Commentary and a question on SoV/Corr

[archaelies]

Ok so with the planned changes to our preferred seal for PvE, we now need to know how much SoV/Corr ticks for. So I was just wondering if someone could go whack a dummy for me and post how much it ticks for on average, as i cant get online atm. also post what your self-buffed AP is, thanks.

[archaelies]

I would also like to pont out that when i was fiddling with Rawr a second a go, i changed the seal component and had a look at the Judgement damage for Blood and Vengeance. It said on average a Blood crit will be 6k (with 6.2k ap buffed) and vengeance crit will be 9k (same ap).
TBH if this is accurate and vengeance provides bigger judgement's, well, these changes sound pretty good to me, not to mention the free 10 expertise on glyph.

[Handsylton]

Just doing napkin math with current values:

DoT for Vengeance = [.15AP+.088SP]5

Assuming a 4000 AP buffed Ret, Sheathe of Light gives him 1200 SP so

[(4000*.15)+(1200*.088)]5
(600+105.6)5
(3000+528) = 3528/15sec = 235.2 DPS.

[arel00]

Just doing napkin math with current values:

DoT for Vengeance = [.15AP+.088SP]5

Assuming a 4000 AP buffed Ret, Sheathe of Light gives him 1200 SP so

[(4000*.15)+(1200*.088)]5
(600+105.6)5
(3000+528) = 3528/15sec = 235.2 DPS.

Make that more like 5-6k AP. Personally I beat 4k just by my own BoM. Btw, why 0.088? Afaik it's 7.8%.
Corrected.

Assuming the stats of my guild's nr1 retpala, raidbuffed (derived from Rawr), we have 6632AP and 2315SP, 2652 average weapon damage and 2.71 swing timer.

SoV does 15% of AP plus 8.8% SP as holy damage over 15 seconds, stacking up to 5 times.
With the mentioned values, we have:

SoV(single) = AP*0.15+SP*0.88 = 1198damage
SoV(stacked) = 1198*5 = 5990damage

To this, we'll add Vengeance, Crusade, Sanctified Retribution, Ebon Plaguebringer and of course, Seals of the Pure (I don't think anyone would be insane enough to skip the talents and use SoV Tongue). Additively, these account for a 43% damage buff.

Hence, SoV(stacked) = 5990*1.43 = 8566 damage

To this, we must add 33% of weapon damage every swing once the dot is fully stacked. I'm hereby assuming that the Seal procs off CS and DS aswell (the dot does), but (since now the dot doesn't I think) not off its own judgement, unlike Blood. Follows:

SoV(swing) = WP*0.33 = 2652*0.33 = 875 damage
Assuming the same buffs, it becomes SoV(swing) = 875*1.43 = 1251 damage
DPS from white swings = 1251/2.71 = 462dps
DPS from CS = 1251/4 = 313dps (remember, CS is at 4sec with 3.2)
DPS from DS = 1251/10 = 125dps

Now add DPS from DoT effect = 8566/15 = 571dps

The total DPS awarded by Seal of Vengeance is 1470dps. Quite a damm load.

Also, yes. By their own formulas, the Judgement of Vengeance hits harder than Judgement of Blood due to scaling factors.

[Draco cracona]

8.8% SP scaling, i.e. 0.088, for SoV as far as I'm aware.

[arel00]

8.8% SP scaling, i.e. 0.088, for SoV as far as I'm aware.

Yeah, I double checked all formulas and it ended up being 8.8%, hence yes, of course 0.088.

I've used the correct values on the other thread, will try to update here

[dvdjrkns]

Looking at the math, it seems too good to be true.
As a prot pally who already pulls insane threat, this is over the top.

I'd like to see some math and logs for including Reckoning in it now.
Maybe it's a bit more viable now with these changes? Have to play with it and see.
Might have to mess around with Seals of the Pure more to.
Very interesting changes coming.


On a side note, Eyonix doesn't seem to have a clue...

Righteousness can remain a tanking seal.

I haven't used Righteousness since BC. :

[arel00]

Looking at the math, it seems too good to be true.
As a prot pally who already pulls insane threat, this is over the top.

I'd like to see some math and logs for including Reckoning in it now.
Maybe it's a bit more viable now with these changes? Have to play with it and see.
Might have to mess around with Seals of the Pure more to.
Very interesting changes coming.


On a side note, Eyonix doesn't seem to have a clue...

I haven't used Righteousness since BC. :

Mind that the math was done for a retri paladin. I checked the changes on myself (protection pala) and with my gear (3xt8 and rest at ilvl226) it should award me something like an extra 680TPS.
Which is, tbh, a huge increase and one of the reasons I doubt it will go Live like this.

[Draco cracona]

Looking at the math, it seems too good to be true.
As a prot pally who already pulls insane threat, this is over the top.

I'd like to see some math and logs for including Reckoning in it now.
Maybe it's a bit more viable now with these changes? Have to play with it and see.
Might have to mess around with Seals of the Pure more to.
Very interesting changes coming.


On a side note, Eyonix doesn't seem to have a clue...

I haven't used Righteousness since BC. :

While threat isn't an issue, it doesn't matter how much more TPS you kick out with reckoning - you gain nothing from the extra threat, and just take more damage.

Righteousness was pretty bad even in BC IMO, I know that I changed to SoV later on after I could get a few pieces of expertise gear and my TPS was solid enough for RoS P3, Illi, warbear runs etc., whereas the other prot pally couldn't put out the TPS for, say, eagle in ZA on a bear run using SoR - I'm not sure if SoV was better overall, but it definately felt steadier and gave me a free GCD after judging etc.. A boosted SoV via wings/figurine was a nice DoT, and I do feel for horde who were stuck without the choice of SoV.

[Ronark]

While threat isn't an issue, it doesn't matter how much more TPS you kick out with reckoning - you gain nothing from the extra threat, and just take more damage.

Righteousness was pretty bad even in BC IMO, I know that I changed to SoV later on after I could get a few pieces of expertise gear and my TPS was solid enough for RoS P3, Illi, warbear runs etc., whereas the other prot pally couldn't put out the TPS for, say, eagle in ZA on a bear run using SoR - I'm not sure if SoV was better overall, but it definately felt steadier and gave me a free GCD after judging etc.. A boosted SoV via wings/figurine was a nice DoT, and I do feel for horde who were stuck without the choice of SoV.

And we were without SoB :P

[dvdjrkns]

While threat isn't an issue, it doesn't matter how much more TPS you kick out with reckoning - you gain nothing from the extra threat, and just take more damage.

Righteousness was pretty bad even in BC IMO, I know that I changed to SoV later on after I could get a few pieces of expertise gear and my TPS was solid enough for RoS P3, Illi, warbear runs etc., whereas the other prot pally couldn't put out the TPS for, say, eagle in ZA on a bear run using SoR - I'm not sure if SoV was better overall, but it definately felt steadier and gave me a free GCD after judging etc.. A boosted SoV via wings/figurine was a nice DoT, and I do feel for horde who were stuck without the choice of SoV.

Agreed, and I'm not saying Reckoning is something to take seriously, but I'd like to play around with it for kicks or at least see some numbers.
I used Righteousness early BC and gave it up soon after, not sure why they think it's still a tanking seal. Only time I think anyone uses it anymore is for leveling, then ditch it as soon as they can.

[Whoopzz]

We really can't tell what it will hit for until the PTR hits. Blizzard said they are increasing the damage of SoV/SoC, but never mentioned by how much.

[Handsylton]

I'm pretty sure the increase in damage from SoV is the 33% extra weapon damage and 2x crits with 5 stacks up. That's how I read it anyway.

[Whoopzz]

I'm pretty sure the increase in damage from SoV is the 33% extra weapon damage and 2x crits with 5 stacks up. That's how I read it anyway.

Right, but the question was about the DoT, which was never mentioned.

[Ronark]

Right, but the question was about the DoT, which was never mentioned.

To put into retro-spec now, when you hit a mob with 5 stacks already, you hit for 10-40 extra damage. One will assume that that damage, and the damage done by the DoT itself, will increase. But like Whoopzz said,

We really can't tell what it will hit for until the PTR hits. Blizzard said they are increasing the damage of SoV/SoC, but never mentioned by how much.