Question about Vindication Change

[Prinsesa]

Warriors are already bringing demo shout, and vindication doesn't stack with it. So unless you're not raiding with any warriors.

A Prot Warrior will typically not be specced into Improved Demoralizing Shout in favor of Deep Wounds for TPS.

A DPS Warrior could apply it, but at a loss of DPS, and that's if they agree and remember to keep it up.

[Adamson]

A DPS Warrior could apply it, but at a loss of DPS, and that's if they agree and remember to keep it up.

As far as our guilds goes we have a fury warrior who is competent.

[shiftynou]

Having a Ret Paladin provide the equivalent of 5/5 Improved Demoralizing Shout with 100% uptime at no cost to his own DPS is something I'd consider to be a better deal than Divine Sacrifice.

Divine Sacrifice is the #1 raid utility that we have.

[Adamson]

Divine Sacrifice is the #1 raid utility that we have.

Aye, Far and away better than copy/paste demo shout

[neck deep]

As far as our guilds goes we have a fury warrior who is competent.

any dps awarrior that will still demo shout a boss after this patch is far from competent. it's not like you have a shortage of points. our ret's and even prot paladin have all expressed the interest in speccing into it.

[Mysmere]

vindication only gives the equivalent of a non improved demo shout i believe, so yes, anyone who bothers to improve theirs (bear tanks/dps wars i believe) will still use it

id definitely work out a way to get divine sacrifice, as it seems like itll always have a nice niche now:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10072

one random point in divine purpose over socom. both have marginal benefits, but one is usable on bosses with spell dmg, and one is just not usable on bosses

[Azharok]

any dps awarrior that will still demo shout a boss after this patch is far from competent. it's not like you have a shortage of points. our ret's and even prot paladin have all expressed the interest in speccing into it.

You should consider yourself lucky that we are still BoMing you..... Stop the whining and use the demo shout.

[Grob]

You should consider yourself lucky that we are still BoMing you.....

YOu do it in combat every 30(45) sec, imrite?

[Krekko]

you will NOT use Command for PvE.... "Why" you may ask...because of this... http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=47661

As for a base Ret talent build, your base build should look like this...

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10072

this build gives you 3 talent points to place where you please. Being that we seem to be having some issues with mana on the current PTR, it looks like you will want to dump the 3 points into Divine Intelect and skip out on Pursuit of Justice.

The proposition that you would even suggest not taking Pursuit of justice is preposterous. The suggestion, that you would take divine intellect is plain old retarded.

The fact that you proposed this build shows you know nothing.

[Alinor]

you will NOT use Command for PvE.... "Why" you may ask...because of this... http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=47661

As for a base Ret talent build, your base build should look like this...

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10072

this build gives you 3 talent points to place where you please. Being that we seem to be having some issues with mana on the current PTR, it looks like you will want to dump the 3 points into Divine Intelect and skip out on Pursuit of Justice.

Thanks for letting me know what i should do but let me explain something. When you are against trash that dies within 10-15 sec, you will not have your stacks up on it most of the time, this will mean that you will idle your dps in these situations.
For example Thorim fight in Ulduar, inside the arena I get less than 10 seconds of dps on the individual mob that means I will for the most part will not do seal damage so CS, DS, Melee, Judgment will all not do seal damage or will do small margin if you get the stacks up before the mob dies. So in that environment SoV is not effective.

When you are killing mobs outside of instances same thing happens. Mob usually dies within 5secs as it stands now, but seals do damage immediately, so you will likely use SoC alongside SoV to effectively do damage.

[iktankniet]

YOu do it in combat every 30(45) sec, imrite?

i really dont get where you're going with the comment. Battleshout is 3 or 4min afaik.

[Mysmere]

i really dont get where you're going with the comment. Battleshout is 3 or 4min afaik.

he was talking about demo shout

[generalanders]

Once again warriors have to waste time and rage on their debuffs while the other classes just get the abilities thrown in to their autoattacks. If I were a hardcore raider I'd tell the ret to make sure he has it if he wants to come.

[Azharok]

Again, it's not like your tank is going to die because said Ret/Warrior doesn't have Imp Demo/Vindication. It is not going to make or break your raid.

[iktankniet]

Once again warriors have to waste time and rage on their debuffs while the other classes just get the abilities thrown in to their autoattacks. If I were a hardcore raider I'd tell the ret to make sure he has it if he wants to come.

if you take Divine Sacrifice in your build then we can take vindi... oh wait

Divine Sacrifice >>> Vindication

nobody else has divine Sac. prot could probably even spec themselves into it.

[Adamson]

any dps awarrior that will still demo shout a boss after this patch is far from competent. it's not like you have a shortage of points. our ret's and even prot paladin have all expressed the interest in speccing into it.

What are you talking about? With having to pick up seals of the pure, rets ARE short on points. We have to choose between vindication and divine sacrifice.

Sorry bud, I'll say it again.

Divine sacrifice > what warriors already bring untalented or talented

[Adamson]

Likelyhood is that as prot, if i have the points spare, i'll take it.

Agreed, Vindication will likely make it into my prot build. My threat isn't poor enough to bother with seals of the pure.

[arel00]

Ditto. It also seems SotP is still weaker than Crusade for threat. I should study it a bit more, but it seems that having 1 Conviction + 3 Crusade (meaning 2 points for Vindication and 2 for PoJ) nets me, on the PTR, more TPS than 5/5 SotP, and it doesn't force me to chose between PoJ and Vindication.
Both tests conducted on the PTR "tank test" Patchwerk.

As prot, I'm probably going for this build (2/2 Imp.Judgment for non-ordinary situations, personal preference)

[neck deep]

You should consider yourself lucky that we are still BoMing you..... Stop the whining and use the demo shout.

that's fine, battle shout lasts 4 and a half minutes, unlike demo shout. you act like BoM is a luxury.

prot paladins, which are by far the best tanks in 3.2, and our dedicated ret(2 ret specs, one with dsac, one without) will both be capable of bringing vindication without me wasting my rage and potentially ruining my dps roation when demo shout misses.

[Adamson]

prot paladins, which are by far the best tanks in 3.2, and our dedicated ret(2 ret specs, one with dsac, one without) will both be capable of bringing vindication without me wasting my rage and potentially ruining my dps roation when demo shout misses.

If you or your other warriors weren't lazy both your rets could have divine sac and two whole people could utilize hands down the best raid utility there is.