Turning Off Experience has ruined BGs!

[mapp]

I don't understand all your hate for twinks. 90% of all the fucking twinks are asking for a non-exp battlegroup merge, not for playing with the leveling guys.
Just merging the non-exp battlegroups would solve ALL issues. The twinks would be happy, the levelers would be happy, everyone would be happy. But since merging would be work, and Blizzard tries to avoid as much work as possible we prolly won't see a merge. Not even the biggest battlegroups get more than 1-2 games per day and 49+ pvp is dead on every bg. In small bgs every bracket is dead. The longer this state remains, the more people will quit the game or twinking. If Blizzard thinks, they are better off with not merging the battlegroups and loosing the twinkers as clients, their choise.

choice*

i like how you think blizzard likes to avoid work? when you have one of the best games of all time and you are playing it... i think you should be a developer and see about all the qqing noobs who have no idea how the game works.

[SalcN]

Twink's = ppl that cant win in a fair fight

/ L2P

[conscript]

I don't understand all your hate for twinks. 90% of all the fucking twinks are asking for a non-exp battlegroup merge, not for playing with the leveling guys.
Just merging the non-exp battlegroups would solve ALL issues. The twinks would be happy, the levelers would be happy, everyone would be happy. But since merging would be work, and Blizzard tries to avoid as much work as possible we prolly won't see a merge. Not even the biggest battlegroups get more than 1-2 games per day and 49+ pvp is dead on every bg. In small bgs every bracket is dead. The longer this state remains, the more people will quit the game or twinking. If Blizzard thinks, they are better off with not merging the battlegroups and loosing the twinkers as clients, their choise.

It took Blizzard forever to implement cross-realm bgs as opposed to the realm bgs that were in place during vanilla. A super cross-realm non-xp battlegroup would just be ridiculous for Blizzard to develop. In no way would that be cost productive for the company. The real answer to improving twink bg's is to increase interest in twinking either by Blizzard or the players themselves spreading the concept through word of mouth. The other option is to just let twinking die and no one would really be worse off because anyone who plays WoW to play a level 19 should really consider experiencing actual pvp content at higher levels.

[Woony]

choice*

i like how you think blizzard likes to avoid work? when you have one of the best games of all time and you are playing it... i think you should be a developer and see about all the qqing noobs who have no idea how the game works.

First, not every one is a native speaker on these INTERNATIONAL boards. Correcting typos lets you look dumb.
And second, yes they try to avoid work. They also said that in a bluepost. If you fix something/work on something, you will ALWAYS, in some way generate new problems. If they try to fix these new problems there will occur new problems etc...
Thats why they only balance in more major patches and not weekly and why they try to balance as little, as possible. In some ways, this translates to every aspect of developing the game. While they merge the battlegroups, there maybe occur new technical problems or bugs or whatever. They don't have a team of a few thousand men, if they would work on every problem they would simply drown in new problems generated by working on the old problems. So they make a priority list determed by win-cost. And it appears like twinks are at the bottom of this list.

/edit @ conscript
This is what i mean, its not profitable for them in their eyes, so they don't do it. My post was more a response to all the people saying twinks are crying, because they want back to one shotting lowies. No, they don't want that. They want to play the non-exp BGs, but with that huge que times its just impossible. And yes, the other option is to let twinking die. This option seems more profitable to Blizzard, so they don't support. So, unless the players manage do motivate new people to start twinking, twinking will die.

[conscript]

/edit @ conscript
This is what i mean, its not profitable for them in their eyes, so they don't do it. My post was more a response to all the people saying twinks are crying, because they want back to one shotting lowies. No, they don't want that. They want to play the non-exp BGs, but with that huge que times its just no fun.

I know an awful lot of twinks who played it more for destroying lowbies than pure competition, but I'm sure there is a healthy population of twinks who enjoy the competition of equally geared players. Most PvPers I know who do enjoy the equal competition choose to participate in Blizzard's ranked PvP systems at level 80. Really big cross-realm bg's for twinks would be cool, but it capping at low levels really isn't the goal of a progression game typically in Blizzard eyes. The non-xp gain feature could be a shift in ideals though so maybe they will dedicate some server space to such bgs although it is vastly out of my comprehension as to how they can dedicate entire pvp servers to service all US servers.

[Eroginous]

I know an awful lot of twinks who played it more for destroying lowbies than pure competition, but I'm sure there is a healthy population of twinks who enjoy the competition of equally geared players. Most PvPers I know who do enjoy the equal competition choose to participate in Blizzard's ranked PvP systems at level 80. Really big cross-realm bg's for twinks would be cool, but it capping at low levels really isn't the goal of a progression game typically in Blizzard eyes. The non-xp gain feature could be a shift in ideals though so maybe they will dedicate some server space to such bgs although it is vastly out of my comprehension as to how they can dedicate entire pvp servers to service all US servers.

You 'know an awful lot of twinks' who played it more for 'destroying' lowbies. Good for you. On my realm, I was the GM of a 150 member twink guild that only did the 29 bracket. Not a single one of us did it to 'destroy lowbies.' We had scheduled premade night were we would queue up in groups of 10 - 15 just to go against other twink guilds.

For us it was all about the competition. Things changed though when WOTLK came out, and a lot of people stopped playing their twinks.

For me though, as a GM, it was about doing 2 things. One, competing on the same level as other players, which doesn't happen at the level cap unless you roll FOTM class comps and faceroll to high ratings. And two, helping other players make twinks and get into organized pvp, something that NEVER happens at the level cap. It is either arena or afk in bgs.

Lowbie pvp is much more fun because your classes are more balanced with more of a focused rotation and talent build. You can pick any class and not only do well in 1v1 but in bgs. You aren't insta gibbed by certain classes 24/7 because they are FOTM re rolls.


With the addition of the no xp bgs myself and what is left of my twink guild were looking forward to the ability to queue for bgs and be like old times, twinks vs twinks, but so far queues aren't popping. I have spent hours in the queues just waiting for things to pop, and it doesn't happen. It has nothing to do with lack of a twink population, cuz they were popping all day last wednesday, but since the downtime thursday, they haven't popped once. Blizzard obviously disabled the non xp bgs until they resolve the instance issues.

[Woony]

Lowbie pvp is much more fun because your classes are more balanced with more of a focused rotation and talent build. You can pick any class and not only do well in 1v1 but in bgs. You aren't insta gibbed by certain classes 24/7 because they are FOTM re rolls.

This part looks a bit ironical, because everyone knows that hunters absolutly destroy everything else in the 29 bracket.
However for the 39+ Brackets and the smaller battlegroups twink population is a huge problem and it will maybe kill the brackets.

[Alenko]

Lowbie pvp is much more fun because your classes are more balanced with more of a focused rotation and talent build. You can pick any class and not only do well in 1v1 but in bgs. You aren't insta gibbed by certain classes 24/7 because they are FOTM re rolls.

lol? enhance shamans can 2 shot people at lvl 49, prot warrs have almost the same ability with shield slam.

[a1derful1]

If there aren't enough twinks to sustain their own battlegrounds then it looks as if twinking isn't as popular as you would like to think.
People can queue for bgs whenever they want regardless of lvl and to say they should only do it at x8-x9 lvl is narrowminded. I'm glad to see twinks die off....burned....crumbled....ashes blowing away in the wind.

Oh....and if you wanna say that twinking is super popular but is spread across several brackets, then by all means get a twinking lvl standard and unite to make one spectacular twink bracket so there are many bgs for twinks to queue for.

If it doesn't happen?

I have no sympathy for you.

[Eroginous]

This part looks a bit ironical, because everyone knows that hunters absolutly destroy everything else in the 29 bracket.
However for the 39+ Brackets and the smaller battlegroups twink population is a huge problem and it will maybe kill the brackets.

Actually, I have never been 'absolutely destroyed' by any class. I play a shadow priest, a feral druid, a resto shammy, and an affliction warlock, and I never have issues with any one particular class, not even hunters.

The thing you seem to forget, is that when you are geared, and skilled, like any good twink is, you don't get 'absolutely destroyed' by anyone.

But if you are at the bottom of a bracket in your whites and greens with empty slots, then yes, you are going to get 2 shot by any twink. Why don't people understand this?


And also, it isn't a matter of there not being enough twinks to get a BG going. How many times have you queued up for a bg and gotten in with only 2 players on each side? Then the BG starts and each side takes 5 mins to fill out?

This isn't happening in non xp bgs, at all, in any bracket. It is because blizzard turned off the non xp bgs. It isn't because of a population issue. How else would you explain being able to do full 10v10 WSG that last 20 mins each the day after 3.2 goes live, but then as soon as they take the realms down for 2 hours and bring them back up, BGs are no longer queuing?

[theredviola]

Your twink tears are tasty.

To bad, so sad that you can't pick un-fair fights again is it?

[palahnuikk]

:'(

Unfuckinglucky.

[Modez]

The reason I haven't done BGs pre level cap in vanilla to today is due to twinks.

1. They come on the forums saying 'well you can make one too!'
2. They come on the forums saying 'twinks are not invinvible!'
3. They come on the forums and say 'twinks are fun!'

1. Some people want to BG. Some people don't want to ahve to spend 6 months on a some level 29 toon jsut to be able to BG.
2. They are not invincible, but you cannot say you don't have an advantage with BiS gear for the level fully enchanted.
3. They are fun because somehow it lets you feel superior to 'all the bads out there', when really it's like using a cheat code in a game and fighting against others who elect not to cheat.

I think this will make more people do BGs as they level. I think this will spark more BG interest at later levels from newer players. I think this refocuses the game into having a PvP and PvE leveling and progression path. This is a good thing. Enjoy the fact you got to annihilate other classes for 4+ years. But game mechanics which allow people to have unfair advantages over others are going to continue to be put to the wayside - especially when it comes to a new player trying to level and experience the game. Being 2-3 shot by a twink in a BG would turn that player off from not only BGs to level, but quite possibly the game in general.

[Scorage]

Blizzard statement: We never openly supported twinks, we just allowed them to happen. Now, we are supporting them with the turning XP gains on/off option.
If there isn't enough Twink BG's, that shows how much of a niche of gameplay twinks are.

This sounds as a bitchy statement, turning and twisting of words from Blizzard once again, to twink ears.

For all others, it is what it is. Twinks became known and accepted this patch. They have their own BG bracket, to a sense. It is a good change. I've also heard how much this was accepted by some twink owners too, but sad thing is, twinking is not common.

If you want to own some leveling greens people in BG's, you got what you deserved with this change.
If you want to fight against other twinks, then sadly you got what was coming with the change. Not enough twinks.

[Ahven]

NEWSFLASH. Level to 80 and start pvping instead of pretending you are at lvl 19, 29, 39 or 49. Twinking is just for retards who can't play the game.

[Grazzy]

''Twink comes from an acronym T.W.I.N.K. "Teenage, White, Into No Kink."

[Ccobalt]

So gusy...

Should I try to level a new toon when you can get exp from bg's nowadays?

[Eroginous]

Your twink tears are tasty.

To bad, so sad that you can't pick un-fair fights again is it?

What twink tears? Twinks have been around since vanilla wow, probably longer than you have even played. I am not sad about this change, and I am not crying about bgs not being available atm. They are obviously down because there was an issue from the patch, it has nothing to do with lack of twinks. As I have said more than once in this thread. I was able to queue up for a WSG at level 29 with the xp turned off. I repeat, I was able to queue up for a WSG at level 29 with the xp turned off. This was the DAY AFTER 3.2 went live.

It was great. We had a full 10v10 and it lasted the entire 20 mins. No level 20s were crying about twinks pwning them. No one was sitting in the gy telling everyone else to let the other team win. No one was kill farming or graveyard camping. It was the best damn bg I have played since before WOTLK came out.

Now, since thursday, after the server down time, the no xp bgs haven't popped at all, and the xp bgs (I have twinks I am leveling through bgs) have been taking 30-60 mins to pop a BG. It isn't just twinks that are having issues with bgs, but they are getting it a little worse than non twinks.

So take your anti twink sentiment and file it in the garbage can where your opinions belong.

The reason I haven't done BGs pre level cap in vanilla to today is due to twinks.

1. They come on the forums saying 'well you can make one too!'
2. They come on the forums saying 'twinks are not invinvible!'
3. They come on the forums and say 'twinks are fun!'

1. Some people want to BG. Some people don't want to ahve to spend 6 months on a some level 29 toon jsut to be able to BG.
2. They are not invincible, but you cannot say you don't have an advantage with BiS gear for the level fully enchanted.
3. They are fun because somehow it lets you feel superior to 'all the bads out there', when really it's like using a cheat code in a game and fighting against others who elect not to cheat.

I think this will make more people do BGs as they level. I think this will spark more BG interest at later levels from newer players. I think this refocuses the game into having a PvP and PvE leveling and progression path. This is a good thing. Enjoy the fact you got to annihilate other classes for 4+ years. But game mechanics which allow people to have unfair advantages over others are going to continue to be put to the wayside - especially when it comes to a new player trying to level and experience the game. Being 2-3 shot by a twink in a BG would turn that player off from not only BGs to level, but quite possibly the game in general.

1. You can make a twink in less than a week. Especially a 19 twink. Most of us have friends online, after all this is a social game. All the twink gear is EASY to get. It comes from quests, drops in dungeons, comes from pvp rewards, and sometimes comes from AH. The enchants are easy to get too. If the non twinks that always QQ would just TRY to make a twink, they would be SURPRISED at how easy the shit is to do.

2. Twinks are as easy to kill as anyone. It might take 2-3 non twinks a little bit to focus fire one down, but since the bug fix twinks are easier to kill than ever. - 1k hp across the board easy. Also, twinks are a BALANCE of stam/dps stats. If you twink to have high HP you lose a lot of dps stats. If you twink to have high dps stats, you lose a lot of HP. It is simple math.

3. Twinks are fun because at the lower brackets all classes are more balanced. They don't have 25 keybinds just for one spec and auto win buttons like level 80s do. People twink because that is what the game was designed to allow the to do, IE have the potential to get the best gear available for your level and enchant it. No one is exploiting the game to make a twink. No one is playing outside the game design to make a twink. And no one is doing anything that is impossible for other people to do.

Here: look at this armory, everything on this toon is EASY to get, except the arena grandmaster, and it isn't even that hard.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Willyshatner

On my secondary account, no expansions added. No BoAs, nothing. I even made him at a time when my primary account was inactive. Didn't have any money, I farmed everything and leveled all by myself.

NEWSFLASH. Level to 80 and start pvping instead of pretending you are at lvl 19, 29, 39 or 49. Twinking is just for retards who can't play the game.

No, twinking is for players that want to enjoy more than just the endgame and level grinding aspects of the game. I have 2 level 80s, 2 more that are in progress, and approx 9 twinks accross 2 accounts, most of which are finished. One of my level 80s is a pve resto druid w/ feral kitty offspec and 3/5 t8 with various other ilvl 213 226 gearz. My second level 80 is a pvp mage with full deadly (druid has full boomkin deadly too) with ulduar weaps.

I don't belong to a raiding guild, and I played frost/ret in 2s to get my rating for full deadly.

If you want to know the truth, most people who twink do it because they are bored with the endgame. They are either at a point where they aren't progressing due to lack of new content, or they are just unhappy with the current state of the end game. I know MANY players with level capped toons that are like that.

But I am glad to see that the old anti twink sentiments are still alive after 3.2, though they are now as misplaced as ever.

[Alienganja]

Twinks were fine...I don't mind dying a few times to someone who's electing to stay there....you'll eventually get by them in to the next bracket. I kind of see twinks like the bosses of leveling through BGing.....think about it..you're not really doing anything hard besides participating. I would compare leveling in BG's to grinding on mobs...you'll eventually reach some mobs you can't kill and they'll daze you as you run away and die.

Twinks should be reinstated, given a skull at level x9 and nerfed to the ground after several patches.

lol, sorry I made myself laugh with that one.

[Modez]

1. You can make a twink in less than a week. Especially a 19 twink. Most of us have friends online, after all this is a social game. All the twink gear is EASY to get. It comes from quests, drops in dungeons, comes from pvp rewards, and sometimes comes from AH. The enchants are easy to get too. If the non twinks that always QQ would just TRY to make a twink, they would be SURPRISED at how easy the shit is to do.

2. Twinks are as easy to kill as anyone. It might take 2-3 non twinks a little bit to focus fire one down, but since the bug fix twinks are easier to kill than ever. - 1k hp across the board easy. Also, twinks are a BALANCE of stam/dps stats. If you twink to have high HP you lose a lot of dps stats. If you twink to have high dps stats, you lose a lot of HP. It is simple math.

3. Twinks are fun because at the lower brackets all classes are more balanced. They don't have 25 keybinds just for one spec and auto win buttons like level 80s do. People twink because that is what the game was designed to allow the to do, IE have the potential to get the best gear available for your level and enchant it. No one is exploiting the game to make a twink. No one is playing outside the game design to make a twink. And no one is doing anything that is impossible for other people to do.

Here: look at this armory, everything on this toon is EASY to get, except the arena grandmaster, and it isn't even that hard.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Willyshatner

On my secondary account, no expansions added. No BoAs, nothing. I even made him at a time when my primary account was inactive. Didn't have any money, I farmed everything and leveled all by myself.

I will only address these points since they were based off my statements.

1. Since I do not have a twink, and have not for a couple years, maybe now you can build one in a week. I spent 4 months on one before to get BiS for it. But your counterargument here did not actually address my point, which I coupled into points one and two. A person should not have to roll a twink to be competitive in lower level BGs. But I will further the discussion in point two...

2. "Twinks are just as easy to kill as anyone. It might take 2-3 non twinks a little bit to focus fire one down..." That my friend is not easy. A lower level BG should be built around a match with people in similar gear. When I BG at 35, and I run into another person at 35, I should have an equal shot to be able to take them down in a 1 on 1, as you say the game is more balanced in earlier levels assuming equivalent gear and skill. Having to keep 1-2 others with you at all times since there is a twink in the BG does not make the BG fun. It especially doesn't make it fun for someone new to the game that wishes to level up in BGs. Being able to plow through people 1 on 1 if you are a twink is not skill or balance, it is a person wishing to feel superior over others in a game. While this does derive pleasure, that doesn't make it right.

3. With the changes, I would agree that now nobody with a twink who plays the twink only BG is doing anything unfair. I ahve no problem with 'twink only' BGs whatsoever. The game is not necessarily balanced at lower levels. Some of the abilities that classes get, maybe their only defensive abilities are learned at different levels. Your usage of the term balanced cannot apply.

EX:
Blink is learned at 20. Iceblock is learned at 30.
Freezing trap at 20.
Barkskin is level 44. Bear is learned at 10.
Earthbind is level 6.

Different classes getting different abilities at different level ranges does not equal balance. Having less buttons to press does not equal balance either. This notion of balance is absurd.