Repentance

[Raiss]

Does a Paladin have a harder time killing Healers than some other classes? Yes.

As a prot-healer, i think ret paladins are much more of a danger them rogues and warriors. Both Arms and rogues have MS + interrupt (and prot doesn't have any instant heal, so interrupts are bad), but their dmg is really lower if I'm able to block their atacks. Ret paladins have stuns + high dmg that can get pretty deadly, while rogues and warriors can only hurt when using cooldowns (vanish+stun and bladestorm)

[amk]

Repentance is perfectly fine. Its awesome in PvE, and it still can be useful in PvP.

Buffing repentance isn't the solution to the 'unkillable healer' problem

[sah303136]

glyph of exo is what needs to come back to kill a healer ( except those fucking druids and their hots =p)
  make a 10sec cd inline with kick pummel etc
  and the secondary effect, make it do x% less damage, where x makes it so it does the SAME DPS but less burst ie 33% less

also repent on a lower cd (prefered cause it slightly buffs pvp also) or a higher duration would be quite nice for pve ( i lol at the thought of sheep being on a minute cd in mc)

edit: and fucking fix the bugs

[Ronark]

As a prot-healer, i think ret paladins are much more of a danger them rogues and warriors. Both Arms and rogues have MS + interrupt (and prot doesn't have any instant heal, so interrupts are bad), but their dmg is really lower if I'm able to block their atacks. Ret paladins have stuns + high dmg that can get pretty deadly, while rogues and warriors can only hurt when using cooldowns (vanish+stun and bladestorm)

L2Resilience

Anything over 700+ Resilience make Ret paladins mere flies on Blizzard's wall of the animal kingdom.

[Sypher]

As a prot-healer, i think ret paladins are much more of a danger them rogues and warriors. Both Arms and rogues have MS + interrupt (and prot doesn't have any instant heal, so interrupts are bad), but their dmg is really lower if I'm able to block their atacks. Ret paladins have stuns + high dmg that can get pretty deadly, while rogues and warriors can only hurt when using cooldowns (vanish+stun and bladestorm)

I lol'd.

Anyway, yes retri paladins could use some more "tools" in pvp (arena). Since it gets pretty booring to get destroyed by any priest team, warrior/druids and shaman/X and even deathknights with healers. And that is due to the fact that we lack utility, priest teams annihilate you due to manaburns and their bubble absorbing shitloads. Warrior/Druid wins due to mortal strike putting out a higher preasure combined with the warrior damage. And shamans are just purging away everything meanwhile their partner is ripping you apart. Yes, we are talking arena @ 2.6k rating level and not 1.2k where everyone is wearing 10 resilience and goes "LOL RETZ R ZE OP!!!!!!!!!!///////"

[TwistedPower]

wow what a stupid topic, repentance is fine the way it is, if you actually used it correctally there wouldnt be any problem with it. And dont bitch about your stun, you can still get more then half the classes in the game to 40% hp or less durring it, and if you cant your gear sucks or you dont have more then 3 fingers to press the 4 buttons that make up ret in a row. When my pally switches to ret i have 0 problems other then beeing kited and banishing sombody for 10 seconds isnt going to do anything.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

While the concept of better CC is one that is rarely approached by the Ret Community, it would still balance things over where they stand now.

In PvP, either the Ret Paladin and his team annihilates one or more of you in the opening strings of burst and CDs, and it appears, and in fact is, laughably easy, or it's a long drawn out match that any team including a Ret Paladin is in a poor position to win.

Ret Paladins have two very important cooldowns, AW, our only hope of doing significant enough damage of any sort to any team including a Disc Priest, and Divine Shield, our only defensive CD, and one on a 5 minute CD that also locks out AW. In the inevitable 2-5 minute stretch where both are on CD, a Paladin is even squishier than a rogue, with lower dodge, less CC, and no additional escape/control tools.

My personal vote for the utility we'd be given to compensate our waning PvP ability is an offensive Dispell, and I'd love it if it was like spellsteal, but granted the stolen buff to a random teammate/party member, so that the most frequent application was to protect a healer, and eat through Disc Priests. Both the class that facerolls us, and the class we faceroll over have a direct, undeniable, unavoidable, guaranteed counter to our only defensive maneuver, and application of said counter almost always results in a quick, easy victory. Giving Paladins an offensive dispel to counter their shields would reduce their effectiveness, but would not wholly upset the balance of Priests facerolling Paladins, just as Shattering Throw did little to upset the balance of Paladins facerolling Warriors. In a team however, it compensates enough to set things in balance, just as Shattering Throw did for Warriors.

I think it would be a justified, and beneficial change across the PvP boards. Fewer Disc Priests means more Shamans/Warlocks, who are among those hit hardest by mana burn.

[Sinister Knight]

I cant believe what I'm seeing...

Your justification for this change is because at the moment, its breaking due to dots/concecration? Seriously L2P.

Dont fucking dot you moron - Rogues have to live without using Rupture, Garotte and Deadly poison on our CC'd targets because of this, why can't you?

oh noes, so they use Wounding and Crippling poison to make us harder to be healed and slow us down. I can't believe you just whined in Rogues' defense about poisons and dots. /Face.Palm.

[Mysmere]

L2Resilience

Anything over 700+ Resilience make Ret paladins mere flies on Blizzard's wall of the animal kingdom.

l2 coordinate with your healer.

coordination makes a healers attempts to survive negligible

[Raiss]

L2Resilience

Anything over 700+ Resilience make Ret paladins mere flies on Blizzard's wall of the animal kingdom.

900 resil
28k hp

And i still can get hit hard enough for a ret, you still get crit almost everything. And as someone said, arena isn't 1v1, if you are playing with a healer they can CC/interrupt/hex/manaburn/DPS, if you are playing with a DPS, you won't need to do it alone.
At 1v1 of course a ret paladin will almost surely lose, but if you are speced and QQ'ing about duels, just go and kill yourself.
If you really think that a ret paladin can't down a decent healer, why there are lots at 2300+ more?
Now, if you are using a low DPS weapon and don't know how to play arenas (again, arenas =/= bg and duel), just quit trying to kill the healer, because you won't be able to do it. Funny thing your paladin doesn't have a "Step into the Arena" achiev.

How to not kill a healer as a ret: OMG I DO INSANE DPS BUT HE WON'T DIE

How to kill a healer: Make sure he doesn't have the trinket cooldown, use your wings, ask your "retro" shammy to shock his next heal, wait until the interrupt is gone, stun, finish him.


edit: i quite agree that rets needs a change, pvp included. But that doesn't means that you can't pvp nowdays.

[Ronark]

900 resil
28k hp

And i still can get hit hard enough for a ret, you still get crit almost everything. And as someone said, arena isn't 1v1, if you are playing with a healer they can CC/interrupt/hex/manaburn/DPS, if you are playing with a DPS, you won't need to do it alone.
At 1v1 of course a ret paladin will almost surely lose, but if you are speced and QQ'ing about duels, just go and kill yourself.
If you really think that a ret paladin can't down a decent healer, why there are lots at 2300+ more?
Now, if you are using a low DPS weapon and don't know how to play arenas (again, arenas =/= bg and duel), just quit trying to kill the healer, because you won't be able to do it. Funny thing your paladin doesn't have a "Step into the Arena" achiev.

How to not kill a healer as a ret: OMG I DO INSANE DPS BUT HE WON'T DIE

How to kill a healer: Make sure he doesn't have the trinket cooldown, use your wings, ask your "retro" shammy to shock his next heal, wait until the interrupt is gone, stun, finish him.


edit: i quite agree that rets needs a change, pvp included. But that doesn't means that you can't pvp nowdays.

My intention was to point out that it is much easier to "negate" a Ret paladin simply based on Resilence alone, since unlike other classes, the (ret) Paladin has only 3 offensive pressures: a 6 second stun on a 60/50/40 second CD, Repentance (when not against Druid Trees), and Burst damage. All other classes have at least some form of reliable offensive ability (silence/interrupt/fear/snare) while the paladin has little to none.

Yeah Arenas are a team "sport", but having to rely on ANY class (read:class, not specc) to do something you lack is more of a design flaw, if anything.

[distantarray]

What i think would be nice is a slow like effect added to repentance would be nice, during the repentance duration you got run speed decrease if the enemy is knocked out wouldn't break the game either.

[Ronark]

What i think would be nice is a slow like effect added to repentance would be nice, during the repentance duration you got run speed decrease if the enemy is knocked out wouldn't break the game either.

Just make JoJ reduce movement speed to say 80% in addition to its current effect.

[distantarray]

so you liked my idea in the other topic i see :P

[Ronark]

so you liked my idea in the other topic i see :P

Its a hell of alot easier to fix a (nearly) never used spell into something useful.

[distantarray]

Its a hell of alot easier to fix a (nearly) never used spell into something useful.

and not game breaking for pve or pvp imo

[Ronark]

and not hugely game breaking for pve or pvp imo

If it kept the "Limits movement speed" attribute, 80% speed would be fine, since they can't i.e. use Sprint and go (100-20=) 80% faster.

Lol not like any paladin in their right mind would even USE JoJ in PvE (Aside from a Prot paladin when you already have a Ret's Light and a Holy's Wisdom).

[Raiss]

Yeah Arenas are a team "sport", but having to rely on ANY class (read:class, not specc) to do something you lack is more of a design flaw, if anything.

Well, if you don't want to rely on any class: I can kill warriors and rogues just with ret aura, conc and holy shield. They rely their partner to kill me, just as the ret paladin. So warriors and rogues are bad in arenas too?
The only melee class that I might have issues 1v1 are DK's, due their large number of interrupts and self healing.
What I'm try to get is: no class should be able to surely kill someone alone in arena. A healer shouldn't easy target, nor unkillable. People are saying that: IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KILL A HEALER AS A RET, WE NEED BUFFS/CHANGES. But this is not true, it's possible to kill a healer as a ret, and even more possible if helped by your partner.

[Vinictus]

Go play the last half of Ulduar and get back to me on that one. Especially General's trash.

You can AoE it np

[Adamson]

I always thought it would be neat if JoJ made it so that that target was slowed 15% less than whatever the paladins speed was restricted to.


For instance, improved hamstring on my improved hamstrings the target I have JoJ in.

L:O