Ret pally Buffs?!

[Jugger]

* Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 13% of AP + 6.5% of Spell Power ] Holy damage (down from [ 15% of AP + 7.8% of Spell Power ]) and has a new effect - Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

This was never a Ret Ability and it still prolly won't be, not over Seal of Command.

* Vindication now Gives the Paladin's damaging melee attacks a chance to reduce the target's attack power by 23/46 for 10 sec.

Seriously? If this doesn't scale with level it just became totally pointless. BTW, there is NOTHING that says this scales with level. Not even in the talent build is there anything that says it scales. the 2 point pay in say by 46, nothing else.


* Crusader Strike now causes 75% weapon damage. (Down from 110%)

So let me get this straight, you take a whole 2 seconds off the ability < 4 seconds from 6 seconds or roughly 33% of the time frame.> and 35% of the damage SO how is this a buff? 2% more damage.. maybe?


* The Art of War now reduces the cast time of your next Flash of Light or Exorcism ability by 0.75 sec everytime your melee attacks critically hit.

The only good thing I see out of this.


* Judgement of the Wise now affects your damaging Judgement spells (Old - All Judgement spells) and Replenishment effect now regens 1% of the maximum mana per 5 sec. (Down from 0.25% every sec)

I can't even begin to do the math on this so I can't say for sure but it just kinda sounds like more words diffrent effect for the same results.


* Eye for an Eye now causes 10% (down from 20%) of the damage taken to the attacker as well.

A lot of people QQed about this. Honestly I never even bothered to pay into it. Most melee classes don;t crit high enough to make it worth it. Even a 10k crit = a grand 2k damage to themselves minus resil and damage reduction talents.


* Seal of Command has been redesigned - All melee attacks deal [ 36% of mw ] to [ 36% of MW ] additional Holy damage. Lasts 30 min. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing [ 8% of AP + 13% of Spell Power + 19% of mw ] to [ 8% of AP + 13% of Spell Power + 19% of MW ] Holy damage.

Okay so I lied a little bit. 2 good things. Still it's not worth the trade off of nerfs if you ask me.

[Jasunizer]

* Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 13% of AP + 6.5% of Spell Power ] Holy damage (down from [ 15% of AP + 7.8% of Spell Power ]) and has a new effect - Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

This was never a Ret Ability and it still prolly won't be, not over Seal of Command.
[b]

Do u understand that Vengeance will be the BOSS seal from now on?
(Check the tier 1 holy talent : Seals of the Pure)

[SolaronTich]

* Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 13% of AP + 6.5% of Spell Power ] Holy damage (down from [ 15% of AP + 7.8% of Spell Power ]) and has a new effect - Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

This was never a Ret Ability and it still prolly won't be, not over Seal of Command.
[b]

Funny, because its always been under the Ret tab.

And of course if you take a look at the t9 Ret libram (or at least the placeholder)...

[Krekko]

* Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 13% of AP + 6.5% of Spell Power ] Holy damage (down from [ 15% of AP + 7.8% of Spell Power ]) and has a new effect - Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

This was never a Ret Ability and it still prolly won't be, not over Seal of Command.

I stopped reading after this statement since the OP obviously does not know anything.

[Ronark]

* Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 13% of AP + 6.5% of Spell Power ] Holy damage (down from [ 15% of AP + 7.8% of Spell Power ]) and has a new effect - Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

This was never a Ret Ability and it still prolly won't be, not over Seal of Command.

Read the patch notes........

* Vindication now Gives the Paladin's damaging melee attacks a chance to reduce the target's attack power by 23/46 for 10 sec.

Seriously? If this doesn't scale with level it just became totally pointless. BTW, there is NOTHING that says this scales with level. Not even in the talent build is there anything that says it scales. the 2 point pay in say by 46, nothing else.

This is where common sense comes into play kids! :P

* Crusader Strike now causes 75% weapon damage. (Down from 110%)

So let me get this straight, you take a whole 2 seconds off the ability < 4 seconds from 6 seconds or roughly 33% of the time frame.> and 35% of the damage SO how is this a buff? 2% more damage.. maybe?

Actually, you gain 25% more damage per minute with the new CS than the old one.

* Judgement of the Wise now affects your damaging Judgement spells (Old - All Judgement spells) and Replenishment effect now regens 1% of the maximum mana per 5 sec. (Down from 0.25% every sec)

I can't even begin to do the math on this so I can't say for sure but it just kinda sounds like more words diffrent effect for the same results.

All Replenish effects were nerfed- The change from "All Judgements" to "Damaging Judgements" is a revision on tooltip to clarify.

* Eye for an Eye now causes 10% (down from 20%) of the damage taken to the attacker as well.

A lot of people QQed about this. Honestly I never even bothered to pay into it. Most melee classes don;t crit high enough to make it worth it. Even a 10k crit = a grand 2k damage to themselves minus resil and damage reduction talents.

Was good, well, TOO good against certain classes (i.e. Rogues) and was changed.... it is now useless.

* Seal of Command has been redesigned - All melee attacks deal [ 36% of mw ] to [ 36% of MW ] additional Holy damage. Lasts 30 min. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing [ 8% of AP + 13% of Spell Power + 19% of mw ] to [ 8% of AP + 13% of Spell Power + 19% of MW ] Holy damage.

Okay so I lied a little bit. 2 good things. Still it's not worth the trade off of nerfs if you ask me.

Seal of Command is only good for PvP and short PvE mobs that die fast (i.e. Soloing and AE packs).

Still, JoC looses it's burst with always criting on a Stunned mob, so thats a nerf to its Judgement.

[Beefpotpie]

holy troll

[Apostolic]

* Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 13% of AP + 6.5% of Spell Power ] Holy damage (down from [ 15% of AP + 7.8% of Spell Power ]) and has a new effect - Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

lol math looks like this according to me stats raid buffed
(((13%AP +6.5%SP)x5)+33%WD)
so lets pop out some numbers here
AP = 6,000
SP = 1,800
WD = 2,300

((6,000 x0.13)+(1,800x0.065)x5)+(2300x.33)
((780)+(117)x5)+(759)
(897x5)+759
4485x1.15

5157 on Dot/Tick Every 3 Sec (With T9 it can crit) =1719 DPS
759 On Melee Swing

Seal of Command =
2300x0.36

828 On every Melee Swing

So my question for the NUB is. WTF is Seal of Command going to make up for the 5157 Damage from the Dot Tick every 3 Sec?

[SolaronTich]

I can guarantee you Seal twisting will be a loss of DPS. Wasting 2 GCDs and 1100 mana every ~12-14 seconds is not gonna fly for dps, especially for such a moderate change in swing damage.

[Krekko]

With each damn patch people want to make seal twisting viable. Some people come up with this crazy concept and idea to make it seem appealing.

Get over it, seal twisting will NOT be viable.

Do not even ever let it cross your mind again until blizzard themselves says

"PALADINS, NOW WITH SEAL TWISTING!"

Between losing the GCD, and the mana cost to maintain it it will not be practical. Get over it.

[Ronark]

Hmm.... do I want an extra 33% Weapon damage as Holy damage and double crit damage.... or an extra 36% weapon damage....

Oh the choices!

[Adamson]

not to mention judgement isn't off the GCD anymore, which was critical for seal twisting.

[SolaronTich]

Does "crit for double damage" mean:

Normal hit: 1000
Critical hit: 4000

or

Normal hit: 1000
Critical hit: 2000
(Melee crit mechanics)

O_o

[Apostolic]

OK Crit works like this

Spell Crit is x1.5
Melee Crit is x2

Thus
5k Exorcism Crit would hit for 5000x1.5 =7.5K
5K Crusader Crit would hit for 5000x2 = 10k

What they are saying is that the Judgment is counted as a Melee Crit

[Adamson]

OK Crit works like this

Spell Crit is x1.5
Melee Crit is x2

Thus
5k Exorcism Crit would hit for 5000x1.5 =7.5K
5K Crusader Crit would hit for 5000x2 = 10k

What they are saying is that the Judgment is counted as a Melee Crit

Judgement already counts as a melee crit as it's considered a ranged physical attack much like hunter ranged abilities.

[Apostolic]

Yep, I knew that. However others may not, thus their thinking in "Double Crit" is
1000x2x2=4000

When Double Crit only means
1000x2 =2000

and Crit is
1000x1.5 =1500

[SolaronTich]

That's what I thought...simply clarifying that the seal proc when fully stacked would be considered as a melee attack and not a spell as it is now.

[Ronark]

Yep, I knew that. However others may not, thus their thinking in "Double Crit" is
1000x2x2=4000

When Double Crit only means
1000x2 =2000

and Crit is
1000x1.5 =1500

So the 5 stack Double crit would only benefit Exorcism then?

IMO they would have stated that when they define "double crit" I can see it working out both ways, although having all attacks do X*2*2 is more likely: We'll just have to wait for the PTR.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

Read the patch notes........
This is where common sense comes into play kids! :P
Actually, you gain 25% more damage per minute with the new CS than the old one.
All Replenish effects were nerfed- The change from "All Judgements" to "Damaging Judgements" is a revision on tooltip to clarify.
Was good, well, TOO good against certain classes (i.e. Rogues) and was changed.... it is now useless.
Seal of Command is only good for PvP and short PvE mobs that die fast (i.e. Soloing and AE packs).

Still, JoC looses it's burst with always criting on a Stunned mob, so thats a nerf to its Judgement.

JoC hits like a kitten's paw right now anyway. I was getting weird numbers like 75% or so of what JoV would do. They oughtta bring back the instacrits if it's gonna be so weak, did they really need to nerf the damage and the gimmick at the same time? Giving back Exorcism in PvP was needed to offset the burst loss of Crusader Strike, but nerfing our seal/judgement damage brings us right back under the mark required to kill folk... I'm hoping there's more on the way.

[Apostolic]

Wow some people need to learn the mechanics of WoW.

Crits ARE x1.5
Double Crits ARE x2

Have been, always will be. There are talents that increase the damage of Crits by 100%. The one that comes to mind is the DK Racial. They are the only ones that I can recall off the top of my head that will get Nx2 in the game.

Edit:
And its Double Crit on SPELS for the DK. Like I stated previously

Spell Crit is x1.5
Melee Crit is x2

[benbraco]

* Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 13% of AP + 6.5% of Spell Power ] Holy damage (down from [ 15% of AP + 7.8% of Spell Power ]) and has a new effect - Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

lol math looks like this according to me stats raid buffed
(((13%AP +6.5%SP)x5)+33%WD)
so lets pop out some numbers here
AP = 6,000
SP = 1,800
WD = 2,300

((6,000 x0.13)+(1,800x0.065)x5)+(2300x.33)
((780)+(117)x5)+(759)
(897x5)+759
4485x1.15

5157 on Dot/Tick Every 3 Sec (With T9 it can crit) =1719 DPS
759 On Melee Swing

Seal of Command =
2300x0.36

828 On every Melee Swing

So my question for the NUB is. WTF is Seal of Command going to make up for the 5157 Damage from the Dot Tick every 3 Sec?

Your math are bad...

vengeance dot is

[(6,000 x0.13)+(1,800x0.065)]x5= 4485 over 15 sec so 897 every 3 sec

Then you have seals of the pure (x1,15), crusade (x1,03orx1,06) vengeance, (x1,09), aura (x1,03), debuff +13% magic damage