Holy paladin the only healer without dmg spells?

[Ninjaduckiee]

judge them with light or something and thats some dmg, and thers something called seal dmg and good old trusty melee dmg.

[Whitcher]

Holy shock
Judgement of X
Exorcism
Consecration
ShoR works as well as holy.

Thats just fine to kill mobs, granted, you won't be as fast as others, true, but it just just fine on its own, and you can aoe grind like a mofo.

This. Stop failing please.

[Jonnyr]

First thing that popped up in my mind was this old post of paladins:P

[shockpally]

my argument was never about that, it was that how can you call dual spec is stupid because you can't switch in combat when you can change ahead of time?

Because people do actually go into combat as healers. Once you use all your CD's all a team has to do is CC you while they kill your team and then a Holy paladin is Done. They have no means to fight back.


And to Downshake who mentioned bubble, You're an idiot. It's dispellable by 2 classes now and you do half damage while it is up. Holy shock and Consecrate do dismal damage and Hammer of Wrath is only usable on targets bellow a certain health percentage and does crap damage for Holy paladin since it is modified by SP and AP just like judgments.

[Omgdrood]

ok, edit: I don't like other healers in PvP having their spell power based spells all with them, they can heal they can kill, while paladin is pure heal in this case

You're dumb, I kill people in arenas all the time on my holy pally, my partner beats up the healer to the point where he's struggling to live and has to heal himself or his partner, 4-5K per shock and 1500 judge + consecrate.

[Borigrad]

the the guy who said plate armor made a difference for a pally leave the topic now.
to the people wanting more dps leave the topic now.
to the people who gotten kills in pvp with their healadin in pvp leave the topic now. goodbye.

this thread became a joke long ago, you want more damage go shockadin. you know why i honestly hate you all right now. cause half of the posters have probably never played a paladin. the others clearly play their classes badly. i am not perfect, far from it, but i play with common sense. SHOCK DOES 4K EASY, judgement does 2k easy, consecration does 2k, hammer of justice, rinse and repeat.

here's a macro i use it's nice i win button

/use avenging wrath
/use 13
/use 14
/use divine favor
/use divine illumination
/castsequence, holy shock, judgement of (name), hammer of justice

boom you win

[Yvaelle]

Other healers are better at killing because they're also way better at dying. You are unkillable, and therefore not quite as good at putting out the dps. It's called a tradeoff, if you could pull 1500dps smite spamming in arenas the top 2's team would be Holy / Holy, the top 3's team would be Holy / Holy / Holy, and the top 5's team would be Holy / Holy / Holy / Holy / Holy. You can't lose if you can't be killed, and that's what Holy paladins are.

Let me give you an example, I'm the top shadowpriest on my server (pve and pvp), I dueled our guild holy paladin in his full 1k+ resil gear (he's been like 2400+ the last like 4 seasons). At 5kdps in full raid buffs I couldn't outdps his heals (I was in my full pve gear, he didn't bother trying to fight back). The only way the duel ended was when he started screwing around and I Psy Screamed / Silenced / Arcane Torrent'd him after he had wasted his trinket on a previous fear. Easily a 10 minute duel with me getting absolutely nowhere until he pretty much stopped really trying and I got some lucky crits. (Since then, shadow has gained Psy horror for 3s horror effect, and lost damage while feared for -9s of fear time).

[shockpally]

here's a macro i use it's nice i win button

/use avenging wrath
/use 13
/use 14
/use divine favor
/use divine illumination
/castsequence, holy shock, judgement of (name), hammer of justice

boom you win

Boom GCD > you.

Leave now.

[shockpally]

Other healers are better at killing because they're also way better at dying. You are unkillable, and therefore not quite as good at putting out the dps. It's called a tradeoff, if you could pull 1500dps smite spamming in arenas the top 2's team would be Holy / Holy, the top 3's team would be Holy / Holy / Holy, and the top 5's team would be Holy / Holy / Holy / Holy / Holy. You can't lose if you can't be killed, and that's what Holy paladins are.

Let me give you an example, I'm the top shadowpriest on my server (pve and pvp), I dueled our guild holy paladin in his full 1k+ resil gear (he's been like 2400+ the last like 4 seasons). At 5kdps in full raid buffs I couldn't outdps his heals (I was in my full pve gear, he didn't bother trying to fight back). The only way the duel ended was when he started screwing around and I Psy Screamed / Silenced / Arcane Torrent'd him after he had wasted his trinket on a previous fear. Easily a 10 minute duel with me getting absolutely nowhere until he pretty much stopped really trying and I got some lucky crits. (Since then, shadow has gained Psy horror for 3s horror effect, and lost damage while feared for -9s of fear time).

Thank you for describing how good Holy paladin are at being punching bags. If your friend would have tried to fight back with his one and only good damage spell (Holy shock) or you would have mana burned him things would have gone differently IMO.

[Lynarii]

Actually he has somewhat of a point Shockpally. The overall damage done by a holy paladin doesn't have to be great in PvP for it to still be a significant amount of burst damage. Timed right, a holy paladin /can/ drop a fairly nice burst on someone who isn't expecting it. It's not going to win you a 1v1 fight, but when I'm fighting against a holy paladin in arenas (as a resto druid) I have to be aware that the healer can spike me to dead if I let myself get low as effectively as a warrior execute. I may take more damage overall from some of the other healers I fight against, but small damage over time is nothing to me with my hots up. It's unexpected spikes that kill people, and a good holy paladin is my least favorite healer to fight against. (With the possible exception of a prot pally in healing gear, but I think most people find that a bit obnoxious to deal with)

[shockpally]

Actually he has somewhat of a point Shockpally. The overall damage done by a holy paladin doesn't have to be great in PvP for it to still be a significant amount of burst damage. Timed right, a holy paladin /can/ drop a fairly nice burst on someone who isn't expecting it. It's not going to win you a 1v1 fight, but when I'm fighting against a holy paladin in arenas (as a resto druid) I have to be aware that the healer can spike me to dead if I let myself get low as effectively as a warrior execute. I may take more damage overall from some of the other healers I fight against, but small damage over time is nothing to me with my hots up. It's unexpected spikes that kill people, and a good holy paladin is my least favorite healer to fight against. (With the possible exception of a prot pally in healing gear, but I think most people find that a bit obnoxious to deal with)

That is just it. Any and all Holy paladin offensive ability relies on other peoples help in PVP there is no actual deterrent to attacking them. When they are getting attacked there is NO WAY they can use Holy shock offensively and you can just step out ouf consecrate and Judgments are laughable.

Exorcism would have helped but they got rid of that in PVP. Even with Exo's 1.5-2k damage and Holy shock on dummies i am only able to pull 1k damage in my PVE gear. Not much of an offense if i have to heal myself with my main attack spell is it.

[Joarrak]

Isn't it kind of obvious? It has nothing to do with their role or blizz wanting them to make paladins at a disadvantage. If you look at all of the other healing classes, they have a ranged caster dps spec (balance druids, shadow priests, elemental shamans), and these are all relating to lore and their role. Paladins are not dps casters in lore and have no caster baseline dps spell because their only dps spec is a melee one, so almost all of their damaging attacks and spells are melee related. It's just the way it turned out, I doubt that blizzard would even have thought that this would be an issue in the original version of the game. And just to make you feel better, grinding mobs as a resto druid/resto shaman/holy or disc priest is really not all that great, there isn't much to be jealous of.

[shockpally]

Isn't it kind of obvious? It has nothing to do with their role or blizz wanting them to make paladins at a disadvantage. If you look at all of the other healing classes, they have a ranged caster dps spec (balance druids, shadow priests, elemental shamans), and these are all relating to lore and their role. Paladins are not dps casters in lore and have no caster baseline dps spell because their only dps spec is a melee one, so almost all of their damaging attacks and spells are melee related. It's just the way it turned out, I doubt that blizzard would even have thought that this would be an issue in the original version of the game. And just to make you feel better, grinding mobs as a resto druid/resto shaman/holy or disc priest is really not all that great, there isn't much to be jealous of.

Part of the Flaw of Holy paladin is that they did not give them a clear direction. They didnt give them the tools to go 100% into being a caster or a Melee damage spec. Even most of a paladins attacks are modified by AP and SP.

There is no question about which route Prot and Ret take yet they get improved healing talents to augment spells they should only be using when they cant bandage or eat.

Holy has some spells for damage yet most of them are modified by Attack power. They have no use for a weapon except for how much SP or stats it has on it. No weapon attacks and no spamable attack spell.

They are incomplete and blizzard shows no sign of even caring. They dont even care about the new Prot Arena healing spec but they sure were serious about Paladin going deeper into Ret to be effective healers and have some utility.

[Shirra]

I was able to solo Second Chances and the quest after (Both 5 man quests) without even going under 80% mana nor HP.

Don't complain. Holy is fine.

[Copain]

Because people do actually go into combat as healers. Once you use all your CD's all a team has to do is CC you while they kill your team and then a Holy paladin is Done. They have no means to fight back.


And to Downshake who mentioned bubble, You're an idiot. It's dispellable by 2 classes now and you do half damage while it is up. Holy shock and Consecrate do dismal damage and Hammer of Wrath is only usable on targets bellow a certain health percentage and does crap damage for Holy paladin since it is modified by SP and AP just like judgments.

This is going in circles, I'm again brought back to the question as to why you are attacking as a healer, if your team mates are getting killed, More DPS won't help you.

Damage=\= healing ._.;

the the guy who said plate armor made a difference for a pally leave the topic now.

Oh-- If only you hadn't said this. I said before, I'm a Tank, more than any Healer or DPS, I know how important Armor is. I know that if a Pally wearing cloth and a Pally wearing Plate went at it, the guy wearting Plate has more of a chance (Well unless clothie boy likes to dance and run, but I assume you get my point).

Part of the Flaw of Holy paladin is that they did not give them a clear direction. They didnt give them the tools to go 100% into being a caster or a Melee damage spec. Even most of a paladins attacks are modified by AP and SP.

There is no question about which route Prot and Ret take yet they get improved healing talents to augment spells they should only be using when they cant bandage or eat.

Holy has some spells for damage yet most of them are modified by Attack power. They have no use for a weapon except for how much SP or stats it has on it. No weapon attacks and no spamable attack spell.

They are incomplete and blizzard shows no sign of even caring. They dont even care about the new Prot Arena healing spec but they sure were serious about Paladin going deeper into Ret to be effective healers and have some utility.

FFFFFFFF I DON'T GET THIS WHY DO HEALERS NEED TO HIT HARDER? GO DPS IF YOU WANT TO ATTACK!


This makes abasolutly no sense! Whydo we hav talents at all if you should be able to do whatever as whatever?! Why can't a Ret/healer Pally Tank? Why can't a Ret Pally be the Main healer/tank? Why can't a Tank do the best DPS/Heals?

Stop Bullshitting yourself Holy Pallies, you don't need more Attacks in PVE by far, Dual spec if you need faster.

If you have PVP issues with ATTACKING as a HEALER, then go a spec meant for both, or jsut go attacking. There's no reason a healer should let his team mates die so he/she can go heal.


GOD DAMNIT what happened to the GOOD pallies on this Forum?


Lately all I hear is "QQ we can't attack as heals, QQ we are weak, QQ that guy has one mroe spell than me!"

[Baabinator]

HOWLY SHAWK IS DMG MKAY

What, do you want? Holy Bolt? like in Diablo 2 except usable to every target?

...In what world would this make retridin's NOT even more overpowered?

[Jutteri]

Holy shock and judgements are good damage?
Waaah i want holy pyro blast, holy blast, holy nova, holy blink, holy bolt, holy mutilate, holy MS, holy aimed shot, holy obliterate, holy multi shot, holy eviscerate etc etc.

Seriously if you want to dmg, spec ret.

[Copain]

[size=8][color=red]Seriously if you want to dmg, spec ret.

[Astray]

A friend came to me and said "hey, wanna level my druid?"
Since i know his password, i secretly testet his charakter.

Questing as a heal-druid sucks.
Wrath, Moonfire, Starfire?
3 Spells~ hitting for nothing.

[sobolanul]

Priests, Druids and Shaman all have spammable offensive spells that work with their healing/SP gear.

Please tell me the priest spamable spell? If you are reffering to lolsmite, then that does less damage that the holy paladin auto attack