Improving Crusader Strike pt. 1

[shrappnel]

This has been an ongoing topic for awhile now.
CRUSADER STRIKE is a boring-ass skill!
With the up-coming 3.2 patch, I'm not sure how it's going to work out with it's 4-second CD. I tested my Pally on the PTR for about 5min ( it was buggy as hell :S) and it was even more FCFS than what we currently are at IMO.
I do like the change to SoCorruption
But I digress.
CRUSADER STRIKE is a boring-ass skill! It will deal 95-100% weapon damage. Period.
I was on my downtime while standing duty and I came up with this:

Crusader Strike: An instant attack that deals 75% weapon damage (w/out talents) and applies the Mark of the Crusader on the target, reducing the next healing spell cast on or by the target by 30%.

NOW, before the flaming begins:

*YES, it's a Mortal Strike-ish debuff, making it more PvP viable.
*It will only reduce the NEXT healing spell cast ON that target or BY that target by 30%. (Judgement of Light, SPriest heals, etc. will NOT remove the debuff)
*A new Retribution talent that further increases the effect of this debuff by 10/20% and an additional 10/20% damage to Crusader Strike (but taking out the CS damage increase in Sanctity of Battle).
*It's only a suggestion.

The only way this would be better than Mortal Strike is that it will have more up-time, being that CS will be on a 4sec CD. -50% on one freakin heal. Doesn't sound too OP does it ?

This is NOT a QQ post or anything. I just wanted to share my thoughts.
Any suggestions or comments are appreciated.

Most classes spend their entire /played time wondering if they made a difference. Paladins don't have that problem.

[Einorge]

Imo ret palas don't need MS effect atm, cause their dmg is fine on it's own. Anyhow with the upcomming changes and nerfs, they might need it, but I srsly doubt blizz will give ret palas any kind of MS effect.

Anyway, loved your free thinking. BUFF RET PALAS srsly

[Astray]

I see a problem in your idea.
Blizz does not want to give ms to everyone, but this is something even more complicated than ms. Your idea + ArmsWarrior = the heal killer

The way arena will develope, with 3vs3 becoming what everyone will play and the changes to resilience healing will become more dominant and this would be the heal-destroyer. Giving a normal ms to ret would be less imbalanced than this, even if it was meant to be situationally weaker than ms.

[nwo]

According to your method, druid HoTs>CS MS effect and as of right now, druids are the biggest problems in PVP (arena) for anyone to beat so this wouldn't solve much.

[Tigercat]

You'll be frustrated with the shorter cooldown on it clogging up your GCDs soon enough. Unless of course you just enjoy losing dps to pop cooldowns /shrug

[Deleted]

what about if you change it to:

Crusader Strike: An instant attack that deals 75% weapon damage (w/out talents) and increases holy damage taken in the target by 10% for 10 secs.(this debuff affects only the paladin)?

[Astray]

what about if you change it to:

Crusader Strike: An instant attack that deals 75% weapon damage (w/out talents) and increases holy damage taken in the target by 10% for 10 secs.(this debuff affects only the paladin)?

More damage. No~Damage is okey.
CS effect should be something non-damaging.

[shrappnel]

I haven't really thought about the other mechanics of this 'suggested' debuff, but here are more on
'Mark of the Crusader':

*If a HOT is applied to the target with the debuff, it should reduce ALL the heals on that HOT.
*It should NOT be able to stack with certain MS-like debuffs.

I know Blizzard doesn't want all (or another) classes to have MS-like debuffs, but w/ the trend they
have going w/ the talents, it just seems proper (10% AP increase w/ Blood DK and Enh Shammy, Refreshment w/ Mage and Ret Pally, etc.).

EDIT: I agree, we don't need anymore freakin' damage, lol. THAT WILL BRING NERFS DAMNIT.
Just a bit more utility. I PvP every now and then, and if someone has even a bit of skill (1800+) i will get /facerolled, even w/ 4200AP, 28% crit, 500 resil, and I'm not too shabby either 8)

[Assist]

im not really sure how to approach this thread.

arent there enuff interrupts allready?

I am currently playing elem shaman and i feel im locked down alot of the time, my strength is "oh i got nuked down by an elemental shaman just coz no one had any focus on him"

if any one i say any one pays any attention to me im locked down most of the time unable to do what i am "supposed" to

i mean having dk and rogues and possibly warriors keeping me toned down to a silly point and then ALSO having Rets doing the same thing just couse they feel they dont have enuff against a healer!

i think a huge bit of this ret complaining is way to much tunnel vision.

if rets get the interrupts they want combined with dk rogue or warrior or maby even survival hunter how on earth am i supposed to be able to do anything as elem or resto.

im getting fed up with all this bitching Read and learn, there was a blue post where they borught enhancement to the subject, if a singel enhance shaman can beat a singel healer, then a healer with 2 meele on him would go down without a chance.

Dont only care for your own all the time thats my point.

[Baabinator]

im not really sure how to approach this thread.

arent there enuff interrupts allready?

I am currently playing elem shaman and i feel im locked down alot of the time, my strength is "oh i got nuked down by an elemental shaman just coz no one had any focus on him"

if any one i say any one pays any attention to me im locked down most of the time unable to do what i am "supposed" to

i mean having dk and rogues and possibly warriors keeping me toned down to a silly point and then ALSO having Rets doing the same thing just couse they feel they dont have enuff against a healer!

i think a huge bit of this ret complaining is way to much tunnel vision.

if rets get the interrupts they want combined with dk rogue or warrior or maby even survival hunter how on earth am i supposed to be able to do anything as elem or resto.

im getting fed up with all this bitching Read and learn, there was a blue post where they borught enhancement to the subject, if a singel enhance shaman can beat a singel healer, then a healer with 2 meele on him would go down without a chance.

Dont only care for your own all the time thats my point.

QFT, respect from another shaman.

[shrappnel]

I am currently playing elem shaman and i feel im locked down alot of the time

if any one i say any one pays any attention to me im locked down most of the time unable to do what i am "supposed" to

i think a huge bit of this ret complaining is way to much tunnel vision.

if rets get the interrupts they want combined with dk rogue or warrior or maby even survival hunter how on earth am i supposed to be able to do anything as elem or resto.

im getting fed up with all this bitching Read and learn

Dont only care for your own all the time thats my point.

Ummm. You seemed to be complaining/tunnel visioning/caring for your own there alot
And I wasn't talking about an interrupt.
Again, this isn't a complain/QQ post.

[BlazerWithTheLazer]

CS should apply "Nerfed presence of the Ret" on you. this "debuff" on you makes everyone in a 20yard radius suffer from the Rets nerfs making them do 50% less dmg, reduce healing by 50%, reduce movement speed by 50% increase GCD on all abilitys by 500% and makes them unable to use any abilitys with a cd longer than 1min. This goes for both friendly and enemy units.

Am I doing it right?

[Rhonen]

im not really sure how to approach this thread.

arent there enuff interrupts allready?

I am currently playing elem shaman and i feel im locked down alot of the time, my strength is "oh i got nuked down by an elemental shaman just coz no one had any focus on him"

if any one i say any one pays any attention to me im locked down most of the time unable to do what i am "supposed" to

i mean having dk and rogues and possibly warriors keeping me toned down to a silly point and then ALSO having Rets doing the same thing just couse they feel they dont have enuff against a healer!

i think a huge bit of this ret complaining is way to much tunnel vision.

if rets get the interrupts they want combined with dk rogue or warrior or maby even survival hunter how on earth am i supposed to be able to do anything as elem or resto.

im getting fed up with all this bitching Read and learn, there was a blue post where they borught enhancement to the subject, if a singel enhance shaman can beat a singel healer, then a healer with 2 meele on him would go down without a chance.

Dont only care for your own all the time thats my point.

A little bit of the pot calling the kettle black there. Honestly, most people that take on any particular class and spec on as their main are going to care about it the most. That's what they're going to talk about the most and that's what they're going to want to see improvements in the most.

That said, when I peel away the QQ in your own argument, you make a good point. Many people that complain about PvP are complaining about 1v1 situations...in which case, you have little to no ground to stand on. Another interrupt on a Ret pally carried over to Arena would have a very broad after-effect, and lead to yet more QQing by all the other classes. The OP, however, is talking about an MS-type affect on healing...not an interrupt. So that's where this convo should be focused. I'm not saying I agree with the OP, but I understand what he's trying to convey.

[Neba]

Within seconds of engaging a Ret pally you're already afflicted with the Vindication debuff, Judgement effect, +3% chance to be critted and a holy damage DoT. Do Ret Paladins really need more secondary effects automatically applied with their damaging abilities?

[ghola]

I think a more appropriate effect from Mark of the Crusader would be defensive in nature, since that is the overall vision for ret. Blizz is trying to address burst, so I'd prefer to see Crusader Strike do something else:

CS proc's Mark of the Crusader buff, which grants 20 resilience for 12 seconds. Stacks up to 10 times.

It'll rot fast, you need to be in constant battle for maximum effect, and has no impact on burst in pvp or damage dealt in pve.

[Dualkalibur]

All the ideas I've seen here so far are for arena only... Boo. How about some PVE use to the damn boring spell? Adding 20 resil per hit is useless in PVE. 30% reduction on the next heal wouldn't work on the bosses at all knowing blizzard, so again, no good to anyone using it in PVE. Like they do, for their damage?
If blizz FINALLY makes spells do different effects in PVE and PVP then I'd be fine to see you're suggestions. Until then, something that works for PVE and PVP, or just PVE please. Its not world of arenacraft people.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

Make CS apply a debuff that resets the Paladin's Crusader Strike cooldown whenever the target casts a healing spell.

A lot more damage if you're FFing a healer, but since it's already on a 4 second cooldown, and it's our softest-hitting instant attack, it probably wouldn't break anything.

[sadface]

Why not make a new crusader strike like this


Crusader Strike

5% base mana 5 yard range
instant 4 sec cooldown

An instant strike that deal 75% weapon dmg and when your melee attacks critically hit you launch a free Exorcism at your target

lol

[Ryxxi]

Bad TROLL is BAD.Like Giving a MS like Debuff is guna Make Crusader strike more non Boring.I LOL"D.

[talynonyx]

Oh boy. And how many bosses are being healed? None if I remember correctly. So this would be useless.