Expertise>Crit? Looking for PVE pros opinions

[wrathdragon]

so, lately ive been finding myself sacrificing AP and crit to try to get expertise capped. Ive done a lot of testing on the training dummy (boss level) and was noticing that alot of my attacks were getting dodged / parried or glancing blows....yesterday, on a 2 min cycle, 20% of my crusader strikes were dodged when i swapped out gear and let my expertise drop to 19....which was not cool. not cool at all.

but, im losing a LOT of crit, and dropping below the softcap for hit(7% is fine but barely) and ive been losing AP due to having to equip items with lower AP for the other stats.

so, my question to all the pro retadins- crit or expertise?

here's my armory...keep in mind i just started in ulduar after a short break from wow. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=Wrathdragon

[Zylos]

you shouldnt be getting parried stand ont he other side of the dummy

[Xs]

Expertise is about an equal DPS upgrade point for point to Stren when you're under the soft cap
Hit is a better increase but still not better than Stren

Just aim towards the correct gear and you'll be fine, its near impossible not to get hit capped in Ulduar gear anyway

[Swampmoose]

Expertise is about an equal DPS upgrade point for point to Stren when you're under the soft cap
Hit is a better increase but still not better than Stren

Just aim towards the correct gear and you'll be fine, its near impossible not to get hit capped in Ulduar gear anyway

Hit is still better than Str.

[Xs]

Meh, my Redcape kept it the same when I was going from 7-8%

[Tozar]

they hell do you mean, "soft cap" for hit. There is no "soft cap". theres one cap, an its 8% for Ret paladins.

*whiny voice* "But exorcism is on the spell hit table..." I don't care. Exorcism is like 4% of your damage. OH NOES, 4% of your damage reduced by 3% is... wait for it... immaterial.


In conclusion, in caveman terms: Hit good. Expertise good. Strength good.

[Xs]

Its still a soft cap anyway, same way Rogue's/Shammy's soft cap is the spell hit cap rather than dual wield cap

[wrathdragon]

they hell do you mean, "soft cap" for hit. There is no "soft cap". theres one cap, an its 8% for Ret paladins.

*whiny voice* "But exorcism is on the spell hit table..." I don't care. Exorcism is like 4% of your damage. OH NOES, 4% of your damage reduced by 3% is... wait for it... immaterial.


In conclusion, in caveman terms: Hit good. Expertise good. Strength good.

'the hell i mean' is that you only need 7% in a raid environment with a draenai present for heroic presence, according to how ive had it explained to me. and, every raid has at least 1 spacegoat.

and who said anything about exorcism? exo is dead last on the fcfs as far as im concerned due to how shit tastic its damage is over a length of time, glyphed or not, compared to the other dps abilities.

nice response, tho. wtg tho on showing that you are a total douchebag.

[Nikoll]

stack the hell out of str. for god sakes dont ever gem for hit and exp. yeah, hit and exp are nice, but they will come and dont scale as well as str.

[Kuthumii]

stack the hell out of str. for god sakes dont ever gem for hit and exp. yeah, hit and exp are nice, but they will come and dont scale as well as str.

Catch up with the times.

Hit (until cap) > Str = Expertise

That is the the order. Str and Expertise are about the same. That said, do not gem for it. If you are under hit cap; gem to hit cap then stack Str. Expertise will come with gear.

[Grig]

stack the hell out of str. for god sakes dont ever gem for hit and exp. yeah, hit and exp are nice, but they will come and dont scale as well as str.

Disagree. Hit is a better stat then strength until the melee cap. Afterwards, go entirely for strength.

You should focus on remianing hit capped at all times. After that, gem/enchant as much strength as you can on your gear. Expertise is your third best stat after hit and strength, don't gem for it (waste of a red socket) but gear for it heavily instead. You'll find that gear of the same ilvl will have roughly the same amount of strength (roughly, don't hang me for this).

And yeah, QQ me ret gear sucks, offset ftl, etc. I'm prot mainspec but it helps to be aware of what one needs to do with your other two specs.

[DaGhostDS]

'the hell i mean' is that you only need 7% in a raid environment with a draenai present for heroic presence, according to how ive had it explained to me. and, every raid has at least 1 spacegoat.

and who said anything about exorcism? exo is dead last on the fcfs as far as im concerned due to how shit tastic its damage is over a length of time, glyphed or not, compared to the other dps abilities.

nice response, tho. wtg tho on showing that you are a total douchebag.

1= 5 person buffed with their racials
you need 1 draenei per group

[Adamson]

I would post but I'm not pro

[wrathdragon]

I would post but I'm not pro

ive read your posts before...if anyone was qualified to answer you are prolly near the top of the list as far as regular posters go.

and, to the draenai issue....we got lots of draenai in our guild....dont know why that is.... ???

[Adamson]

and, to the draenai issue....we got lots of draenai in our guild....dont know why that is.... ???

Yeah we typically have 4-6 at all times.

[Nudi]

'the hell i mean' is that you only need 7% in a raid environment with a draenai present for heroic presence, according to how ive had it explained to me. and, every raid has at least 1 spacegoat.

Dont forget the horde, mon

[FireBorne]

reach the expertise cap asap. on my raid last night i saw one dodge and was nearly irate at myself for thinking 25 expertise was acceptable since i didnt want to regem just for one expertise point. So if you want to see dodges(which is a dps loss all the str in the world means nothing when you cant hit your target) by all means stay under the dodge cap.

[Sinister Knight]

reach the expertise cap asap. on my raid last night i saw one dodge and was nearly irate at myself for thinking 25 expertise was acceptable since i didnt want to regem just for one expertise point. So if you want to see dodges(which is a dps loss all the str in the world means nothing when you cant hit your target) by all means stay under the dodge cap.

Yes and No. As others have said, do not bother gemming for Expertise, the power of your hits with the extra Str more than make up for 1-2 Dodges in the entirety of a boss fight, not to mention heavier hitting FoL's when need be with AoW procs when healing gets hairy. You are a hybrid, if you tunnel vision and don't utilize your other abilities in lieu of pure dpsing, you fail as a paladin. Get the Rawr app spreadsheet, see how much gear is out there with Expertise on it (3 rings at least in Ulduar), if you can afford it get the http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45550 crafted and if nothing else the H EoE Trinket Mark of Norgannon http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40531 can help you get to exp cap.

[Adamson]

reach the expertise cap asap. on my raid last night i saw one dodge and was nearly irate at myself for thinking 25 expertise was acceptable since i didnt want to regem just for one expertise point. So if you want to see dodges(which is a dps loss all the str in the world means nothing when you cant hit your target) by all means stay under the dodge cap.

I lol'd


Note:

So if I give you all my expertise can I haz 800 more strength?

kthx

[iktankniet]

reach the expertise cap asap. on my raid last night i saw one dodge and was nearly irate at myself for thinking 25 expertise was acceptable since i didnt want to regem just for one expertise point. So if you want to see dodges(which is a dps loss all the str in the world means nothing when you cant hit your target) by all means stay under the dodge cap.

ah i c. thats why i never hit the boss

tnx for clearing it up m8!