Shadow Haste Cap

[Nezoia]

We're not playing a lag-free simulator that only renders stationary fights as well, so personal experience matters a lot more than theorycraft Ragnuff

The last example I saw of this, was the math heads at EJ calculated Tun (Ensidia druid CL) was doing more damage than possible in their maths

[Yon]

Yes, and in terms of casting speed, haste is worth less per point over time, due to it being exponential, and not linear.

That's not misunderstanding, that's basic math. 0-1% haste increases the cast-time speed more than 19-20%.

Of course, I already established that fact in my opening paragraph. If it increased the cast time speed by the same amount we would end up with 0s duration casts at 100% haste instead of half-duration casts. This is where you went wrong, however. As the dear elemental shaman states below you, as shown haste is mathematically still worth the same amount per point -- which you contradicted.

I do agree with Ragnuff regarding the unrelated limiting factors such as lag, reaction time and low fps situations. They will devalue haste, sadly.

[Nezoia]

I never stated anything but that

f(x) = 3 / (1 + (x / 100))

Was a exponential function. So I don't care how much you misunderstood the concept, that function is not linear.

[Yon]

I never stated anything but that

f(x) = 3 / (1 + (x / 100))

Was a exponential function. So I don't care how much you misunderstood the concept, that function is not linear.

It is not. But if you backtrack to the first page you see that Worshaka asks about the reasoning behind this so-called cap (which I myself did earlier), and you finally provided the reasoning, which should have been posted in the first post, to be honest, since this 650 haste rating cap seems to be no 'general opinion' anyone has heard of.

And the reasoning was this: "Well, the most obvious reason is that haste is exponential. So it WILL be less worth per point the more you get of it.
". So this reasoning is the whole basis of this thread and your idea of a 650 haste rating cap, so obviously we are interested in exploring this statement. So you are arguing why haste above 650 isn't worth anything and using the exponentiality of the real time casting function as the argument to why. Reasonable people like Worshaka and myself question this approach.

[Deleted]

That doesn't make the value of haste in terms of decreasing cast a linear function. The function stays exponential.

New Casting Time = (Base Casting Time)/(1 + (% Spell Haste / 100))

It's true that the function is not linear, but if you draw it you will notice that in the 0-30% haste area there are no steep changes in the curve. The exponential nature of the function will not show untill you reach 70-100% haste, which is quite unrealistic anyway. That's why I still have no faith in this magical number of 650 haste meaning anything, no theory shows a clear threshold there. I still think the biggest effect is in how the haste fits in our rotation (the 5.5sec MB CD). With the 4pc bonus my MF is about 2.5sec, so after 2 of them I still have 0.5sec CD left on MB, which is really annoying and doesn't really have an optimal solution.

[Strykzor]

@Nezoia
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rock&n=Strykie

Sup dipshit, u might want to update your bookmark on my old character.

[oOJJOo]

I think the best Haste Value is at 26,67 % (874,5 Haste), thats the Point where you get 2 MF + 1 GCD in 1 MB CD. (The GCD is to renew VT,DP,SW:P or cast Shadowfiend,SW,etc)
Every good Raid should have 1 Elemental Shaman to place the 5% Haste Totem. (-5% = 21,67% / 710,55)
The 4P T8,5 Bonus brings another 240 Haste and has the highest effect if you cast MF,GCD,MF or GCD,MF,MF. (-240 = 470,55 / 14,35 %)
So you will need 470,55 Haste on your Equip if there are no server lags ^^.
I have some small lags, thats why i'm actually between 490-520 Haste and it works perfect for me.

My Shadow

cYa JJ

[Lostprophet]

You get 8%!! Haste in a Raid , Shamans(Not particulary Elemental) gives 5% and Retadins or Boomkins gives you another 3%, so looks like that im with 318 Haste are in a perfect Situation :/

Couldn test it really last ID (Vezax.......) Will see this ID how it works out for me..

[oOJJOo]

Sure ?.. i think it's not stacking.

But if you're right.. 1% = 32,79 Haste Rating, so you would need at least 372,18 Haste.

Edit: I thought.. "maybe you are wrong and they are stacking".. so i asked some guys and all sayed that it isn't stacking .

[Qualia]

They (Swift Retribution and Totem of Wrath's haste effects) do stack.

[Nezoia]

It's true that the function is not linear, but if you draw it you will notice that in the 0-30% haste area there are no steep changes in the curve. The exponential nature of the function will not show untill you reach 70-100% haste, which is quite unrealistic anyway.

I'm aware of that, but Worshaka likes discussing semantics.

[Nezoia]

So the conclusion after 4 pages is nobody have a flying fuck idea about haste stacking to 1000+ is good or bad, and everybody is entitled to their own opinions.

I'll just go with the opinion I share with the Ensidia priests then.

[Deleted]

1% of 2.5 = 0.025

1% of 2 = 0.02

0.025 > 0.02

Nuff said.

[notanarrogantwizard]

You are desperately looking for replies, so I will help you.

Your finally realized something, every decent raid shadowpriest with half a brain already knew since like patch 2.4. Yes, there are soft hastecaps and yes, there is no point in wasting Itemization Points in Haste between these caps and YES, if you would try to get to the next cap, you would end up with very low crit so it is pointless, to try this before 3.2-equip comes available.

I congratulate you on this accomplishment.

Of course, the correct information given in this thread clearly outweigh the arrogant bullcrap, your other 4300 posts consist of. And you managed to create these in less then 13 months.

We all know, you suck at this game and you obvoiusly suck at real life, too, as you have the time to browse these forums and post all this shit

I registered just to say you this, it was about time.

I don't care, if my grammar and/or spelling is correct.

[Strykzor]

I lol'd

Also
Crit is equal to Spellpower in terms of DPS (imo)
Haste makes your dps go down after u reach the 1st soft cap, 2nd soft cap makes it go up, but not as much.

[Ragnuff]

Haste makes your dps go down after u reach the 1st soft cap

In all honesty, i do not believe that MORE of any damage increasing stat (SP, crit, haste, int, ...) will ever REDUCE your damage output, no matter what kind of cap there might or might not be. Worst case, it will do nothing for you (like +hit over the cap).
Replacing one stat with another stat could reduce (or increase) your damage output.

[Nezoia]

I registered just to say you this, it was about time.

Thank you, thank you, it's always nice to see one have fans.

Come by with some cans of beer, and you can get my autograph as well if you like.

[Casimir]

I registered just for this subject, very interesting.
Myself i got 685 haste unbuffed atm, and still without the 4p bonus =(
I didn't even really stacked haste, it's just i followed the best items available to me.

Now that i got this much haste i was thinking of getting enough of it, to fill an extra 2tick mindflay before the mindblast. And having very short gcd's is just very nice imo.
Only boss i found that i got too much haste was at general vezax, standing in the black stuff. 0.6 sec mindblast =/ that's 0.4 sec worth of nothing. But thats atm just 1 boss i think.
I really need to get the 4p set bonus before i can judge if it works or not with filling in an extra mindflay. Only concern is getting to much haste combined with Bloodlust, coming under de 1sec castime of mindblast or vampire touch.

[Worshaka]

I NEVER stuff up in PvE, if I do, its a 1 off thing.
If i cant do decent damage as the class i play, why should i play it?

You my friend are in need of some special help....

I NEVER stuff up except sometimes... well that's not never is it. Any I doubt the best spriest in the world (which isn't you by the way, shock horror) would claim they are perfect. I guess that goes towards how egotistical you are.

Our damage is fine... if you're 200dps behind the absolute best who cares? Oh you do because that meaningless dps meter isn't stroking that huge ego I refered to above. It's people like you who prioritise dps over getting out of Yogg clouds that causes wipes. And while you'll never admit that to yourself coz you were the last one dead, you infact were the cause of the drama to begin with.

[Worshaka]

@Worshaka

http://clausjoergensen.dk/media/files/spellhaste.png

If you know anything of maths, you'd know it's not a linear function.

I actually know maths quite well but I admit im a little rusty because I haven't fully studied for quite some years.

I don't dispute the formula is exponetial in nature but the effect on dps isn't expoential as one of the posts pointed out. This is very similar to diminishing returns on armor that actually has a linear relationship with time to live. Just because the calculation behind the mechanic is exponential it doesn't mean the effect is.

Again i'd like to see more than just a graph to understand this concept, but at the moment I just see a linear relationship in real terms.