armor: 28k
    HP: 33.3k
    Dodge: 39.11
    crit: 36%

    all unbuffed

    I tank Ulduar10 keepers and Vezax atm, and ulduar25 first 7 bosses. kk ty
    (E) .· ` ' / ·. (F)
    Ur Tears Fuel Me.
    QQ More Please

  9. #189
    Herald of the Titans arel00's Avatar
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    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quote Originally Posted by axxey
    I don't see it saying "main tank" thread, I see it Bear thread.
    If you're not main tank and you're not making use of being a druid in half the fights then you're a failure and should go reroll a useless pure tank class that can't do other jobs at all in a fight.

    A druid tank "role" isn't gimp gear restricted like other tank classes.

    You can jump on your "we're as good Main tanking as other classes" bandwagon but other tank classes just aren't as good as us at everything else.
    First: try to keep it on a polite tone. I was explaining while this thread is focusing on a tank PoV, you jumping in and calling "failure and go reroll" is simply rude.
    Second: if you would take the shortest look at the guide, you'd know that this is all about tanking. This is meant to be a guide for people that need advice on tanking, often to become a Main Tank. I trust people's intelligence enough to be sure that, if they realize they need a hybrid build, they can make decision for themselves. Maybe you should do the same. Again, hybrid builds are beyond the scope of this thread.
    Last bu not least, Dual-Spec is a Live game feature. Personally I'm running with a Tank build and a DPS build, both feral. I picked this to maximise the performance whatever tole I have to pick. In the fights that require an offtank, usually you don't spend your time shifting from Cat to Bear over and over. I'm thinking about Razorscale, Ignis (if you tank adds), Kologarn, Auriaya, Thorim, Hodir, Freya and Yogg-Saron. A load of fights where constant Bear Form is almost essential. Other fights allow you to offtank silly things in a DPS build, again no need for hybridism - I'm thinking about XT bots here. I know a whole lot of people that run with 2 feral builds.

    In short: don't go beyond the scope of this thread. Trust people's intelligence and choices. I'm not jumping on any MT-wagon. But if we were to take everything into account, we would have merged the Bear and Cat thread into one, probably creating a mess.

    Now. Yadomaru.

    Quote Originally Posted by yadomaru
    Thanks for very nice and easy guide to pick up as druid tank. Been tanking couple of weeks now only 5men hc runs. Here is my stats:

    unbuffed with Motw

    27,4k stamina 28k
    35.95 dodge 36,87
    24,9k armor 26k
    33,02 crit 33,68
    26 expertise
    126 hit

    mongoose enhcant on Staff of Trickery -when mongoose proc I get 39.03 dodge 35,24 crit
    Idol of Terror - when that trinket proc 38.06 dodge 34.53 crit
    When both proc 40,16 dodge 36.08 crit


    Today I meet a guy that claim that my hp is to low,,, didnt asking me for any other stats he just claim that my hp was to low I just told him my hp is fine for 5 men hc runs. He claim I should at least have 30k+ before I enter hc, anyway it was my party and we did vh hc everything went nice and smooth.

    afterwards I wisper him and say my hp is fine and it is not all about hp for 5men hc runs he tells me to speak with a guy call "Thempc" turn out that was his alt ego he logged in his main or what ever and wipser me this:

    "hello is this the noob tank that thinks he know anything about tanking"

    So I ask him what should the stats be according to him pre raid, only answer I get is that I am either a noob, nab, crap geard, lol for ppl that need to party with me yes you name it. The only thing he say is that you need at least 30 -33k+ hp. After long talk with him I at last got the numbers that he think you should have for pre raid.

    This is what you need to enter 5men hc according to him unbuffed:

    40dodge
    33k+hp
    crit xx
    hit xx
    expertise xx

    Is this guy out of his mind or is it me that read this beartanking guide wrong? I only do hc run atm I dont wont to gimp my self with hp for that I think it is fine instead I try to get up my dodge with agility for more stable reducing damage.
    Your stats are fine for heroics, for OS10/25 if you run with no drakes, and for Naxx10. Whoever tells you to get over 30k hp and 40% dodge to tank a heroic is a spoiled brat. Simply ignore him, those that run with you will know you're a good tank, and that's what counts.
    Look at the beginning of the thread, the stats I mentioned at the end of my post is what I started with myself. I had less hp and less dodge than you, we did everything fine
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  10. #190

    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quote Originally Posted by arel00
    Last bu not least, Dual-Spec is a Live game feature. Personally I'm running with a Tank build and a DPS build, both feral. I picked this to maximise the performance whatever tole I have to pick. In the fights that require an offtank, usually you don't spend your time shifting from Cat to Bear over and over. I'm thinking about Razorscale, Ignis (if you tank adds), Kologarn, Auriaya, Thorim, Hodir, Freya and Yogg-Saron. A load of fights where constant Bear Form is almost essential. Other fights allow you to offtank silly things in a DPS build, again no need for hybridism - I'm thinking about XT bots here. I know a whole lot of people that run with 2 feral builds.
    In the examples given, Hodir is a main tank only fight and all of the others except for Ignis I offtank 25man and spend a significant part in cat form. With our at times weak dps we're still sometimes pushing timers on some of our hard modes and every bit you can eek out of your character counts.

    You yourself gave 4 different possible tank builds, showing the flexibility of talents around our core bear tank talents, I advocate spending the 5 you swap around in shreding attacks and king of the jungle rather than Feral agression(pure mitigation imp demo roar) or master shapeshifter(pure threat).

  11. #191
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    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quote Originally Posted by yadomaru
    Thanks for very nice and easy guide to pick up as druid tank. Been tanking couple of weeks now only 5men hc runs. Here is my stats:

    unbuffed with Motw

    27,4k stamina 28k
    35.95 dodge 36,87
    24,9k armor 26k
    33,02 crit 33,68
    26 expertise
    126 hit

    mongoose enhcant on Staff of Trickery -when mongoose proc I get 39.03 dodge 35,24 crit
    Idol of Terror - when that trinket proc 38.06 dodge 34.53 crit
    When both proc 40,16 dodge 36.08 crit


    Today I meet a guy that claim that my hp is to low,,, didnt asking me for any other stats he just claim that my hp was to low I just told him my hp is fine for 5 men hc runs. He claim I should at least have 30k+ before I enter hc, anyway it was my party and we did vh hc everything went nice and smooth.

    afterwards I wisper him and say my hp is fine and it is not all about hp for 5men hc runs he tells me to speak with a guy call "Thempc" turn out that was his alt ego he logged in his main or what ever and wipser me this:

    "hello is this the noob tank that thinks he know anything about tanking"

    So I ask him what should the stats be according to him pre raid, only answer I get is that I am either a noob, nab, crap geard, lol for ppl that need to party with me yes you name it. The only thing he say is that you need at least 30 -33k+ hp. After long talk with him I at last got the numbers that he think you should have for pre raid.

    This is what you need to enter 5men hc according to him unbuffed:

    40dodge
    33k+hp
    crit xx
    hit xx
    expertise xx

    Is this guy out of his mind or is it me that read this beartanking guide wrong? I only do hc run atm I dont wont to gimp my self with hp for that I think it is fine instead I try to get up my dodge with agility for more stable reducing damage.
    The kid talking smack to you either has no clue what hes talking about or hes just arrogant and thinks hes the shit cause he has some good gear.

    your stats are fine for running 5mans, you proved it by running through vh. ive tanked all of heroics with less hp/armor/dodge than you just fine.

  12. #192

    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Thank for great guide.
    Thats my bear
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...BA%D0%B8%D0%BD

    I have: buffed
    48% dodge
    32k armor
    46k health

    but i think, i have small tps, how i can enlarging my tps? without big change in stats, don't touching expertise & hit cap. I changing build in future: Infected Wounds -> Improved Mangle. Please correct me, where i'm wrong?

    P.S. Sorry for bad English :P

  13. #193
    Pit Lord Alski's Avatar
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    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Zork

    but i think, i have small tps, how i can enlarging my tps?
    The easiest way for you to do that would be getting a better weapon

  14. #194
    Miss Doctor Lady Bear Sunshine's Avatar
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    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Zork
    I have: buffed
    48% dodge
    32k armor
    46k health

    but i think, i have small tps, how i can enlarging my tps?
    It looks like you have a lot of health, including many 24/41 stam gems.  You might consider replacing some of these with agi or agi/stam, as the agi will help both dodge and threat.  For the few fights where you need absolutely maximized stam, you can keep a secondary gear set (or vice versa, for threat-intensive fights).

  15. #195

    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    I've got a question, does anyone has a good addon for keeping track on the multiple bleeds (lacerate/mangle/etc..), maby even on multiple mobs at the same time?

    tnx in advance,

    Mike
    Bios: http://www.mmo-champion.com/character-bios/cailean/

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  16. #196

    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    I personally use DroodFocus to track my buffs and debuffs. Decent customization and works for both Cat and Bear. Won't work on multiple targets though, only on the one you have selected as your target.

  17. #197
    Herald of the Titans arel00's Avatar
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    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quartz can track your debuffs on a mob too, but I don't think it can do it with multiple mobs. You may want to take a look at the Cat addons tho, they track all the debuffs and often work for Bears too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  18. #198
    Miss Doctor Lady Bear Sunshine's Avatar
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    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    I'm still a fan of DebuffFilter (as I've mentioned before in other threads). It's not exclusive to cat or bear, and it doesn't come with any of those buffs/debuffs built in, but it's worth putting them in manually. It can track *any* debuff or buff on player, target, or focus. This makes it great for tanking -- need to know when Crush Armor expires and how many stacks you have? Add it to the list, and it shows up only when it's relevant (only when you have the debuff). Because it's so configurable, it's great at tracking fight-specific information.

  19. #199

    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Leafre
    I will help you out with my experience on T7 BiS compilation. The most common setup is to use 4 piece of T7 and one non-set item. For me the best possible idea was a non-set helm to get, because I'm an expertise whore

    Helm: Hood of the Exodus - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40329 (Gothik HC)
    Neck: Heritage - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40069 (Naxx HC) However Kel'thuzad's necklace is awesome too, I like the hit rating on Heritage
    Shoulder: T7.5 shoulder
    Back: Cloak of the Shadowed Sun - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40252 (Naxx HC)
    Chest: T7.5 chest
    Wrist: Thrusting Bands - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40186 (Noth HC)
    Gloves: T7.5
    Waist: Sharp-Barbed Leather Belt - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37194 (UK HC)
    Legs: T7.5
    Feet: Footwraps of Vile Deceit - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40243 (Loatheb HC)
    Ring1: Gatekeeper - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40370 (Sapphiron HC)
    Ring2: Signet of Impregnable Fortress - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40718 (HC Naxx badge)
    Trinket 1: Defender's Code - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40257 (Naxx HC)
    Trinket 2: I personally use the JC one, Monarch Crab - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44063

    As it was mentioned before, if you can afford the Darkmoon Card, it's the best possible choice for a druid. I would use it instead of the Defender's Code.

    Weapon: Origin of Nightmares - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40280 (Grobbulus HC)

    However, the Undeath Carrier has crit on it, I think it's not worth to trade away the 700ish armor for a little bit of more chance on SD.

    Idol: still lvl70
    i agree about the weapon. since the armor multiplier doesnt apply anymore on weapons, the origin of nightmares and undeath carrier are of the same quality for tanking. 50+ crit chance (undeath carrier) is better for threat and savage defense and 700 armor (origin of nightmares) is really not a big deal in bear form.

  20. #200

    Re: Feral Druids - the Bear guide

    Quote Originally Posted by arel00
    RAWR model T8-level 25men Best-In-Slot list (take it as it comes, this will be updated and changed as new loot and more testing is done):

    Head: Garona's Guise (Yogg-Saron HC)
    Neck: Mark of the Unyelding (Kologarn normal)
    Shoulders: Conqueror's Nightsong Shoulderpads
    Back: Drape of the Faceless General (General Vezax normal - hard mode)
    Chest: Conqueror's Nightsong Rainments
    Bracers: Mechanist's Bindings (Flame Leviathan HC)
    Gloves: Conqueror's Nightsong Handgrips
    Belt: Soul Devouring Clinch (Yogg-Saron normal - hard mode)
    Legs: Conqueror's Nightsong Leggings
    Feet: Footpads of Silence (crafted)
    Ring1: The Leviathan's Coil (Flame Leviathan HC)
    Ring2: Loop of the Agile (Iron Council normal - hard mode)
    Trinket1: Darkmoon Card: Greatness (crafted/quest)
    Trinket2: Heart of Iron (Ignis HC)

    Weapon: Twisted Visage (XT-002 HC)

    Idol: Idol of the Corruptor (General Vezax HC)
    first of all, a very good post indeed, thanks for the effort.

    regarding the T8 25man level feral tanking gear, i would put Belt of the Twilight Assassin (from emblems) or Death-warmed Belt in BiS

    And for the tanking weapon, i think Dark Edge of Depravity is definitely the BiS for feral tanking instead of Twisted Visage (XT-002 HC)

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