SS + FoL = HoT QQ

[praetora]

The heal over time is complete garbage. Everytime you cast Flash of Light on a target with Sacred Shield, the healing over time get overwritted..

The current mechanic is pretty much shit.

did you read my post?

[Skollvaldr]

funny that nobody gets that the hot was not put in for pve at all. its simply too weak for that.
its a pvp buff, esp. to rets. at the same time it's supposed to make the decision between exo and a heal + hot + hot harder.

i'm a pve player, btw. so keep your flames á la "you damn pvpers ruin pve" to yourselves. :-*

[Lightstrike]

The heal over time is complete garbage. Everytime you cast Flash of Light on a target with Sacred Shield, the healing over time get overwritted..

The current mechanic is pretty much shit.

Ever thought you might be using it wrong?

Like the guy posted, it's not bad at all.

Trying to force things to work your way when the mechanics are against you is stupid.

Paladins healers cried for a hot and being better at raid healing, you have both and because you are still trying to play the way you used to it isn't that effective.

This is the same type of thing as paladin tanks using seal of wisdom or righteousness as their main tanking seal and using a spellpower weapon. Move with the times.

You now have decent raid healing ability while helping maintank heal.. it is a huge buff and probably makes paladin healers the most powerful now all being considered. If you still wanna be the type of healer who spams FoL on the tank, so be it, but don't complain that the new mechanic doesn't suit it..


PvP buff, perhaps, but I would disagree it was put in solely for PvP, it would definitely have some PvE connotations considering all the crying out for HoTs and viable raid healing mechanics.

[fyske]

Currently, the way the healing over time is tied to a really akward mechanic.

The Paladin is punished for casting heals if they happen to be weaker than the previous one. It should not. Instead, it should `reward` the Paladin if he/she happens to cast more than one Flash of Light on a target with Sacred Shield still active.

Of course, it's good for a Paladin if they happen to do one critical Flash of Light, since it would provide a crazy big hot on a tank and decide to leave it there. But it can discouraging when you know your next Flash of Light reduce the effectiveness of your current hot.

Instead, the mechanic should allow a stack of the Flash of Light healing over time effect with a cap.

This would allow (for example) Paladins to get maximum efficienty over the Flash of Light healing over time effect, even if he/she has to spend some more mana for it.

Let's show a few examples of the current and proposed mechanics, in all the following examples, we'll assume the Paladin has 2500 spellpower, 3/3 Healing Light, 0/5 Divinity, 0/3 Imp. Devotion Aura to keep it simple.

EX#1
- Your Flash of Light critically heal your target for 6144.
- Your Flash of Light's hot will now heal the target for 6144 over 12 sec.

NOTE - All is good, the Paladin has a big hot on the target.

EX#2
00'00''00 Your Flash of Light critically heal your target for 6144 and will heal an additionnal 6144 over 12 sec.
00'01''00 You begin to cast Flash of Light.
00'02''50 Your Flash of Light critically heal your target for 4043.
00'02''50 Your previous Flash of Light's hot is removed.
00'02''50 Your new Flash of Light's hot will now heal the target for 4043 over 12 sec.
00'05''50 Your Flash of Light's hot heals the target for 1011. (1/4 of 4043)
00'14''50 Your Flash of Light's hot fade.

NOTE - The Paladin has been punished for casting a second Flash of Light since it's weaker than the first. Also, the timer between healing ticks reseted, which prevented the first big hot from healing anything at all.again.

As said above, the current mechanic punish the Paladin for casting a weaker Flash of Light, casting under Divine Plea, and so on. Also, in a PVP situation if the target has a Mortal Strike-type effect, the Paladin is punished TWICE. The hot applied only count the final healing done (already 50% penalized) and the healing over time effect get punished again while ticking.

New Mechanic
Let's suppose that Flash of Light has a reworked mechanic, the Paladin's target obviously still has Sacred Shield up when casting Flash of Light on it:

EX#1
00'00''00 Your Flash of Light heal your target for 1011 and will heal an additionnal 1011 over 12 sec.
00'00''00 You begin to cast Flash of Light.
00'01''50 Your Flash of Light heal your target for 1023 and will heal an additionnal 2034 (1011+1023) over 12 sec.
00'02''50 Your begin to cast Flash of Light.
00'03''00 Your Flash of Light's hot heals target for 508. (1/4 of 2034)
00'04''00 Your Flash of Light heal your target for 6223 and will heal an additionnal 4148 over 12 sec. (the healing over time effect cannot exceed 100% of Flash of Light's maximum non-critical healing value)
00'06''00 Your Flash of Light's hot heals target for 1037. (1/4 of 4148)
00'16''00 Your Flash of Light's hot fade.

NOTE - So what happen exactly here? The paladin's first cast is a very weak Flash of Light and first apply a hot of 1011. The paladin then cast a second Flash of Light which heals for 1023, refresh the duration of the hot and adds 1023 to the total healing value of the hot. After this, the Paladin decide to cast yet another Flash of Light, this one however is huge and critically heal the target for 6223. Since the "new mechanic" would limit the hot to 100% of Flash of Light's maximum non-critical healing value, it cannot go over 4148 and would prevent too much healing on the target. And since the hot is limited to target who has Sacred Shield active on them, this would avoid the hot from going "op".

This would reward if they decide to keep casting Flash of Light (in both PVE and PVP situation) if they happen to not get a critical heal or the target has a Mortal Strike-type effect on them. Obviously, it has some cons to it, as in that if you want a maximum heal over time effect, you may have to spend some more mana for it. But this would avoid overwritting a big hot if you have to cast a few more Flash of Light.

[nwo]

funny that nobody gets that the hot was not put in for pve at all. its simply too weak for that.
its a pvp buff

Yeah, I was just thinking about that myself today while I was PVPing and thinking about wtf I'm gonna do when my current spec gets nerfed to the ground in the next patch. However, once I thought about having that FoL HoT ticking in PVP, I felt a lot better because it will:
-save me some cast time
-more time to cleanse/offensive spells and less opportunity for the opponent to interrupt
-save me some (not a lot) of mana
-give me more slightly more mobility

I know this HoT doesn't mean a whole lot, but it will certainly soften the blow of the upcoming paladin nerfs.

[fyske]

I'm just wondering who is to say it's not working correctly... why does the HoT have to work in the best possible way it can, there is nothing to say it needs to tie in with every other proc or ability we have, tbh I think some people are just never happy and want everything their own way.

Read my post (above) about the "not working correctly".

[Lightstrike]

Read my post (above) about the "not working correctly".

And who is to say that the way you expect it to work is the correct way?

Maybe you just have to think of it more like a healing version of balance druid rotation...

You cast FoL until you crit, once you crit you switch to holy light until the HoT wears off and start casting FoL again until it crits.

I don't see what is wrong with that play style.. sure on my balance druid I'd love it if I could have eclipse up 100% of the time and reap all of the benefits... but that would be overpowered, and considering that paladins aren't behind other healers to the extreme that they are being left out of raids, this is nothing but a buff in whatever form it takes.

[fyske]

You cast FoL until you crit, once you crit you switch to holy light until the HoT wears off and start casting FoL again until it crits.

Forcing the Paladin to cast Flash of Light until it critically heal is counter-productive and is the complete opposite on making sure Paladins manage their mana better and to make Flash of Light more useful (especially along with the Beacon of Light change).

[Skyro]

Ok, it's simple. Remember BoL now INCLUDES overheals.

So it goes like this

Beacon Tank
SS Tank
FoL Tank
All incoming damage should now be healer on a different target. It sounds weird but its true. FoL doesn't carry through the beacon so it's not overwritten and the overheals count so the tank receives the full amount of damage.

Saying that, screw the HoT. I'll have my chain HLs back pwease.

[Nangz]

Out of curiosity, will multiple pallies' HoT's munch each other? Or will a new FoL only munch your HoT? I don't play a pally, but I was curious what the mechanic was as it is on the PTR.

I would hope it will be smoothed out as it does seem semi broken at the moment...but hopefully it gets sorted out.

no ur done talking after ur first fail post uhhhh HoL and SS fail

[Sunstrikeisretlawl]

I really saw this as more of a PvP change since most people I know who play holy are usually casting HL, over FoL. But regardless, I like this change, I don't think it's game breaking. I can't even log in to live and play the paladin the same, it feels alien, hell, the whole game does, this patch finally feels like there is some balance out there. But I'm straying from the subject. I like this change, it was needed.

[Hunterwep]

BoL got removed ages ago...

And wtf is SS? Sinister Strike, Scourge Strike?

Soul Stone

[Lightstrike]

CSJen didnt make the failpost you tard.

Forcing the Paladin to cast Flash of Light until it critically heal is counter-productive and is the complete opposite on making sure Paladins manage their mana better and to make Flash of Light more useful (especially along with the Beacon of Light change).

I see, and how is this different from moonkin and eclipse? I'd love to spam starfire with +30% crit chance all of the time, but I can't..

So why is it so hard to accept that there is a viable way of healing that may involve casting FoL until it crits. I think you're stuck in the past and ignorant to change tbh.

There is nothing stopping you from playing how you do in 3.1, but you won't get the best out of the FoL buff, seriosuly adapt and overcome and stop crying.

[bowflexinbrah]

so why are they ruining the unique healing style paladins had? i liek healing and have each healing class at 80 and i love to be able to switch to another class and change it up when it gets boring. now my paladin is more like my shaman having to gear mp5 instead of int and having a direct heal that places a hot on someone ><

[Lightstrike]

Because those without a second healing character cried they had no HoTs.

Paladins gained variation at the cost of other things..

As far as I know, and as far as I am concerned, stacking int was never supposed to be a viable gearing solution for paladins and it's a good thing that it was nerfed.

[TanAxys]

it's just another case of homiginization.

now palys have to gear like every other healer. Kind of dumb, but whatever. There's still no reason for palys to have to wear caster plate, so we'll just keep on ganking whoever else has the best toys, if it isn't us. At least we didn't get some dumb ass Spirit issue to deal with.

I think the answer will be finding a MP5 per minute number. As in, if the fight lasts 5 minutes you will need X MP5 to aviod OOM. Once we have that, we can just grab the best MP5 pieces to get that number, and then the rest will be same as it ever was. I think the biggest change in all will be for each paly to find his comfortable Int/mana, with gems and enchants. After that gemming/enchanting for +spell power to get bigger FoL/HoTs will be the way to go instead of just stacking Int to oblivion.

LoH works just fine through Bacon, so that will be a new regen tool. We just got a new mandatory glyph, that's all. [Glyph of Divinity], [Glyph of Holy Light] become mandatory. 3rd will probably change depending on the fight, and gear of course, [Glyph of Seal of Wisdom], or [Glyph of Seal of Light]. We even get a mandatory minor glyph in [Glyph of Lay on Hands].

No reason to QQ about anything, just find a new way of doing things and let everyone QQ about you.

[fyske]

CSJen didnt make the failpost you tard.
I see, and how is this different from moonkin and eclipse? I'd love to spam starfire with +30% crit chance all of the time, but I can't..

So why is it so hard to accept that there is a viable way of healing that may involve casting FoL until it crits. I think you're stuck in the past and ignorant to change tbh.

There is nothing stopping you from playing how you do in 3.1, but you won't get the best out of the FoL buff, seriosuly adapt and overcome and stop crying.

It's different from Eclipse. You're still DPSing, you're not wasting mana there. It's still damage hence it's NOT WASTED MANA, if you happen to keep casting Flash of Light until it critically heal (even if the tank is full health) you are WASTING mana. The difference there, with the alternative mechanic described, you only need to cast one Flash of Light to make sure it's the best possible (which is pretty average) without having to worry whatever or not your Flash of Light is going to critically heal or not.

Also how is that being stuck in the past? The post also details how the current mechanic is simply akward and can be VERY unrewarding at times, if you still don't understand this, read the post again.

The healing over time looks nice at first but, again is not that great. It's apparent in PVE when you THINK about it, and it's important in PVP implication where the HOT may as well not be there if you are fighting against a class with healing reduction effects.

[Lightstrike]

I see, and how is that different from holy paladins currently spamming FoL/HL on the tank? paladins already do a high percentage of overheal anyway. While this doesn't help matters it certainly doesn't hinder them to a noticeable degree.
Waiting until you crit is just one way, you could just use it once crit or not and then use Holy light with bacon up.
It shouldn't be a worry since it's a bonus if it crits, which is how it should be. A crit is a bonus and I think a lot of paladins have lost sight of that.

I'm responding to various comments, not just the OP, and the consensus is that the change to FoL needs to be a huge, major buff and be extremely powerful in all rotations and specs. This is not the case.

[fyske]

I see, and how is that different from holy paladins currently spamming FoL/HL on the tank? paladins already do a high percentage of overheal anyway. While this doesn't help matters it certainly doesn't hinder them to a noticeable degree.
Waiting until you crit is just one way, you could just use it once crit or not and then use Holy light with bacon up.
It shouldn't be a worry since it's a bonus if it crits, which is how it should be. A crit is a bonus and I think a lot of paladins have lost sight of that.

I'm responding to various comments, not just the OP, and the consensus is that the change to FoL needs to be a huge, major buff and be extremely powerful in all rotations and specs. This is not the case.

Let's say the Paladin wish to keep Flash of Light's HOT up on the tank, he/she first cast Flash of Light. He/she critically heal and heals for more than 100% of Flash of Light's maximum non-critical healing value, so he/she know that the HOT has reached the cap.

Once the HOT is soon to fade, the Paladin heal the tank a single time with Flash of Light. Since the first heal (the one that applied the HOT) healed for over the capped value, he/she knows that only one Flash of Light is necessary and will cast it, refreshing the HOT's duration without touching anything else.

This also allows the Paladin to make sure the HOT is at maximum capability even if the Paladin has to cast 2 or 3 Flash of Light under Divine Plea. Of course, it means spending more mana, but it means the Paladin control it more and will probably be able to guess a lot faster if the HOT is maxed or not.

Also, the proposed mechanic in my post is far from "huge" or "extremely powerful". It allows more control over the HOT and put a hard cap on it to avoid some crazy situations.

[Lightstrike]

Yeah but you're still not getting my point..

Why should you have the right to have a huge HoT every time, i know we're trying to get rid of RNG a bit, but I think that a crit FoL should heal for more than a normal one.. I don't see why you think Paladins just deserve to have the crit version or equivilent no matter what.

I think what you are suggesting currently is more along the realms of balance, if you are suggesting what I think you are, and that is.. if you get a good FoL that gives a big HoT, you should be able to extend it with a new FoL before it rolls off to an extent, perhaps 2 extensions before it overwrites it with a new HoT. If its a not so good HoT, then you let it roll off and try again.. that I would be fine with, but simply letting them stack up and just naturally be a large hot sort of like an ever rolling lifebloom seems silly to me, not to mention boring.