Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

[Phyrion]

Paladin gives nothing to the tank but 1 heal, disc brings a lot more to the table.

People think disc is bad just because they dont/cant top healing meters. This is becasue HPS meters ignore all the mitigation and dont count the healing the 'not needed' due to it.

Read the fucking topic, nobody is saying disc is bad.

[Asgard]

People think disc is bad just because they dont/cant top healing meters. This is becasue HPS meters ignore all the mitigation and dont count the healing the 'not needed' due to it.

Who said disc priests are bad ? I didn't. I just say they're the class that less benefits from Val'Anyr. The 'healing not needed due to it' as you say does not increase the effectiveness of val'anyr's procs. THUS, it's not good to give that mace to a disc priest.

[Dentoid]

disc priest penance = 3x5k crit every 10s = 750 damage absorbed

holy priest gheal crit = 3000 damage absorbed

holy pally gheal crit = 3000 damage absorbed

resto cham chain heal crit = 4000+ damage absorbed (one bubble on each target)

now where is my prayer and circle of healing and prayer of mending?

[Boznian]

in 15 seconds, with the 4 set priest bonus, tailoring enchant on cloak, pandoras plea, eye of the brood which you should expect a priest that has farmed ulduar enough to get his legendary mace in the first place so your talking about the best gear here.

In 15 seconds the disc priest has ridiculous amounts of burst healing. Penance will be 6k+ crits min, a pw:s itself will be absorbing 6-7k, PI will be popped and if heals are done as they should be, then a disc priest will be on at least par if not much more than a holy pala.

At the end of the day, the best healer gets the mace and whoever the best healer is will bring the most use from it period.

To say disc wont benefit as much as other healers is wrong and false information and the majority of your numbers are completely wrong too.

Why are you ppl so retarded enough not to realise this?

[evoslayer]

Paladin gives nothing to the tank but 1 heal, disc brings a lot more to the table.

People think disc is bad just because they dont/cant top healing meters. This is becasue HPS meters ignore all the mitigation and dont count the healing the 'not needed' due to it.

Only idiots think disc is bad, I think its one of the most useful if not the most useful healing spec,

However the argument isnt whether r not to bring a disc priest to the raid, its whether or not the hammer will have the greatest effect when used by a disc priest, and the answer is a resounding "No in fact it will have the lowest possible effect if used by a disc priest"

I love disc, If i played a healer it would be disc, it has a unique and awesome healing style and can save a tank at a time when no other class could barring a extended cooldown ability. But all that matters to valanyr is the total amount healed including overhealing, and looking at those numbers a paladin is MUCH MUCH better, and every other healing class is somewhat better.

[iglocska]

This topic isn't about who you'd give it to. It's about wheter it's better for disc or holy.

Unless your holy priest is on MT healing duty I answered just that question.

I don't give a flying **** if the raid members get any shields besides in a few situational fights, if they aren't idiots and don't step into fires non stop then those shields belong on the MT.

[syanid]

I'll be leaving the discussion since it seems that general thinking here is that HPS > all which is false. There are healing niches, if you minimize the damage on the MT, you get to bring another dpser or use another raid healer. That's what Discipline will do. Casting bubbles for 15 seconds on entire raid when there's no damage is plainly dumb and does nothing. A paladin doesn't mitigate near enough damage as disc priest, I won't bother to prove it since there's way too many wws parses out there that prove it.

Good luck in the discussion and to the OP - my personal opinion is that your GM knows what he's doing. If it's not a problem, tell us how it feels to play once he completes the mace and swaps the spec.

Oh by the way, I guess that it totally rocks having a Holy Priest with Val'Anyr healing Vezax hard mode. Oh wait...

[chronicbint]

OK, let's say 4 flash heals, of which 2 will crit. That's 18k healing so 2700 more absorbed damage. Following my number that would put you at 6.1k absorbed, the paladin is at 19.7k. Now what ?

You need to take into account the class as a whole. A Disc priest may heal for less, but thats because they dont need to heal as much due to our mitigation abilities and talents. On raw absorption figures the disc priest looks worse but its not really. But the mace would improve any healer for a similar amount taking into account the whole class mechanics.

I have no hope ever of attaining this so im just here for the discussion rather than anything else. ;D

[evoslayer]

Unless your holy priest is on MT healing duty I answered just that question.

I don't give a flying **** if the raid members get any shields besides in a few situational fights, if they aren't idiots and don't step into fires non stop then those shields belong on the MT.

Have you ever fought mimiron or freya on hard mode, there is a TON of unavoidable aoe damage, the only two fights even remotely comprable in difficulty to these where tank damage is an issue are Algalon and 0 keeper yogg, almost no guilds, even those who get legendary maces will ever down 0 keepers, You could definately make an argument for giving it to a main tank healer for algalon but if you do give it to a priest that priest had better be planning on being a raid healer, because if not you just misused 30 shards pretty horribly.

[Asgard]

a pw:s itself will be absorbing 6-7k

which will reslut in a 0 val'anyr bubble.

@All retards who can't read : Nobody here is saying disc is bad, or not on par with other healers. Disc is a really powerful healer in a raid, one of the best imo. But, in order to min-max Val'Anyr, you've got to chose the healer who will be able to get out the maximum of HEALING (which does NOT include ABSORBS) in 15 seconds, wether it is on a tank or on the raid. And to fulfill this role, the disc priest is your worst choice. Yes, the mace is awesome for a disc priest. Yes, a talented disc priest will make good use of it. But still, an equally geared and talented Holy paladin / Restodruid / Restocham / Holypriest will make ALOT more use of the proc. Do you Disc priests even undesrtand your class and the proc ? You've got a ton of damage reduction, damage absorb and mitigation that you bring to the raid. If you'd be making the same HPS as other healers PLUS having those absorbs, you'd be clearly overpowered. This is why you've got lower HPS than any other healing spec and this is why you will be the healing spec that will benefit the least from the mace's proc.

But the mace would improve any healer for a similar amount taking into account the whole class mechanics.

NO.

Holy paladin : 100% of his healing IS healing, so 100% of his healing will go into bubbles
Resto druid : same
Resto sham : same
Holy priest : same
Disc priest : A certain amount of his healing is in fact absorb, which will NOT increase the effectiveness of the proc, so the proc will be lesser.

[evoslayer]

I'll be leaving the discussion since it seems that general thinking here is that HPS > all which is false. There are healing niches, if you minimize the damage on the MT, you get to bring another dpser or use another raid healer. That's what Discipline will do. Casting bubbles for 15 seconds on entire raid when there's no damage is plainly dumb and does nothing. A paladin doesn't mitigate near enough damage as disc priest, I won't bother to prove it since there's way too many wws parses out there that prove it.

Good luck in the discussion and to the OP - my personal opinion is that your GM knows what he's doing. If it's not a problem, tell us how it feels to play once he completes the mace and swaps the spec.

Oh by the way, I guess that it totally rocks having a Holy Priest with Val'Anyr healing Vezax hard mode. Oh wait...

HPS is not > than all, but valanyr is alot like recount in that it doesnt take absorbs into acount, making HPS a very useful factor in determining the usefulness of val'anyr


" A paladin doesn't mitigate near enough damage as disc priest,"
NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THIS, what they have said, and is true, is that in a 15 second window a paladin will build a bigger val'anyr bubble and will do more mitigation WITH VAL'ANYR, if you have an argument against this claim please let me know, explain how 7 15-25k heals is less total healing than 2 penances 15-25k and maybe 5 or 6 flash heals 3k flash heals

[Turokuruvar]

but the fact of the matter is that a GOOD priest who has this mace will spec disc for fights where tank damage is key and holy for fights where raid damage is. Using the mace situationally to it's greatest advantage. If you give it to a holy paladin you don't have that flexibility.

A disc priest is going to get better use out of it on some fights, a holy priest on others, but OMG!!11! There is this thing called "Dual specs" and that will enable a priest to get the most use out of it for the benefit of the guild that fed him shards by being flexible to the encounter. Sometimes, sure that will be holy, but sometimes it will be disc too.

[evoslayer]

I never realized till today how truely stupid some people are.

[Boznian]

so the shield doesnt 'add' to the proc with the mace...BUT, its still a 8k shield, this gives priests the 4 set bonus. You cant not count the 8k shield from a pw:s coz at the end it is still adding to the reduction on the tank so it must still be counted for as a 'heal' in itself.

The Valanyr is an 'absorption shield'.

With disc priests, with divine aegis at t9 this will already be at 40%. a pw:s on top of this absorption will be another 7k shield on top of divine aegis. In 15 seconds worth of the proc, a PI on the priest, and all this other mitigation on the tank already, thats a LOT of dmg absorbed so less qq about disc priests not 'pumping out as much as a holy paladin' and disregarding are actual absorption heal which is one of our primary spells.

tbh tho, we still got the o shit button wen there is lots of aoe and the mace procs to get in a divine hymn and see some nice shields all over the raid

[Sphyx]

Dumbing it down for very very stupid people, you can have a disc priest in your raid throwing out divine aegis and still have another healer with val anyr, suppose you are particularly worried about tank healing especially. Suppose you have two consistant raiding tank healers a disc priest and a Holy Paladin,

You can give the Paladin or the priest valanyr

Scenario one, you give the priest Valanyr, the priest puts divine aegis up as well as some crappy bubbles from the valanyr proc

this is equal to Divine Aegis + Crappy bubbles

Scenario two, you give the mace to the holy Paladin, The disc priest still puts up divine aegis, and the paladin puts up some really powerful bubbles from valanyr,

this is equal to Divine Aegis + Awesome Bubbles

so lets compare

Scenario 1: Divine Aegis + Crappy Bubbles
Scenario 2: Divine Aegis + Awesome Bubbles

Now using algebra you can subtract Divine Aegis from both sides

Scenario 1: Crappy Bubbles
Scenario 2: Awesome Bubbles

Which one would you rather have in your raid.

It's all bull. The Shield from Val'anyr is limited to 20k. So as long as the caster is able to pull of ~130k raw heal in 15 Seconds, there is no "My Val'anyr Shields are better than yours!" Nuff said!

[Nikoll]

to be purly on topic, it is better for holy. Holy Heals, disc absorbs.

[Phyrion]

It's all bull. The Shield from Val'anyr is limited to 20k. So as long as the caster is able to pull of ~130k raw heal in 15 Seconds, there is no "My Val'anyr Shields are better than yours!" Nuff said!

There is no way a disc priest can put out 130k healing in 15 seconds.

[Ashvael]

It's all bull. The Shield from Val'anyr is limited to 20k. So as long as the caster is able to pull of ~130k raw heal in 15 Seconds, there is no "My Val'anyr Shields are better than yours!" Nuff said!

And you assume that a target who's getting healed for 130k in those 15 seconds is not taking any damage at all?

[chronicbint]

Too many mongs in thread, off for breakfast.

[Asgard]

Let's dumb down a little more :

Val'Anyr's proc pretty much increases your heals by 15% (in a preventive way) for 15 seconds.
Val'Anyr's proc pretty much increases your absorbs by 0% for 15 seconds.

Holypal/Druid/Sham/Holypriest heal. They get a 15% increase when the mace procs.
Discpriest heals and absorbs. They get a less than 15% increase when the mace procs.

Obvious but :

15 % > Anything under 15%