PvP Ret Paladins, discuss.

[meag333]

SoR is garbage, the seal does not crit - thats pretty much the end of the argument. Speccing into holy first tier for pvp is also terrible. Using Seal of Vengeance/Corruption is completely useless in arena. Command is unfortunately currently the optimal option for arena / pvp

Im pretty sure they can. The burst from SoR + SotP is pretty damn decent. And the judgements hit hard. See this is where some paladins will adapt and other will try to stick to the old way or give up all together. And for early for someone to say SoR is the weakest DPS seal, has obviously not seen the seal with SoTP in a raid. SoR does put out decent pressure.

[Mysmere]

Im pretty sure they can. The burst from SoR + SotP is pretty damn decent. And the judgements hit hard. See this is where some paladins will adapt and other will try to stick to the old way or give up all together. And for early for someone to say SoR is the weakest DPS seal, has obviously not seen the seal with SoTP in a raid. SoR does put out decent pressure.

im tired of adapting. ret since end of classic. time to fotm.

[decyphier]

eh, i don't know. i tested SoR for about 2 hours and it seemed the same as SoC. the judgement damage was better, but the overall damage was not that good. i know blizzard is eventually going to fix the damage, hopefully. they will eventually get tired of every one crying, and once again.. listen to the player base.

sov's damage is amazing, but i don't know.. cleansing those stacks =/

[greatrichie]

Glyph and spec SoR until they buff SoC.

For everyone saying SoC is better, you can continue to under perform, but where the money is made is on demand burst. SoR's massive(comparatively) judge is the best thing we have going on. And glyphed and specced, the seal isn't too shabby either.

Granted atm judging SoR procs 2 seals, which will probably be fixed, but it'll still be the best thing we have in our arsenal.

[Ronark]

Glyph and spec SoR until they buff SoC.

For everyone saying SoC is better, you can continue to under perform, but where the money is made is on demand burst. SoR's massive(comparatively) judge is the best thing we have going on. And glyphed and specced, the seal isn't too shabby either.

Granted atm judging SoR procs 2 seals, which will probably be fixed, but it'll still be the best thing we have in our arsenal.

Glyphing for SoR doesn't increase the Judgement damage.

Also, if you spec SoR, you cannot gain Imp HoJ nor Imp SS.

[Mysmere]

Glyphing for SoR doesn't increase the Judgement damage.

Also, if you spec SoR, you cannot gain Imp HoJ nor Imp SS.

but you can get 30% off fear duration.

[greatrichie]

Glyphing for SoR doesn't increase the Judgement damage.

Also, if you spec SoR, you cannot gain Imp HoJ nor Imp SS.

Taking defensive talents is pointless if you don't have the damage to kill someone. The best offense in todays pvp is definitely not a good defense.

[Ronark]

Taking defensive talents is pointless if you don't have the damage to kill someone. The best offense in todays pvp is definitely not a good defense.

With the changes to Resilience, its what Blizzard plans to make Arenas- No more 30 second fights.

[Mysmere]

Taking defensive talents is pointless if you don't have the damage to kill someone. The best offense in todays pvp is definitely not a good defense.

i wouldn't call imp hoj a defensive talent...

With the changes to Resilience, its what Blizzard plans to make Arenas- No more 30 second fights.

they tried to make games longer... how did you get shorter out of reducing all damage...

[Arganaut]

I found, without any clear stats to back this up..

SOC for short fights involving adds
SOR for short single target fights
SOV for longer single target boss fights where switching is not needed and you can sustain 5 stacks

So a PVE build of 5/11/55 you have a point spare so you may as well throw this into SOC anyway just so you can use it if you need too. Forget Vindication, let the Warriors give that shit.

In both PVE and PVP I think this will ween out those fotm's and I found it quite exciting having to watch for AOW procs, switch seals depending on what or whom I was fighting. It was especially nice to pelt an excorism at those darn frost mages once more.

Burst has been reduced for sure, but with effective excorisms, lower CD on CS, PVP wasn't as painful as I thought. Now to try Arena.

[ergolito]

My rogue with 400 resi 19800 health still goes down in a single HoJ.

[Varius]

Yeah, if nothing else it feels like you have alot more to do now with the 4 sec CS cooldown and being able to use exorcism on everyone.

[decyphier]

Glyphing for SoR doesn't increase the Judgement damage.

Also, if you spec SoR, you cannot gain Imp HoJ nor Imp SS.

stop saying you can't get imp hoj. because you can. it's not any different either if you go this build, a lot of people are. it's better anyways, imo. i'd rather have IMP hoj then 30% fear/disorient reduction.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#scZVGzuMZVfdxbIuGdIbsz

[Ronark]

stop saying you can't get imp hoj. because you can. it's not any different either if you go this build, a lot of people are. it's better anyways, imo. i'd rather have IMP hoj then 30% fear/disorient reduction.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#scZVGzuMZVfdxbIuGdIbsz

Thats also not max SotP- you need 5/5 SotP for SoR to come close to being viable.

[redderz]

The biggest difference I've noticed so far is, its easier to spot the bad paladins. I can actually kill some of them now. They appear to be running around with the "wot me no smash face?" speech bubble around their heads as they fail to understand why they cant demolish something with 3 keys.

The good ones, well, they still demolish stuff relatively easy.

[Azharok]

The good ones, well, they still demolish stuff relatively easy.

Only cauz we pick our targets !

*evil laugh*

Dunno it seems that I manage to kill stuff at about the same speed as before with SoV. We deal smaller hits but LOTS of them. so I guess works out alright. Killed a couple of discs with SoV they where wasting their GCD dispelling me and I was whacking them real good , stumbled accross a couple of other paladins some with SoR some with Soc, AFAIK SoC paladins weren't a threat to me. SoR is kinda sneaky however....

[Metro87]

Sorry guys Sor all the way in arenas some of you are over analizing (this isnt world of spelling), when i walk into an arena and crit something for 1400 with a judgment its time to adapt. I switched to sor specd and glyphed and turned my twos around. I was only playing around the 2kish bracket cus currently ppl are paying me for weapons/shoulders ect. but the warriors/pallys/druids i played were all pushing a healthy amount of stam and most likely 600+ resil. When i pop wings and judge for 5.8k followed by 2 1500s right under it i should automatically know that this is the seal to use in pvp, if this does not click for me i am a retard. Dummy dps is close on sor and sov, i was pulling 3.5k without incorporating exo or conc or wings, but the burst speaks for itself. Pallies use SoR in arenas until blizzard breaks it or walk into every arena with SoC on and show your opponents you have downs.

[zcks]

Ehh of they would just buff the judgment damage of seal of command it would be fine, it already does much more damage than sor per hit & it can crit it's just the damn judgment being so weak that makes it bad. maybe if they were to have soc do 40% weapon damage per hit & double on critical hits it would be better, or they could buff the judgment damage by 40-50% that would bring it in line. Or maybe they could make soc hits & judgments always crit when the target is stunned/ cc'd.

[Archegonus]

An what about to include some Armor penetration gems on your gear if you use SoC? or some Spell penetration gems on your gear if you use SoR?

I know armor pen isn't so good to paladins as for warrs or rogues, but, considering that for SoC you'll be probably hitting physycals mor often than with SoR or SoV, and that CS is a melee physycal strike.

I'm still wondering what seal to use for arena... I do BG's, but even with SoV I'm still 1st or 2nd. I want to try resocketing my PVP gear whit these gems for a SoC and a SoR build, even so, I would like to know what you think about this.

PS: Resocketing is just for a few gems (3, 4 tops) not all of them.

Regards.

[Adamson]

My rogue with 400 resi 19800 health still goes down in a single HoJ.

maybe you should start wearing ~700 resilience like everyone else has to.

If I wore 400 resilience I would complain about rogues killing me in a stun combo too.

Or for that matter a warlock in 3-4 GCDS.

You do realize you're wearing as much resilience as people did at level 70, maybe that's your problem?