How do you feel Shadow is within a raid, do you do good DPS compare to the rest?

[[-Spiritus-]]

I agree with a lot of points that Strykzor has brought up, and am ashamed of the negativity that the other posters of this thread have brought into the discussion, including Nezoia.

That being said, I've been playing shadow for a long time now, and it's my impression that SPriests can beat crappy players of other classes, but constantly fall behind skilled players of other classes. Our utility is usually already in the raid in one form or another, the only one you might be missing is misery, but balance druids do more damage anyway.

And as for survivability? Warlocks make better ranged soakers on iron council hard mode, anyway. Demon Armor & Nether Protection are way better than everything Shadow has.

I'd like to dare you to refrain from flaming Strykzor (and probably myself as well) and come up with a competent counter-argument so we can have a real discussion.

The argument is, do Shadow Priests "do good DPS compare[d] to the rest?"

My response is yes. However, they will never beat a pure DPS class of equal gear and skill in a target dummy battle. The margin, however, of how much "better" a pure DPS class is compared to a Spriest is, well, marginal. Some fights, an Spriest will pull more damage than a mage, other fights a mage will do 15% more damage than an Spriest.

The first comments made on this thread reflected this sentiment. Strykzor pulled out the "negativity" gun by asking those who think "Spriests are a good all round choice for DPS[...] should just stop playing." This is a straight up negative attack. He then continues on by stating the only way an Spriest can be competitive is to "pad damage" and recklessly use Mind Sear. Furthermore, he concludes that anyone who would have died w/o VE during a hardmode attempt is 'bad" and "shouldn't be doing HMs." I find this statement amusing because even the most harcode of progression raiding guilds wouldn't be so elitiest to basically say "if you die ever on any attempt ever u r bad."

It is my belief that if anyone thinks Spriests are so broken in PvE as to say they are NOT competitive DPS, they are either playing with other DPS who are exceptionally more geared or skilled, or that they have such a mental block on the subject, it prevents them from performing to their greatest capacity.

I hope this response is less "negative." What I would ask of you is to read the posts previously to see for yourself who cast the first stone. If you agree with Strykzor that Spriests are broken and uncompetitive with other DPS classes, then I respect your position. However, do not chastise others for being curt with an individual who picked the fight. I would ask you to not defend someone's behavior because you agree with his argument. Accusing others of being "negative," while defending the individual who first dragged the discussion into negativity, is hypocritical.

[Woah]

If you're content with being near/at the top for one fight...

[Nezoia]

Basically, the number one guild in the world, have a shadowpriest as best dps on the hardest encounter in the world. How can that ever make us underpowered?

People's pathetic care about damage meters on farm-bosses is getting lame. Get over it, and focus on the main concept of WoW raiding: to beat the encounter!

[Kelesti]

Basically, the number one guild in the world, have a shadowpriest as best dps on the hardest encounter in the world. How can that ever make us underpowered?

People's pathetic care about damage meters on farm-bosses is getting lame. Get over it, and focus on the main concept of WoW raiding: to beat the encounter!

Whoa, whoa, easy now. You're starting to sound like a healer here, wtf Nezoia?

[apostate]

But we're as much affected by the RNG and threat cap as they are. Which a fight like Hodir obviously benefit classes who normally do high crits due to the mechanics of the Storm Power debuff, I still think we're doing quite strong considering our insane survivability and the utility buffs we bring to our raid.

What I mean by this is I think our dps is very suitable, and buffing it would be a major result of drama about hybrids being superior to other classes. It should by obvious by now we're not necessary top dps in any encounter, but it's still very common for the shadowpriests to position themselves in top #5 on Mimiron Hardmode.

So if druids win dps on Ignis/XT, and we win dps on Mimiron and Yogg-Saron, how is that not fair?

I don't think I really disagree with the point you are making overall. I think it's valid.

My issue is, I don't particularly like to be a class that does well only on certain encounters. I do realize we are a hybrid and as such are affected by the hybrid dps tax. What bothers me is that on the same encounter on Hodir hard, a lock playing to the same skill level as us will in fact beat us by quit a few thousand dps and quite a bit more damage done.

I am not asking for a top dps spot on every single fight. I would like for there to be a less pronounced difference between the dps gaps. I put just as much effort into gearing up, knowing the fights, and playing well as these other classes. Why is the result that much different?

You do bring up the point about us being good at one of the hardest encounters in the game so we get brought in for that. On the same token, we can get sat for other encounters because our dps/dmg done is lacking, so that point does have a little bit of a double edged sword to it. If we want to use the best guilds in the world as an example, we also have to point out how they sit classes on fights because they don't do well. Granted, in non end game guilds this isn't as much of an issue.

This is just my opinion on it and how it affects how I enjoy the game. I'm not stating this as objective fact.

[Nezoia]

The game's always been like that. And on all the other fights we're NOT billions of dps under everybody else. I think we're in a really good balance, and it would seem Blizzard much agrees with my assertion (consider no 3.2 shadow changes).

And all I write is obviously also always opinions. Nobody can express anything but their own opinions on the internet.

[[-Spiritus-]]

And all I write is obviously also always opinions. Nobody can express anything but their own opinions on the internet.

Except that I am awesome. That's fact. =P

[apostate]

The game's always been like that. And on all the other fights we're NOT billions of dps under everybody else. I think we're in a really good balance, and it would seem Blizzard much agrees with my assertion (consider no 3.2 shadow changes).

And all I write is obviously also always opinions. Nobody can express anything but their own opinions on the internet.

I think all it boils down to is people have differing opinions as to what is "good dps". I do enjoy these discussions because every once in a while, someone brings something up I had not taken into consideration and I learn things.

[Kelesti]

]
Except that I am awesome. That's fact. =P

Okay, who put the extra-strength batteries in the calculator? I thought I told everyone that it gets to be too much if it's given anything more than solar power!

jk <3 ya Spiritus

[Nezoia]

I think all it boils down to is people have differing opinions as to what is "good dps". I do enjoy these discussions because every once in a while, someone brings something up I had not taken into consideration and I learn things.

I don't mind when it's a discussion. But when retards like Strykzor puts himself up and say "we do bad dps, you all suck, I'm win", it's pretty hard to take serious.

And I'll never let his so called "advice" stand alone in a thread that asks for advice. We cannot let trolls answer questions unattended.