Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

[axxey]

"seems like best" isn't always best.

People are dying therefor your other healers obviously need help with the reactive healing.

example: You spend 6 global cooldowns shielding 6 people who take 3k damage.
Those 6 global cooldowns could have been spent topping off people with your great borrowed time hasted casts, while a holy priest could spend 1 global cooldown on a circle of healing hitting those 6. Or even 1 bubble for borrowed time and a prayer of healing on a target damaged group.

Just because the end result is you "healed more" with your prevention doesn't mean it's always the best use of your time, what else could you have been doing in those 6 global cooldowns of "guessing" where damage is going to come.
Those 6 people you shielded could be fine while someone else dies, those 6 people might never be in danger of death even without shields, while 2 other people you didn't shield or had shielded earlier might die while you're shielding where a reactive penance or flash heal might have easily saved them.

I'll say it again there's certain fights with mechanics of predicable burst when it may be a good thing mass shielding, for the most part it is not and creates weakness in yours and your other healers abilities to deal with incoming damage.

As for holy "resting", it's rather rare, mending and renew are extra powerful global cooldown spells as holy, extremely high % of the time there's a surge of light proc after a CoH or PoH cast, as well as normal flash heal fillers for serendipity when the next PoH is needed. The only real time i deliberately "rest" as holy is when fight mechanics allow it or deliberately out of 5sec with inner focus and devine hymn.
Holy Concentration is not what it once was, out of combat regen stopcasting doesn't come nearly so easily.

[Sonic018]

Just spamming shields is not the role of a disc priest. A really good discipline priest has to find a way between effectively healing the people who need some quick heals and tipping the important people off with shields, so they don't get hurt that much.

I must get back to the initial post and it's first answer. Healing meters are a funny thing to analyse. You can see the skill of a healer but not in the same way as it goes with dmg meters. In dmg meters you mostly can check up the numbers and conclude. The only thing to take into account is tactical movement. This includes melee friendly or melee unfriendly factors and so on. If you know the encounter, you can actually analyse dmg meters in terms of skill.

Most of you know that healing works different. If you really want to be a good healer, there is more to it than just beat everyone in the meters. You have a specific role and the most important thing, you heal as a group. So if you just simply heal everyone off by a shield, maybe you are healing alot, but you are jusst causing overheal to the rest of the healers. This has nothing to do with a good healer. For example lets take ignis. Before the AoE dmg comes in you shield everyone off. Naturally you go quickly oom because you have to do it pretty often during the fight while the other healers still have to use their AoE Healing abilities. Result, all healers consume a lot more mana than necessary to pass trough that part of the encounter. In addition, maybe one of the tanks is going to get killed because you have not enough time or/and mana to keep him alive since the other healers use their AoE spells and you are supposed to keep the tank alive and protected.

The conclusion is that you can heal more than every other healer but remind yourself that you just steal the heal from the others and drive them into overheal. This isn't the role and function of a discipline priest. Every Healer has some sort of a niche and to be a good raid, everyone should use his own niche. A Healpriest and a healdruid can heal your raid through AoE dmg in a more effficient way any Discpriest could ever do it. So as a disc spare your mana for those moments when you need it and leave the other jobs to those healers who can do them a lot better. Forget a bit about Healmeters, the only thing you'll get out of them is if a healer has not fulfilled his role. And if a disc priest does more effective healing than a pure healer and has manaissues he has not fulfilled his!

[Shibba]

its not advised to just shieldspam, since the talent will get nerfed, it already got nerfed. And if people start healing like that, it will get nerfed more.

Plain simple u dont need to use that playstyle to be a great discpriest. Im a haste disc and just throwing out heals and shields at same time, get u very high on the healmeter. In a fight like mimiron, im tophealer behind uberdruid not even counting absorbs just pure healing.

Offcourse unlike u, i stack spellpower now to improve my heals, since that lacks as discpriest.

In the end for all discpriests, its best to learn to use all your healingspells to stay near the top then abusing one spell, if everyone starts your playstyle, u can be sure the talent will be removed since blizz doesnt like one buttong spells. then again just spamming shields randomly doesnt cut it, since sometimes u cant spam em fast enough.

but im having great fun as disc, using almost all my heals.. only doesnt use poh since i think it sux its too slow, and when paired with decent healer every player will be topped off before it hits.

When u speed up your heals with shields, u start to burst out alot of healing.

your playstyle is like holypriest only using coh and we all know how that turned out in the end. play how u like but dont spread your playstyle on other people. every noob can spam shields,

finaly some one from blizz dev team decided to say what blizz likes or not and that they will remove the talent...
oh ure not from blizz dev team, they why are u BSing around stay on topic pls?

and LOL....

so now i shouldnt do my best just becouse i should shiver and be afraid of and incoming nerf?
damn those nasty DK's if they havend done theyr best DPS they would not recive those nerfs...
oh and beast master hunters as well... pffft they hsould have done 3k dps and stayed quiet instead of killing bosses with 5.5k dps in naxx gear right?
and for all those holy priests.... damn shame on you for using your best spell so often... better have wiped and die?! then no one would accuse you for geting a nerf...
right... good thinkin.

between you and me, dont stack so much haste coz blizz will nerf it. omg omg...
grow up and take your nerfs and the buffs as a man, if somthing is overpowerd blizz will fix it regardless if "All Mighty Shibba" usses it or not ok?
and about CoH yeah it got nerfed and yeah it was OP, and ppl used it coz it was the best.
blame blizz not the holyes....

pfffft....

[Shibba]

"seems like best" isn't always best.

People are dying therefor your other healers obviously need help with the reactive healing.

example: You spend 6 global cooldowns shielding 6 people who take 3k damage.
Those 6 global cooldowns could have been spent topping off people with your great borrowed time hasted casts, while a holy priest could spend 1 global cooldown on a circle of healing hitting those 6. Or even 1 bubble for borrowed time and a prayer of healing on a target damaged group.

Just because the end result is you "healed more" with your prevention doesn't mean it's always the best use of your time, what else could you have been doing in those 6 global cooldowns of "guessing" where damage is going to come.
Those 6 people you shielded could be fine while someone else dies, those 6 people might never be in danger of death even without shields, while 2 other people you didn't shield or had shielded earlier might die while you're shielding where a reactive penance or flash heal might have easily saved them.

I'll say it again there's certain fights with mechanics of predicable burst when it may be a good thing mass shielding, for the most part it is not and creates weakness in yours and your other healers abilities to deal with incoming damage.

As for holy "resting", it's rather rare, mending and renew are extra powerful global cooldown spells as holy, extremely high % of the time there's a surge of light proc after a CoH or PoH cast, as well as normal flash heal fillers for serendipity when the next PoH is needed. The only real time i deliberately "rest" as holy is when fight mechanics allow it or deliberately out of 5sec with inner focus and devine hymn.
Holy Concentration is not what it once was, out of combat regen stopcasting doesn't come nearly so easily.

thats exactly what im worried about :/ and trying to figure out...
how exactly my raid shielding gimps the other healers so that they cannot pick up with the leftovers of the dmg after i frikin aborbed most of it... ? how?

[Shibba]

Just spamming shields is not the role of a disc priest. A really good discipline priest has to find a way between effectively healing the people who need some quick heals and tipping the important people off with shields, so they don't get hurt that much.

I must get back to the initial post and it's first answer. Healing meters are a funny thing to analyse. You can see the skill of a healer but not in the same way as it goes with dmg meters. In dmg meters you mostly can check up the numbers and conclude. The only thing to take into account is tactical movement. This includes melee friendly or melee unfriendly factors and so on. If you know the encounter, you can actually analyse dmg meters in terms of skill.

Most of you know that healing works different. If you really want to be a good healer, there is more to it than just beat everyone in the meters. You have a specific role and the most important thing, you heal as a group. So if you just simply heal everyone off by a shield, maybe you are healing alot, but you are jusst causing overheal to the rest of the healers. This has nothing to do with a good healer. For example lets take ignis. Before the AoE dmg comes in you shield everyone off. Naturally you go quickly oom because you have to do it pretty often during the fight while the other healers still have to use their AoE Healing abilities. Result, all healers consume a lot more mana than necessary to pass trough that part of the encounter. In addition, maybe one of the tanks is going to get killed because you have not enough time or/and mana to keep him alive since the other healers use their AoE spells and you are supposed to keep the tank alive and protected.

The conclusion is that you can heal more than every other healer but remind yourself that you just steal the heal from the others and drive them into overheal. This isn't the role and function of a discipline priest. Every Healer has some sort of a niche and to be a good raid, everyone should use his own niche. A Healpriest and a healdruid can heal your raid through AoE dmg in a more effficient way any Discpriest could ever do it. So as a disc spare your mana for those moments when you need it and leave the other jobs to those healers who can do them a lot better. Forget a bit about Healmeters, the only thing you'll get out of them is if a healer has not fulfilled his role. And if a disc priest does more effective healing than a pure healer and has manaissues he has not fulfilled his!

any proof on the "conclusion part" especialy the:
"A Healpriest and a healdruid can heal your raid through AoE dmg in a more effficient way any Discpriest could ever do it"
what is efficient? mana efficient? time efficient? heal/cast?

it seems to me you never raided with heavy disc spammer...

[Shibba]

***************************************************************

Seems to me like im defending my strategy showing that it does work and the majority of the forum readers try to convince me that im "stupid" and that it doesnt...
that it wont work in future...
that its a bad thing to spam shields...
and so on and on...

unless you guys raided with a heavy raid shield spammer dont pretend to know how it feels like, ok? show me a log that i can see that u had some one using that many shields like i did and then point to me why it was so bad and why you wiped.

i agree that the semi shield/heal style of play is very common and mostly accepted by raiders as the main stream, just coz i took my shieldings to the extreme and solved the mana issue for it work well doesnt make me stupid, my strategy is as good as any other strategy for disc priest raid healing.
pls, dont give me your stories "in my uber super alga one shot killing guild our disc does A, B, C" coz i dont care what he does tbh... im not in his shoes why should i care?!
just stay on topic for the pros and cons of this strategy and how i can make it more efficient by using slightly different things not by dont do it at all like that coz u dumb and coz it wont work in future.

I want to spam shields, ok? now help me utilize it better, when to do what when to throw a heal and when to bubble, but keep in mind that i would like to keep spaming shileds
- just make it better.


ty.

[axxey]

I'll ask you some questions then.

If you have borrowed time;
Which heals for more, 2 bubbles or a prayer of healing on 5 people?
A bubble or a penance on someone low giving devine aegis potential?
A bubble or a flash heal on someone under 50% giving devine aegis potential?
Which has more healing potential, one bubble or one prayer of mending?

As holy my renew has more healing potential than your bubbles, doesn't mean i spam renew to the exclusion of my specs other strengths.

[bujaberry]

After reading first 6 pages of this thread, all i can say is Shibba is watching over this thread like over his own child or something xD

As for the entire mechanic, i can agree that shieldspamming might be potentially good on fights like thorim hardmode or freya hardmode or mimiron.

You stated yourself, you're a casual guild, ppl take random dmg, and sorry sir, but the failures of your raiding team make you think spamming shields is viable. In a well-progressing guild this doesn't happen. Thus as i wrote above the only fights i see this every being viable ina good guild, are the ones where aoe can kill someone. In every other fight i'm pretty confident you'd do a lot better staying away from this "healing" strategy.

[axxey]

For what it's worth, if you want to maximise your "style" you should be stacking spell power not int and go 17 points into shadow.
3min shadow fiend will net you more return and you're not making use of most of your talent points anyway.

[Takae]

The problem with the post, Shibba, is that you associate yourself with shitty players. What other reason would you have to come hear and try to justify your raid spot when every guild out there that is worth half a damn already knows the value of a disc priest in raid. The ones who post here disagreeing with your points are the same demographic of downs patients still trying to beat Mimiron normal mode for the first time. You can cure ignorance with a book, but it takes a gun to cure stupidity.

Btw, in regards to your crack on p3 about "show you a druid who spams HoTs every GCD and doesn't cry for mana, etc"
This is my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ecrown&n=Takae
I cast every GCD without fail, and I don't run out of mana. Min/Max is the only way to play.

[Shibba]

I'll ask you some questions then.

If you have borrowed time;
Which heals for more, 2 bubbles or a prayer of healing on 5 people?
A bubble or a penance on someone low giving devine aegis potential?
A bubble or a flash heal on someone under 50% giving devine aegis potential?
Which has more healing potential, one bubble or one prayer of mending?

As holy my renew has more healing potential than your bubbles, doesn't mean i spam renew to the exclusion of my specs other strengths.

ofc i flash or penance some one with 2k hp left thats not the question... you speak like i use ONLY shields while i use the mainly shields and not only.

im focusing on preventing dmg so:
its quiet simple, by the time i cast POH even greatly hasted i gimp other healers like holy who just land theyrs which is much more better and effective just a split sec after me stealing theyr heal.
sniping heals will make me look better on healing done while other healers will get alot of overheals, wasting mana and more dangerously time that they could spend actualy healing other ppl.
when somthing "bad happens" i allrdy see the incoming heals in my grid, and the druids hots start to kick in... what you suggest is me - healing in disc spec instead of shielding and thus being faster rendering druid hots or the poh of holy useless much less effective, if i wished to heal i would have stayed holy. its not about toping raid in 1 sec faster, for its about being rdy for next tantrum in time.

as for more healing potential yeah it does have great potential but you miss the big picture, i need bubbles get consumed to get mana back and i energize others, and ofc as i sayed i dont snipe steal other's heals...
by the time the druid and holy toped the raid i have my bubbles rdy for the next major incoming wave of damage... if i stayed healing then i couldnt make it in time.

so yeah throwing 2-3 shields and in between them throwing "hasted" heals is good strategy but its not the one discussed here.
with my strategy im concerned on preventing damage and not healing it, as soon as the big aoe landed i start prepign the raid for next one.
while the other healers toping the raid in 6 sec after tantrum im perping it for the next dmg income.

[zsun]

Agreed, thing is i formed this strategy when i wanted to raid heal as disc spec to equal and maybe outperform a holy if you can suggest better way how can i raid heal as disc and still achieve that high HPS to not look ridicules pls do so.
I was holy for along time untill pws became GCD and i know that in good hand holy can do massive ammounts of raid heals in 4-6 sec...
while holy sits for 5 seconds and waits for somthing bad to happen and then fixes it in 3 more seconds i achieve same thing in exactly 8 seconds...
if you look at it from my point of view holy raid healer "rests" for by the time i build up my shields...
In the end after 8 sec he healed for 30k raid wide and i prevented 30k raid wide cant see much difference here same as you noted above.

As for using the GCD's better i dont see a resting holy using his GCD's and no one complains

Yeah, although the overall effect within those 8 seconds are the same, I still prefer to be resting for 5 seconds then fixes something bad in 3 seconds. At least for me I prefer to heal with as little effort as possible while maximising the healing output. The reason I prefer to rest for 5 seconds is because I can utilise this free 5 seconds to pay more attention to things like DBM timers, tank's condition, even my own standing position in relation to the rest of the raid.

I really cannot suggest a definite way to raid heal as disc and perform such a high HPS whilst not looking ridiculous. I myself have little understanding of disc, hardly played one for more than a week, but I do know enough about them to tell you that using a bit less PWS, and more Penance, PoH (with borrowed time buff) is a bit more effective overall. It is also less stressful to play. Let other healers heal a bit more rather than trying to mitigate as much a possible. Yes I am implying that you are putting to much stress on yourself. Try focusing less on those raid frames and more on the raid environment itself. But if you feel your current style is fine, then yeah stick to it. I'm not saying your method is wrong, I'm just saying it's not the best.

[Shibba]

After reading first 6 pages of this thread, all i can say is Shibba is watching over this thread like over his own child or something xD

As for the entire mechanic, i can agree that shieldspamming might be potentially good on fights like thorim hardmode or freya hardmode or mimiron.

You stated yourself, you're a casual guild, ppl take random dmg, and sorry sir, but the failures of your raiding team make you think spamming shields is viable. In a well-progressing guild this doesn't happen. Thus as i wrote above the only fights i see this every being viable ina good guild, are the ones where aoe can kill someone. In every other fight i'm pretty confident you'd do a lot better staying away from this "healing" strategy.

well its my first post here, so im keeping close eye over it, especialy as it seems im the only one using this strategy...
hopefully we will be deeper into ulduar soon and i will see your point in game as well

[Shibba]

For what it's worth, if you want to maximise your "style" you should be stacking spell power not int and go 17 points into shadow.
3min shadow fiend will net you more return and you're not making use of most of your talent points anyway.

burning 3k mana in 5 sec will have to find a balance between the int% returns and the 3 min timer...
ill check it out and comment after i have more data on the 17 shadow for the 3 fiend.

[Shibba]

Yeah, although the overall effect within those 8 seconds are the same, I still prefer to be resting for 5 seconds then fixes something bad in 3 seconds. At least for me I prefer to heal with as little effort as possible while maximising the healing output. The reason I prefer to rest for 5 seconds is because I can utilise this free 5 seconds to pay more attention to things like DBM timers, tank's condition, even my own standing position in relation to the rest of the raid.

I really cannot suggest a definite way to raid heal as disc and perform such a high HPS whilst not looking ridiculous. I myself have little understanding of disc, hardly played one for more than a week, but I do know enough about them to tell you that using a bit less PWS, and more Penance, PoH (with borrowed time buff) is a bit more effective overall. It is also less stressful to play. Let other healers heal a bit more rather than trying to mitigate as much a possible. Yes I am implying that you are putting to much stress on yourself. Try focusing less on those raid frames and more on the raid environment itself. But if you feel your current style is fine, then yeah stick to it. I'm not saying your method is wrong, I'm just saying it's not the best.

heh well i will try spaming more "hastet" heals after shields and see how it works...
as for the mitigating as much as possible and stressing my self, im just damn worried that if i wont bubble as much as i can ppl will start droping like flies... :/ just a general feeling.

[Cloudchaser]

BoSanc does stack with Renewed Hope. I have personally confirmed this in-game for every minor patch since 3.1.

WRONG

Check out this official post: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=14214.0

[Shibba]

WRONG

Check out this official post: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=14214.0

this post is 3.0.2, we are talking about 3.1.0+

[Nesco]

WRONG

Check out this official post: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=14214.0

If he can confirm it ingame, then old patch notes don't matter. And this is quite easy to test too .

[m4ko]

The website you posted your log on is wrong.

Go here:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/L...?s=3158&e=3635

Then deactivate "Show totals" and deactivate all other healers except you and Scaleo. Then look at the graph. Look at the top-right which color fits which healer. You will see: Scaleo outperformed you over nearly the whole fight - yet at the bottom the bars tell you were double as good.

Also: The graph above shows heal-dps. Here Scaleo totally wrecked you nearly the complete fight. Yet at the bottom your Heal-DPS is way higher - 80% higher.

[Xar]

The graph on Wow Meter Online doesn't take absorbed damage in account, while the table below does. This is a known issue and I reported it a while back on their forum, here is the link and reply from dev: http://forums.worldoflogs.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=400

I'm discipline and always in top 3 of healers if not on top, check our guild logs if you want: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/5269/

I use a different strategy since I'm most often tank healing, I try to keep the tank shielded and topped off with a flash heal now and then, keep penance for emergency burst healing and bubble the raid when I know raid damage is incoming. Also I try to bubble people that just got hit by a fireball for instance at razorscale, so when they get hit twice they survive.

Shibba your style is interesting to say the least but their are better ways I think, don't forget how much healing you can put out with combo's like inner focus+divine hymn and Power Infusion+chaining PoH. Bubbling is great to smooth out that first spike of incoming raid damage but you need to heal as well. A good strategy in 25 mans when you know raid damage is incoming bubble up 2 groups, hit power infusion and chain PoH the other 3 groups. Your highest goal should be the least deaths and not numbers on a meter.

Anyways my healing style differs a lot on circumstance, 10 or 25 man etc....that's what so great about priests, flexibility.