Is blizzard selling out???

[Deleted]

First, let me congratulate you on being the person who, out of all the nonsense posts that have been on here lately, got me to register just to correct them.

Maybe read the thread next time before making accounts to reply to "nonsense" posts, i'll quote it for you again:

Yeah i was talking EQ2 there, i wouldn't assume blizzard is looking at EQ1 for ideas If they are looking at franchises that old, they would be better of looking at UO, Nexus or even TRO

FYI "when people still played it", EQ1 stil lhas a playerbase of over 200k players, EQ2 little over 300k.

[HitRefresh]

Alright, say it takes you 1 month to do raid 1, 1 month to do raid 2, 1 month to do raid 3, and 1 month to do raid 4.

Player 1 starts raiding like a week after release, goes through raid 1 and 2 in 2 months.

Player 2 starts raiding at raiding when he gets done raid 2. Player 1 is now starting raid 3.

Player 2 takes a month to do raid 1, takes a month to do raid 2, now he finally gets caught up, but now player 3 finished raid 4.


The point is the newer players will probably take a long time to gear up if nothing is done to make getting to the level of progression the original players are at easier. Thus, they made Conquest emblems drop everywhere, so people can easily gear into Ulduar gear to start ToC. And ToC was made more entry friendly so people can actually raid easier. People who don't want easy raiding can do heroic mode. Everyone is happy (or should be).

[ryyu]

Blizzard have sold out since day one, there suposed to there a Company, thats the point, to sell out and make cash, there not some cult Indie band playing with trash cans and singing only in latin, there a big buisniss out to make money. If they HADDENT sold out to this point then god there doing it wrong.

Blizzard is not the peoples company, but what ever there doing they do it well, i cant think of another MMO that after 5 years is as news worthy, or hell judging from the pics of deathwing as exciting as wow.

[HitRefresh]

Vanilla was great none of this casual crap back then you had to work for your epix and killing a boss was something that was really hard.. o and whitout vanilla you would have nothing.. vanilla was nr1

This is why Retribution Paladins look bad.

I bet you weren't even Retribution in vanilla.

[Deleted]

Another thing with the "easy" content is that back in vanilla days, theorycrafting was stil lvery little and people didn't fully know their classes like they do now, not everyone and their mum was reading things like EJ forums in vanilla...

What may have seemed hard at the time (AQ40, Naxx40, even BWL in the start days), might just be considered "easy" if it would be released at say the current state of the game, making things so hard now as they where hard back then, would probably make them impossible to kill...

[_Vareesa_]

yeah how do u supposed a normal person with a life would raid naxx40 or even aq20 in vanilla? heres the answer : it cant

Vanilla wow was a elitist piece of crap and we should be happy that its gone

Tbh, the people who act like elitists and bitch on the forums about scrubs often don't even beat "elite" stuff and are often 'just above avarage'. the last people you hear bitching about WotLK being to easy is the people who take the game truly to the highest level. Although the "number ones" cleared the Hardmode content there are still quite some guilds that are trying with Agalon 25man and Yogg+0, by the time the majority of those hardcore guilds have managed to beat that the new hardcore modes of the Coliseum will be available already and new challenges await there. There's plenty of stuff that those hardcore players can do and there's plenty of content the casual players can do, and they won't change that in Cataclysm.

Hell, if Blizzard indeed possibly stops making HM content, the hardcore players just move to another game that provides challenges, without any bitching or anything. That's how it works

[graarrggrr]

just think of all the things outside of what blizzard does that makes raiding easier.

addons : Omen, DBM/Bigwigs, theorycrafting (tankpoints), etc...

websites : EJ, Tankspot, Warcraftmovies

the community in general has made raiding easier just with the amount of info out there the day a new instance or raid comes out to help you learn all the strats.

[Deleted]

Generally it is not the "hardcore" players whining about these changes, they are just enjoying the hard mode content etc and most of them couldn't give a rat's ass about who wears what kind of epic gear.

The whiners are usually little scrubs that want to sound "cool" to other little scrubs, so they claim they have cleared everyting and how "zomg easy" it was, while in reality they are usually still stuck on their blue/naxx10 geared characters, with no gems and enchants on their gear and no clue how to play their class.

this(!)

[Eyerai]

Generally it is not the "hardcore" players whining about these changes, they are just enjoying the hard mode content etc and most of them couldn't give a rat's ass about who wears what kind of epic gear.

The whiners are usually little scrubs that want to sound "cool" to other little scrubs, so they claim they have cleared everyting and how "zomg easy" it was, while in reality they are usually still stuck on their blue/naxx10 geared characters, with no gems and enchants on their gear and no clue how to play their class.

Well said.

And generally posting on a topic where the person uses more then one question mark on thier topic title hurts my insidy parts. :'(

[Theodekk]

oh noes we all have to quit now. NAO!

[Ilyma]

I was far from hardcore when I started WoW, I was like 14. Too busy working with school and out with my friends. Yet I was still able to raid, it just took me a bit longer to get to the point where I could.

Excuses for not being able to raid in vanilla is only based on lazyness and frustration that they couldent get what and where they wanted quick enough.

Anyway more to the topic.
I think its a brilliant that Blizzard takes ideas from EQ2, as it is a game focused on quality. The only reason I dont play EQ2 anymore is that the gameplay was so awesome that nobody really wanted to slack, take time to chat about other things than the game and joke around. Being social while playing is very important to me, and thats one of the major reasons I still play WoW. The community has that kind of social activity.

[Durenek]

Is it me or is blizzard seriously making wow for kids and changing the game over to follow Ever Quest ? I mean seriously look at the way the brought in LFG who did it frist EQ Look at Path of Titan then look at EQ's set up Changing SP and MP5 again look at EQ then look to raiding if anyone knows EQ they will tell you their raiding is epic....No room for fail ask all the pro's what its like to fail so much on a fight you lose xp and you go from max lvl down a lvl and can't wear your epic's any more.... But my real point is this is where blizzard wanted to be thus you look at BWL AQ20/40 and Naxx Then look at SSC and BT PRE NERF's....They loved raiding and gave us raiders something to drool about and it was hats off so they nerf everything and added badge gear that put you to the point you shoudl walk into half of BT without even breaking a sweat...Then it was nerf after nerf after nerf...
They won the hearts of 10 millionish cause they made the game respectablely hard and now they sell all that out to be a cartoon EQ with OMG easy raids that should insult a 10 years olds thinking ablity and 60% of the ppl are to stupid to realize how far they are taking it down...So again my question is blizzard selling out or is there a bigger picture i'm missing....And plz if you say its money save your reply cause its a Fact you lose the hard core and there aren't any more ppl to carry the lazy ppl they will slowly fade off the game and whatever is left will follow friends once they find a new better game

You sir, are a butthole.
If you dont like the game, don't play it.
If you dont like where the game is going, dont buy the next xpac.

Terrible troll is terrible.

[Aran]

I (kind of) feel you. But as said, this topic has been around a lot these days. And it will be ever after.
Just to say something (kind of) constructive:

Your prediction is not that accurate. I would say Blizzard won the hearts of 10 Million players, because the game was easy. If you played EQ (which you obviously did. I'M talking about Everquest 1 here.) compare the introductions into the system. WoW set a trend by making a MMO "easy to grasp, hard to master". That was their inofficial slogan. All they did is to realize, that "easy to understand, easy to master" would drag home even more subscriptions, arguing that it would be "not so nice" if only some people would participate in end-game content while other can't.
That leads to your actual prediction. The facts are:
- "Hardcore players" are only a small percentage of the player base.
- If that small part leaves WoW (and I bet they won't all leave, else they would have allready) it's no real loss for Blizzard. They will get times more new subscribers (mainly "casuals" who heard that this game was colmpex, yet easy, fun, all that)
- If the game get's more easy, there's no need to "carry". The "medicore" will be the new "hardcore". In the end, everyone who knows how to doubbleclick will be able to tell a new player how to progress. And they will, eventually.

So, in the end: Yes, it's about money.

All those bullying muppets in this thread with "aw jeez not this shit again"-bullshit are making fun of someone who actually has a valid point. And Arkad pretty much agrees (kind of) with OP. You know what? Big surprise, i do agree with them both. Thats why i quit the game.

I loved WoW because i knew that i wouldnt see end-game if i slacked, i knew that if i worked my ass off together with others i would see it. I really hate whole "hardmodes" concept cos its doing the same thing all over again just harder = boring in my personal opinion. Its like playing through Half-Life 2 to the end, then pump up the difficulty to "hard" and do it all over again: you've seen it all, there is no surprise, all you get is more mobs in more places and mobs hit harder. Same goes with WoW hardmodes, except you can add "coordination" and "timing" to it, but its like playing Half-Life 2 with some DDR-patch to it.

WoW stopped being cool for me when i saw the end boss on easy mode. Call vanilla "elitist" all you want, but it was trully epic and rewarding to see Ragnaros for the first time. Doing Yogg+0 is tough as hell, but its the same damn Yogg in the same damn room, yelling the same damn emotes. zZZzz.

Xbox360 here i come. More fun for the money tbh (not to mention less time consuming and less obligating. You can actually go to the toilet whenever u want, or go to sleep :O )

[Deleted]

Look at it this way:

They started out relatively small and for the "old people" they made WoW just for you so you liked most things about it.

As the grew and got more customers, a lot with different views and preferences, it was bound to get more generic and the things the veterans liked got overshadowed with the more generic, liked-tolerated by everyone but loved by almost none stuff.

At the same time they can't purely focus on casuals either as they also want to appeal to the more hardcore players and everyones whining and isn't perfectly happy: the casuals because they can't get the fancy mounts and some higher level gear with farming heroics and BGs and the hardcores because casuals get too much for "free". But overall, everyone still gets something so they keep paying and whining.

[superstargoddess]

All those bullying muppets in this thread with "aw jeez not this shit again"-bullshit are making fun of someone who actually has a valid point. And Arkad pretty much agrees (kind of) with OP. You know what? Big surprise, i do agree with them both. Thats why i quit the game.

I loved WoW because i knew that i wouldnt see end-game if i slacked, i knew that if i worked my ass off together with others i would see it. I really hate whole "hardmodes" concept cos its doing the same thing all over again just harder = boring in my personal opinion. Its like playing through Half-Life 2 to the end, then pump up the difficulty to "hard" and do it all over again: you've seen it all, there is no surprise, all you get is more mobs in more places and mobs hit harder. Same goes with WoW hardmodes, except you can add "coordination" and "timing" to it, but its like playing Half-Life 2 with some DDR-patch to it.

WoW stopped being cool for me when i saw the end boss on easy mode. Call vanilla "elitist" all you want, but it was trully epic and rewarding to see Ragnaros for the first time. Doing Yogg+0 is tough as hell, but its the same damn Yogg in the same damn room, yelling the same damn emotes. zZZzz.

Xbox360 here i come. More fun for the money tbh (not to mention less time consuming and less obligating. You can actually go to the toilet whenever u want, or go to sleep :O )

I know, but damn, how many of these types of threads are we going to have?

[Strawberry]

Is it me or is blizzard seriously making wow for kids and changing the game over to follow Ever Quest ? I mean seriously look at the way the brought in LFG who did it frist EQ Look at Path of Titan then look at EQ's set up Changing SP and MP5 again look at EQ then look to raiding if anyone knows EQ they will tell you their raiding is epic....No room for fail ask all the pro's what its like to fail so much on a fight you lose xp and you go from max lvl down a lvl and can't wear your epic's any more.... But my real point is this is where blizzard wanted to be thus you look at BWL AQ20/40 and Naxx Then look at SSC and BT PRE NERF's....They loved raiding and gave us raiders something to drool about and it was hats off so they nerf everything and added badge gear that put you to the point you shoudl walk into half of BT without even breaking a sweat...Then it was nerf after nerf after nerf...
They won the hearts of 10 millionish cause they made the game respectablely hard and now they sell all that out to be a cartoon EQ with OMG easy raids that should insult a 10 years olds thinking ablity and 60% of the ppl are to stupid to realize how far they are taking it down...So again my question is blizzard selling out or is there a bigger picture i'm missing....And plz if you say its money save your reply cause its a Fact you lose the hard core and there aren't any more ppl to carry the lazy ppl they will slowly fade off the game and whatever is left will follow friends once they find a new better game

God damnit, learn to type, your wall of text was impossible to read.

[Deleted]

All those bullying muppets in this thread with "aw jeez not this shit again"-bullshit are making fun of someone who actually has a valid point. And Arkad pretty much agrees (kind of) with OP. You know what? Big surprise, i do agree with them both. Thats why i quit the game.

WoW stopped being cool for me when i saw the end boss on easy mode. Call vanilla "elitist" all you want, but it was trully epic and rewarding to see Ragnaros for the first time. Doing Yogg+0 is tough as hell, but its the same damn Yogg in the same damn room, yelling the same damn emotes. zZZzz.

So what endbosses where easy then? Let's sum them all up.

Ragnaros: In essence a pretty easy fight, it just needed Fire Resistance gear farming which could take a while.
Nefarian: It was challenging, but after having gone through razor, vael and chromaggus, it wasn't truly "hard" (most people actually found chromaggus harder /wiped longer on him then nef), it also took a long time to kit everyone with an onyxia scale cloak.
Hakkar: For people new to the game he might have been hard, for people who had already cleared BWL he was a joke.
Ossirian: Again, challenging for new people, a joke for people who cleared BWL.
C'Thun: Was unkillable for a long time due to being bugged, after the fix many guilds got him pretty quick, but he was still properly challenging.
Kel'Thuzad60: Epic fight, was truly hard at the time for the few who managed tor each him before tbc.

So there where 2, arguably 3 endbosses in vanilla that where considered really hard, and not just a timesink because you had to farm resistance gear etc.

Malchezaar: Was truly challenging before the nerfs, most guilds took a while to kill him.
Gruul: Was hard in the start before he got nerfed.
Magtheridon: Was hard in the start before he got nerfed.
Vashj: Was really hard before the nerfs.
Kael'Thas: Was really hard before the nerfs.
Archimonde: Was in essence not really hard, but yet required perfect execution.
Illidan: Was proper hard for most guilds, took a good while of wiping.
Zul'Jin: Was challenging for people still in t4/t5 content, easy enough for people in t6 content.
Kil'Jaeden: Really hard, required a lot of dedication to kill before the hp nerf to sunwell.

So, in TBC we had 7 hard endbosses.


Now in WOTLK we got introduced to hardmodes, for a fair comparison we will have to compare the hardmode bosses to previous expansions.

Kel'Thuzad80: A roll-over, a joke.
Sartharion+3: Not uber challenging, but in the start of wotlk was still considered hard, especially on 10man.
Malygos: Quite easy, most guilds roll over this.
Yogg+0/1: Really intense, probably the single most hard fight (+0) ever made in wow.
Anub'Rhekan HM: We can't tell yet
Arthas HM: We can't tell yet.

So, we had 2 bosses that could be classified as hard already, with most likely 2 more to add to that, putting the endboss level over vanilla and under tbc in difficulty, i yet don't know where you are basing your statement on.

Apart form that, i don't think you have done any hardmodes yet in ulduar, because they are not "just the same boss", most hardmodes make bosses a completely different fight (council, mimiron, freya, vezax, yogg, fl, xt002).

[Psi]

Normal raids are Piss easy. Hard modes have the hard content.

I'd willing to be a lot more money that the OP is:
<OP> Jenkins
rather then
<OP> Deaths Demise.

[loftus]

Generally it is not the "hardcore" players whining about these changes, they are just enjoying the hard mode content etc and most of them couldn't give a rat's ass about who wears what kind of epic gear.

The whiners are usually little scrubs that want to sound "cool" to other little scrubs, so they claim they have cleared everyting and how "zomg easy" it was, while in reality they are usually still stuck on their blue/naxx10 geared characters, with no gems and enchants on their gear and no clue how to play their class.

i think i've found my perfect sig.

great post, sums up a huge amount of the wow playerbase

[talitu]

wow has always been a dumbed down easy mode version of EQ, nothings changed.

blizz took a game and turned into into accessible entertainment, every time some "wow was my first mmo emo kid" pops in with zomg epics are soo easy now it just makes me chuckle. the first raid in wow rewarded epics to people who could walk out of the fire, i mean bravo really stretching raid dynamic there guys!

ive had a lot of fun in wow dont get me wrong and i still enjoy watching it, but i wonder sometimes if its killed this genre