Idea for new Ret talent

[mephisto03]

What I really want ret pallies to have is everything a warrior, a dk, and a pally can do and toss it all into one! Then a pally might stand a chance in some arenas!

Fixed

[Exorte]

Idea for new Ret Talent:

(Insert stupid holy charge name here)
8 - 25 yd range 30 second cooldown
Instant
Charge an enemy, causing 189 damage and rooting it for 3 sec.

Oh hey I fixed Ret.



Edit: to put in a cooldown

More class homo
CHeer.
sigh.
be creative??

[Ryevin]

why do pallys think they need MS! shammys dont have ms dks dont have ms druids dont have ms. your not the only class that dosnt have MS. If u want to be awesome in arenas go holy. At least u have it easier getting up in rateings unlike shammys who have no cc no ways to get out of stuns no bubble nothing but yet pallys want to QQ about not having MS quit crying already.

shammys have wind shock and earth shock to atleast stop heals. DK have mind freeze and a silence aswell.
pallies have... stun with 40 second cd if talented. and repent on a 1 minute cd.


this is why we have a harder time killing healers then the other two named classes.

[Handsylton]

What they should do is give us one more silence. Arcane Torrent is for Blood Elves. Okay, give Alliance paladins something similar in the talent tree. Sure, that would give Blood Elf pallies one more silence, and HoJ, AT, Repentence + another silence gives Horde paladins a little more CC then Blizzard would want them to have. So, as an easy solution. Remove Arcane Torrent. Place another CC silence low in the Ret tree, and make it work exactly like Arcane Torrent currently does. Or even better, just give all paladins Arcane Torrent as a baseline skill, but call it something different. OMG, everyone has another silence, everyone has a stun, everyone has a gap closer. Problem solved.

[Mysmere]

Idea for new Ret Talent:

(Insert stupid holy charge name here)
8 - 25 yd range 30 second cooldown
Instant
Charge an enemy, causing 189 damage and rooting it for 3 sec.

Oh hey I fixed Ret.



Edit: to put in a cooldown

a charge would be the least useful ability they could give us.

snare/interrupt/ms would all be way better

[iktankniet]

What they should do is give us one more silence. Arcane Torrent is for Blood Elves. Okay, give Alliance paladins something similar in the talent tree. Sure, that would give Blood Elf pallies one more silence, and HoJ, AT, Repentence + another silence gives Horde paladins a little more CC then Blizzard would want them to have. So, as an easy solution. Remove Arcane Torrent. Place another CC silence low in the Ret tree, and make it work exactly like Arcane Torrent currently does. Or even better, just give all paladins Arcane Torrent as a baseline skill, but call it something different. OMG, everyone has another silence, everyone has a stun, everyone has a gap closer. Problem solved.

why would i want to spend a talentpoint if i have it for free now? AT is a racial ability for Bloodelves. just like humans have get-out-of-stun racial. live with it

and please, just give it a second thought before you post retarded ideas.

[Soulbender]

I've got an idea for ret, too : every time you see a "i've got a new idea for ret" thread, hit backspace.

I know, lots of backspace. Better those posts be automatically one shotted, tbh.

[Arganaut]

"I would like to see them implement a system in which we build up to a large dps nuke."

QFT and I think they could do with this Divine Storm. I want to build up DPS on my target slowly and have them running to this hills when I use my "the storm is coming macro".

I didn't really want to write all this but find myself with little else to do on my lunch break.

Rework Seal of Command so that this becomes THE seal of choice in PVP, and keep SOB/M in PVE.
Rework talents, Vindication, Eye for an Eye and Crusade.
Vindication is still a skill less talent and causes resentment, e.g. reduces a Warriors attack power by 300 simply for hitting them.
E4E is there to counter Rogues and Ferals, but again, skill less.
rusade is cack in Ulduar, most enemies are Giants so this is essentially a 3% damage nerf.

Vengeance

I don't see a Rogue or Feral style combo point system but can see them re-using the Vengeance ability to work along similar lines.

PVE

Critical stikes from Crusader Stike, Judgements, Excorism, causes Vengeance, increasing holy damage taken by 1/2/3%.

PVP

Critical stikes from Crusader Strike, Judgements, Seal of Command, causes Vengeance, increase holy damage taken by 1/2/3%.

* SOC needs a change here to make it work well in PVP, but not too good in PVE. SOB/M will not proc Vengeance.

When 3 stacks of Vengeance are applied to the target, Divine Storm becomes active. In exchange for DS being used less often, it needs buffing to be a truely decent 51 point talent. Let is to Holy damage, not phyiscal. Let Divine Storm unleash a strong amount of holy power to damage and heal.

* Vengeance remains on the target for 15 seconds. So if you cannot apply a second crit without 15 seconds you cannot get the 2nd, 3rd stack.

So in a PVP world, the up front damage is decreased a great deal, the build up to the big storm can be countered in 101 ways through CC, escaping etc, but the eventual storm should it hit will hurt. Just like a Conlag, Chaos Bolt, Soulfire, Pyro, Fingers or Frost proc, Lava Burst, etc, etc.


Hand of Reckoning and Vindication

I'd like to see Hand of Reckoning used to proc Vindication in addition to the usual taunt ability. It would of course be immune on PVE NPCs. HOR would apply Vindication to the target for 10 seconds with the 8 second cooldown, and can stack 3 times.

Vindication could do one of a number of things. I'm not convinced reducing stats is the way to go, but it could reduce all stats by 5%, or reduce casting speed by 5%, etc, etc. Basically, to apply Vindication would require a degree of skill, to cast HOR in a 2 second window to enable the maximum effect. Positive side would be, less focus on facerolling, and more applicaton of control on the target, while giving them a chance to escape it.

Crusade

Increase all damage to all targets by 3% and increases all Holy Damage caused when the target is affected by Rightous Vengeance. Buff for PVE, SOB/M, Judgements, Exo attacks, however, in PVP, RV will still break Repentance, therefore a Retri sacrifices the CC ability by having additional Holy damage, or vice versa.

Eye for an Eye -

I'm still in two minds about this. I don't think it's a good talent, but will still take it, as it is probably one of the only things stopping a Rogue stunlocking me to death. Suggestions welcome.

Anti-Kiting Measure -

Hammer of Wrath - works as per usual when target is below 20%. When above 20%, HOW will knockdown and the target for 1 sec, minimum range 15 yards. Small, not so overpowered ability, to counter classes that kite us to death.

[Handsylton]

why would i want to spend a talentpoint if i have it for free now? AT is a racial ability for Bloodelves. just like humans have get-out-of-stun racial. live with it

and please, just give it a second thought before you post retarded ideas.

Mmk, then just add one more silence. Call it "The Holy STFU", and when you read someone's ideas and don't like them, the player can cast "STFU of Might", which makes them stop being negative fuckers without any constructive criticism who just like to bitch because they have NO ideas for improving our spec, and everything they've tried to suggest has gotten shot down so they have a lot of nerd rage going on. It has a 12 second cooldown.

[Ake]

Lets Fix the overpowered broken class by making it more broken and overpowered!
/thread

[EzriEU]

Just looking at this thread (and, sadly, any other thread on mmo-champ short of those only about PvE-healing) you can easily determine what the real problem of Paladins in general and Ret-Paladins in particular is:

a) The general perception of Divine Shield as the "I Win" Button that is has not been any more for several years now, set aside a short period of design-error following patch 3.0. That's easy to be understood, since everyone hates to have an opponent that can isolate from whatever they do for 12 sec. The fact that DS cuts the Paladins dmg by half, prevents him from using a burst dmg CD for 30 sec. and can be removed by two classes now tends to be ignored. Yet, DS is a strong ability, iconic to the Paladin class, but it's by no means an "I win" Button any more. It has been when 3.0 was introduced - but even we Paladins were at a loss comprehending who came up with the idea of letting us use Avenging Wrath while protected by DS with no dmg-reduction at the time. That was as much over the top as I can think of - one of Blizzards worst mistakes that deeply changed the perception of Paladins - deep enough at least that even now we get complaints along that line of argumentation although that misdesign has been (rightfully so!) rectified a long time ago.

b) Exactly what Ghostcrawler stated himself: Paladins don't really have a hard time setting up their dmg which makes them quite powerful agains both undergeared and not very skilled opponents. In other words: It's not very demanding to run up to some poor scrub and push Button 1,2,3 in a row, unloading Crusader Strike, Judgment and Divine Storm, throwing in an auto attack and 3 seal procs (assuming Blood/Martyr). This can be supplemented by a stun and thus be quite deadly most of the time if the opponent neither has the gear nor the skill to counter it.
On the other hand - as soon as your opponent wears the appropriate gear in PvP and knows what he's up against, a Ret-Paladin is among the easiest classes to counter due to being limited to a very simple "rotation" and pure dmg without any form of complementing utility. Compared to warriors he lacks snare, MS, gap closer and spell interrupt, compared to a DK he lacks snare, several spell interrupts, out-of-character abilities (Pet/Gargolye etc.), gap closer and a multitude of survival cooldowns. All of this at the benefit of a single but strong defensive cooldown (that can be removed by a warrior), a counter to movement-CC that can be both dispelled and spell-stolen and high on demand burst.

Example: Though being Holy by choice 90% of the time, I sometimes enjoy a litte "Ret-vacation" myself. Just yesterday, I've had both examples of opponents in abundance. One Mage (being the most powerful counter-class to Ret-paladins imaginable) jumped me from a bush in WSG, Arcane spec, AP up, opening with Arcane Blast (7k crit) and ABarr (4k crit). He had about 18-19k HP with close to no resilience (PvE-gear as it seemed). As I turned and ran up to him he actually blinked away right through me to get some distance, got repented, stunned right afterwards with no means of escape (didn't use Ice Block or Insignia at least) and received his punishment for clearly not knowing what the f**k to do with a 6.9k Crusader Strike + Seal Proc around 3k - I had Wings up + Reflection of Torment.
A different BG a Frost spec'd mage attacked me, Frostbolt => Frostbite-Proc => Deep Freeze-Stun. Insignia on my part to save Hand of Freedom and Repentance to counter his next Frostbolt and avoid the snare. Insignia on his part to counter Repentance and Waterelemental-Nova. Dispelled by me still trying to save Hand of Freedom and I got up to him for a second. Lucky crits pierced his Ice Barrier and hurt him a bit, Cone of Cold to get away from me. Dispell by me, a luck white hit + seal got him to about 70% when he got lucky with an Ice-Armor Frostbite Proc. Still too many debuffs to dispell so finally Hand of Freedom + Instant FoL on my part while closing up again. Hand of Freedom instantly spell-stolen, Ice Barrier back up and that's when I made my worst mistake: I should have baited a Counterspell by faking a (not really neccessary) heal, but instead I stunned. Blink, Ranged Nova No.2 + Deep Freeze again. Only option to avoid the Shatter-combo: Divine Shield, so he just ran away and so on and so on.... I made a mistake, I clearly got outplayed but even if I hadn't HoJ'ed at that point I doubt that I'd had a chance.
Same story short: One BG a restro-Druid scrub that had no HoTs on himself, 20k HP and close to no resilience: Died withing HoJ-Stun + Arcane Torent silence, didn't use Barskin, didn't use Nature's Swiftness - just died! Another BG: A Resto-Druid easily lived through me and another Ret Paladin continuously beating on him, using Trinkets and Avenging Wrath and didn't even go oom. He eventually died when our Disc Priest finally came around and pumped half of his own mana bar into that Druid, manaburning through his remaining mana as well as a Barskin-Innervate.

[iktankniet]

Mmk, then just add one more silence. Call it "The Holy STFU", and when you read someone's ideas and don't like them, the player can cast "STFU of Might", which makes them stop being negative fuckers without any constructive criticism who just like to bitch because they have NO ideas for improving our spec, and everything they've tried to suggest has gotten shot down so they have a lot of nerd rage going on. It has a 12 second cooldown.

quite funny, but its OP

on a serious note.i dont waste my time trying to think of ways to 'fix' or 'improve' ret. that's the dev teams job. sure, i can make up some retarded talents, but whats the point? there is a 99,9% chance that it wont be implemented because Blizzard has it's own ideas of 'fixing' ret.

i've tried to give constructive comment earlier to your 'ideas' to fix ret. i gave reasons why it would make them OP, but you didnt believe me. whats the point of constructive criticism if you ignore it?

rather go find out how you can improve with the recent combat system ret has. if you really are a paladin. when patchnotes are announced, then you can make your posts about ideas to do the best dps rotation and w/e.

untill then, i will cast STFU of Might on you and hope it wont be resisted.

[Ake]

Alright, so you're stating that you got outplayed badly... yet hes at what 60% at this point... and you're bubbled getting fully healed waiting for cds. how's it fair to have to kill you twice.. when you have equal CC and higher burst than any other class, with great survivability + heals.

No lie, my druid partner had full hots, we were at the 2100 rating... and my partner died from full life, with lifebloom proccing, during a HOJ... even if it's lucky crits.. it happens a lot, to a lot of people. stop trying to ask for paladin buffs, when i see ret paladins keyboard turning in the 2k+ ratings.

[iktankniet]

Alright, so you're stating that you got outplayed badly... yet hes at what 60% at this point... and you're bubbled getting fully healed waiting for cds. how's it fair to have to kill you twice.. when you have equal CC and higher burst than any other class, with great survivability + heals.

No lie, my druid partner had full hots, we were at the 2100 rating... and my partner died from full life, with lifebloom proccing, during a HOJ... even if it's lucky crits.. it happens a lot, to a lot of people. stop trying to ask for paladin buffs, when i see ret paladins keyboard turning in the 2k+ ratings.

you presume we're asking for pvp buffs. some paladins do, but most dont. i dont for a change. im rather curious about the changes that will be made to the rotation of ret. i hope it will be a more stable dps type and a bit higher, thats all.

[Ake]

you presume we're asking for pvp buffs. some paladins do, but most dont. i dont for a change. im rather curious about the changes that will be made to the rotation of ret. i hope it will be a more stable dps type and a bit higher, thats all.

lol. look at that contents of this thread, and you'll know why im making these statements. As for increasing DPS, i don't really have an issue with it, since the ret pallies i group with are never near the top, and if they're close recount still counts the damage they deal to themselves as dps if im not mistaken. so i don't really have an issue with that, what im complaining about is ret pallies that want a MS/SNARE/interrupt, is just kind of retarded and out of the question imho.

[Bakis]

I think having a new talent that does damage rather than root someone would be far better for the class. My main reason for this is I want more buttons to click while doing PvE content. But to be honest, a root ability doesn't go with the paladin class imo. I like the stun and sleep ability's that we have right now.

Im not a pala but what this person typed made sense. Paladins are viewd as a pretty straight on class, not an evil snaring class
Don't forget from a PvP pov the most boring thing must be the lack of keypresses and constantly hearing from players like me that retri is a no-brainer . Another damagekey would make both PvE and PvP more fun. A snare wouldn't be used in PvE.

Cheers

[Vashta]

Ret doesn't need any more CC.

[qsubt05]

Dear Retardins....

I know, game isnt balanced 1v1, but listen, 4year old girl which dont understand abilites, CD, etcetc, ... she easy kill half "durotar duelist" as retardin (fury/dedly). Random pressing 5 buttons... what i want say: stop CRY, u dont need MS, charge, extra root / silence... u have plate, dispell, dmg, heal, buble+HS .... and ofc, u dont need skill, just 5 fingers for 5 buttons and half brain.
So stay happy and shut up,retard is pretty all-round class and imho dont need any buf.


bye.
PS: sorry for my bad english.

[Handsylton]

quite funny, but its OP

on a serious note.i dont waste my time trying to think of ways to 'fix' or 'improve' ret. that's the dev teams job. sure, i can make up some retarded talents, but whats the point? there is a 99,9% chance that it wont be implemented because Blizzard has it's own ideas of 'fixing' ret.

i've tried to give constructive comment earlier to your 'ideas' to fix ret. i gave reasons why it would make them OP, but you didnt believe me. whats the point of constructive criticism if you ignore it?

rather go find out how you can improve with the recent combat system ret has. if you really are a paladin. when patchnotes are announced, then you can make your posts about ideas to do the best dps rotation and w/e.

untill then, i will cast STFU of Might on you and hope it wont be resisted.

Well played sir.
On a serious note too, I would just like to say that "That's too OP" is not really constructive criticism. Just wanted to point that out.


Just thinking about it... ever think that Ret's biggest problem with burst is they do so much fricken holy damage? I mean for a melee class to have 60% of their damage be unresistable, and seals being stacked onto every attack we have... it just seems like it's too much. Maybe balancing out the equation and lowering our Holy damage while increasing our physical damage would lower our burst. This would also bring ArmorPen more in line with where Blizzard wants us to itemize it, because they honestly don't want us to be running away from ArmPen like the plague. Just a thought.

[Greengoo]

Idea for new Ret Talent:

(Insert stupid holy charge name here)
8 - 25 yd range 30 second cooldown
Instant
Charge an enemy, causing 189 damage and rooting it for 3 sec.

Oh hey I fixed Ret.



Edit: to put in a cooldown

Give this man an internets!