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  1. #21

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscesthepally
    jesus, when are people going to shut up about shockadin. Its goooonnnneeeeee
    I wouldn't worry about it. Every patch we need to go through the same argument to prove the same point that shockadin doesn't have any viability because some marginal change was made that could possibly have the smallest impact on the spec...

  2. #22
    Dreadlord shockpally's Avatar
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    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    SoR scales off of SP mainly, and the other healing Classes are casters and not Melee hybrids.
    SoR is still modified by AP and SP. The Seal itself procs off of weapon attacks. It is meant for Prot and Ret.

    Holy paladin are Melee/Caster Hybrids with no spamable damage spell or melee attack and if you or anyone doesnt know that then you are in the wrong forum.

    As a class Holy Paladin have only 1 attack that is meant for them. Holy Shock. It has a 6 sec CD and is their most versatile healing spell at the same time.

    This really isnt a shockadin/Holy Paladin issue. It is a Paladin Class issue that was never resolved. Until it is People will still look for any way possible to get more damage out of a Holy Paladin.

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  3. #23
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by shockpally
    SoR is still modified by AP and SP. The Seal itself procs off of weapon attacks. It is meant for Prot and Ret.

    Holy paladin are Melee/Caster Hybrids with no spamable damage spell or melee attack and if you or anyone doesnt know that then you are in the wrong forum.

    As a class Holy Paladin have only 1 attack that is meant for them. Holy Shock. It has a 6 sec CD and is their most versatile healing spell at the same time.

    This really isnt a shockadin/Holy Paladin issue. It is a Paladin Class issue that was never resolved. Until it is People will still look for any way possible to get more damage out of a Holy Paladin.

    SoR is meant to be used as the Holy DPS seal when at level 80, unless they were to use Wisdom and spam Consecration or something. Blizzard also stated that they wanted it as the Tanking seal, but has so far done nothing to make it one.

  4. #24
    Dreadlord shockpally's Avatar
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    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    SoR is meant to be used as the Holy DPS seal when at level 80, unless they were to use Wisdom and spam Consecration or something. Blizzard also stated that they wanted it as the Tanking seal, but has so far done nothing to make it one.
    Holy uses SoR because it is the most favorable damage seal but it is not ideal for them.

    Outside of BoM/ImPBoM Holy gets no AP whatsoever to apply towards this seal. The weapon speed modifier suggests it is best used with 2h weapons of which there are none that are suitable for Holy. Sure they could pick up any of the ones with ST/AP on but they take a huge loss in SP and armor when they replace their SP main hand and shield.

    Holy is much better off using Holy shock, Consecration and whatever else they can scrap together to AE grind with spell power than try to use a Holy build with AP gear and NO Mana pool. Judgments are so pitiful for Holy they almost arent even worth talenting. It's a good thing they put the extra damage on Judgments of the Pure along with the haste because the only good part about the talent is the haste.
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  5. #25

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamson
    never has been viable, and never will be.
    Factually incorrect. If you were melee, of any spec of any class, you could not defeat shockadin, period, if the shockadin was worth anything as a player. Ranged was hit or miss and healers were tough but it certainly was viable for a long long time till wrath. They even had gear for it. Discussing HOW effective and in what situation is of course up for debate, but to say it wasn't viable is factually incorrect.

    The week the brought exorcism back as an instant cast was AWESOME. Shockadin was even better than before because holy shock when glyphed only had a 5 second cooldown and exprcism when talented had only a 10 second cooldown, compared to 15 on holy shock and 8 on judgement from BC. Holy shock also does much more damage now. Plus with other talents such as art of war, repentance, and judgements of the wise all attainable by shockadins at level 80 it ruled with unlimited mana, instant flashes for heals and potent, unmitigated damage. Not to mention havign judgement and shield of the righteous for some small damage while everything cooled down. Oh and you could also get sanctified wrath for a super hammer of wrath. Even if was not a vaible raiding healing or dps spec, it was simply a very fun and flexibly way to play, the most fun I have had in wow.


    Then the band wagon rets had to ruin it for everyone.

    Make a deep holy talent to make exorcism instant cast, that way rets don't get it and shockadin can be played. Nice compromise.

    The cast time on exorcism is really prohibitive right now for it to work

  6. #26
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skiball
    Factually incorrect. If you were melee, of any spec of any class, you could not defeat shockadin, period, if the shockadin was worth anything as a player. Ranged was hit or miss and healers were tough but it certainly was viable for a long long time till wrath. They even had gear for it. Discussing HOW effective and in what situation is of course up for debate, but to say it wasn't viable is factually incorrect.

    The week the brought exorcism back as an instant cast was AWESOME. Shockadin was even better than before because holy shock when glyphed only had a 5 second cooldown and exprcism when talented had only a 10 second cooldown, compared to 15 on holy shock and 8 on judgement from BC. Holy shock also does much more damage now. Plus with other talents such as art of war, repentance, and judgements of the wise all attainable by shockadins at level 80 it ruled with unlimited mana, instant flashes for heals and potent, unmitigated damage. Not to mention havign judgement and shield of the righteous for some small damage while everything cooled down. Oh and you could also get sanctified wrath for a super hammer of wrath. Even if was not a vaible raiding healing or dps spec, it was simply a very fun and flexibly way to play, the most fun I have had in wow.


    Then the band wagon rets had to ruin it for everyone.

    Make a deep holy talent to make exorcism instant cast, that way rets don't get it and shockadin can be played. Nice compromise.

    The cast time on exorcism is really prohibitive right now for it to work
    It was never an intended spec, just like Prolly healing and Seal twisting, so Blizzard tweaked to eliminate it.

    The cast time is to prevent it's 100% use in PvP unless specced as DPS, due to the potential issue of becoming spell locked out of EVERY spell.

  7. #27

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Fills the Paladin with holy spirit for 30 min, granting each melee attack [MWS * (0.022 * AP + 0.044 * SPH)] additional Holy damage. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time.

    Unleashing this Seal's energy will cause [1 + 0.2 * AP + 0.32 * SPH] Holy damage to an enemy.
    SoR uses more SP than AP, thats why holys use it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Artefacts:
    • In ordner to better fit the current post-truth zeitgeist, we are going to rename alle occurences of "artefact" into "artebelieve".

  8. #28

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamson
    never has been viable, and never will be.
    ^^ QFT

    The topic comes up every time paladins get a change. Shockadin might be a fun idea but at it's core, it is nothing more than a horrible idea. Play Shock because its fun. Don't ever try to justify its validity. It will never be valid.

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  9. #29

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Define viability.

    Pre 3.0 before the judgement system revision, shockadins had huge burst potential. But after the 3.0 came around, Seal of Righteousness and the judgements of it became so weak. Even with Exorcism and Shield of Righteousness, we have a bit more damage options but not the same ability to burst others down. In any case, shock for arena was only good in 2's or 5's pre-3.0. With the survivability of the holy/prot spec and it's ability to also toss damage and Ret's more reliable damage and better-albeit nerfed output...it's possible to run it but if you're not already in the 2000's with ret, it's going to take a lot more from you and your partner to make it with shockadin. If you're just going to play for laughs and hope to make it to the 1500's, then who cares about viability?

  10. #30

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Claiming Shockadin as being viable or valid is certainly in the eye of the beholder. Using it for soloing or possibly finding a niche for it in 2v2 doesn't make it "viable".

    Lets say that the novelty of Shock became more popular. The spec would lose its niche status and people would quickly figure out what to do with you. Currently, very few people play that spec and maybe thats why it has some small amount of success. People really aren't sure what to do with you.

    All of that being said, even the niche doesn't make it viable. Its still just a novelty.

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  11. #31

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamson
    never has been viable, and never will be.
    in season 2 my girlfriend went double shockadin to 2k rating :P sounds pretty viable to me

  12. #32
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by masterprtzl
    in season 2 my girlfriend went double shockadin to 2k rating :P sounds pretty viable to me
    Gimmick =/= Viable

    Its like saying TG Warriors are viable tanks with DPS gear.

  13. #33

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by deafmute
    Define viability.
    This is a good point and suppose I should have been more clear in my OP, however I feel I have my answer already as it is... I should have said,"Can Shockadins really compete in arenas?" or something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    Its still just a novelty.
    I think this is a good statement. I do agree that Dual-spec killed the Shockadin...

    Quote Originally Posted by Astray
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Fills the Paladin with holy spirit for 30 min, granting each melee attack [MWS * (0.022 * AP + 0.044 * SPH)] additional Holy damage. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time.

    Unleashing this Seal's energy will cause [1 + 0.2 * AP + 0.32 * SPH] Holy damage to an enemy.
    SoR uses more SP than AP, thats why holys use it.
    You know after working with 3.2 a bit and really seeing the... interesting... differences in JoR and JoCom, I believe now what I originally thought at the beginning of this thread. That Shockadins are not able to match up evenly with any other spec at all. This was not the spec's original purpose though anyway. Before dual-spec, it was meant to be a Hybrid spec for a hybrid class. I do believe that there are still good possiblities for a more offensive Holy Paladin, but it would require more skill to be used effectively and ultimately it should be fun for whomever wishes to try it.
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  14. #34

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    aaah people trying to make a "true hybrid". Always been attempts and some people did pretty well at it, however doesnt match up to speccing for one role. Doesnt matter if it's a "smite priest", a "shockadin" or a "bandage spec rogue". your giving up the utility or ever part or your ability to perform your main job.. Shockadns never have and never will heal as well as a deep holy OR dps as well as a ret (and considering most of BC/Vanilla the latter of the two is pretty scary).

    Can it be done? Yes
    Can it be Fun? Yes
    Will you ever be as good at either job and a deep ret/holy is? no

    so if you wanna do it to be fun, go ahead it's your 15 bucks spend it how you want. You certainly wont ever be raiding with the ensidia/method's of the world, your not going to make glad. but if your ok with that then enjoy.

  15. #35
    Pandaren Monk Swampmoose's Avatar
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    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by carsono311

    I think this is a good statement. I do agree that Dual-spec killed the Shockadin...
    It was dead in early BC....nothing introduced in the past year had any effect on "Shockadins."

  16. #36

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Actually I raided up to Black Temple with a shockadin spec pre-3.0 and 2v2'd with an arms war to the 1800's back in s2 and s3 (no, not impressive, but meh I had fun specially getting s3 sta/sp gear to smack people around in BG's - and yes I know BG's don't count). Sure I wasn't #1 on the heal meters in raids, but in earlier content I was still 2nd or 3rd - beaten mostly by another paladin. And any shockadin who knew how to play the spec was unbeatable against melee because of the overly simple controlled burst one could unleash with wings, trinket => Judge Righteousness => DF-Shock => HoW. The largest weakness of the spec was in how fast one could OOM when putting out max DPS. If anything, I would say that if we had divine plea with the pre-3.0 skills and spells, we would even be able to raid as DPS.

    Edit: But I still switched to ret.

  17. #37

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by carsono311
    Everyone can recall the almost immediate effects of 3.0 hitting... Ret FotMs. Honestly, I don't blame them based on the changes with 3.0, but I was interested also in the possibilities for a return of Shockadins. This leads me to ask, with the return of Exo use on players, is Shockadin viable once again? Exo is a major driving force behind this question, but some of the other 3.2 changes seem to be beneficial in this regard as well. Thanks.
    why be a shockadin if you can be Prot DPS while being immortal and able to heal?

  18. #38

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swampmoose
    It was dead in early BC....nothing introduced in the past year had any effect on "Shockadins."
    Well, what wasn't dead with Paladins in early BC...

    Quote Originally Posted by bovaja
    why be a shockadin if you can be Prot DPS while being immortal and able to heal?
    I was unaware Paladins gained "God mode"... so if I had known, then yes a Shockadin would be a moot point.
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  19. #39
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    Quote Originally Posted by carsono311
    Well, what wasn't dead with Paladins in early BC...

    I was unaware Paladins gained "God mode"... so if I had known, then yes a Shockadin would be a moot point.
    When paladins could Crusader Strike someone for half their health.

  20. #40

    Re: Is Shockadin viable once again?

    No not really...

    It lacks key talents of each tree, it's a jack of all trades that doesn't do anything really good...


    It might be fun to play around with, but it's pretty subpar to heal or to DPS as a shockadin...
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