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  1. #1

    Faction Champions tough comp

    First, can the faction champion fight be soft reset for a new comp?

    Second, here is the comp and 10 man make up we had last week. Can someone give me some tips on this.

    the champions
    Hunter (I think BM, pet was immune to fear)
    Resto Shaman
    Holy Paladin

    Our group
    Priest (PVE shadow but tried his disc pvp spec some as well)
    Paladin (prot but used PVP holy spec some as well)
    resto druid
    warrior (did not have an MS spec)
    destro lock
    afflic lock
    enhance shaman
    resto shaman
    survival hunter
    feral druid

    The problem we were having was that our cc was being removed by the paladin, our fears were breaking from the tremor totem. The only reliable cc we had was cyclone. A big part of the problem is the lack of PVPers who are not use to using abilities.

    The mage was counter spelling our healers and sheeping people.
    The hunter wasn't much of an issue
    The pally and shaman were removing each others cc and healing each other
    The warrior and DK apparently were joined at the hip so they focused down a squishy pretty quickly and dear lord when bloodlust popped they wreaked havoc until we could get mass dispell off.

    Our general strat was

    resto druid cyclone => roots on the warrior
    feral druid cyclone => roots on the DK
    enhance shaman hex pally
    afflic lock fear mage to start then fear the pally after hex broke
    everyone dps the shaman

    in general we never could find a good cc chain that would
    a. keep the healers from healing
    b. keep the two melee dps from eating our faces
    c. keep the mage from sheeping and counter spelling

    we tried focusing the shaman first, the pally first (once until we realized he was just going to bubble and heal to full)
    we tried focusing the mage because he had the least health (ice block ftl)

    by the time we could get the shaman down, we were usually down 2-3 including at least 1 healer.

    Overall it was a nightmare of a group due to the types of cc we had versus the dispells they had.

    What do you think about the season 7 shaman set?
    It looks like what would happen if one of those big rock giants from Outlands mated with Spiderman.


  2. #2

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    worst thing you don't have a rogue or a warr with MS spec.

    yesterday evening we downed a similar comp (we had rogue and retri as melee anyway), we just focused on the rogue first. 50% less healing means you need to keep CCed one healer and burn down one dps. one healer alone cant sustain the burst, i can assure you.

    we downed rogue because he was all the time FoKing and putting wound on all raid. after that their dps will go down a lot, nuke their healers and it's done.

    Why worry about the future when you can just asfatatotl.

  3. #3

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    dude, mass dispell bubble maybe? and keep one of the healers on the tremor mashing it down.. and focus a healer.. but u really need a ms effect as it's pure win!

  4. #4

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    I'll be honest, having a MS is pretty nice. That said, your hunter should have it on Aimed shot. The shamen has to die first...those totems are hell. And, as soon as the shamen dies, you can fear bomb pretty regularly.

    1. People need to get in the mindset of surviving. Frost novas, frost traps, sheeps, banishes, hexes, fears...all of these need to be used to survive switches.

    2. Interrupts are better than CC, mages should have focus macros to CS heals, druids to chain cyclone healers.

    3. Pets have 50k health...they die like nothing, may be worth your time.

    4. Don't use AE's like WW, heart strikes, thunderclaps and thing that breaks CCs....BUT Warrior Demo shout is awsome.

    5. CoT on casters is just awsome.

    This is all part of a pvp mindset, most importantly...this fight is only really hard in the first few minutes. After downing a couple gets really easy.

    When you shoop da whoop, you feel powerful and don't want to lose it, and then a guy in plate armor comes and turns your woop against the shoop, hence, making you got laz0red.

    Guild No Quarter -

  5. #5

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    My 10man had similar issues. They wiped the floor with us for 3-4 tries. We had trouble surviving so we kept devoting more resources to staying alive. For example we started with 3 healers and at one point had 4 healers and our DK focused on keeping the warrior slowed and away from our squishies.

    However, the strat that ended up working for us was the opposite. We zerged. We changed to 2 healers and all dps focused (no more dedicated DK slowing the warrior). Our lock, mage, and boomkin had individual cc targets and all dps/survival cooldowns were used right at the start. The first healer dropped in about 30 sec even with the bop, the second healer very soon after that.

    Your ranged and casters all need to spread out to avoid cleaves. Also, aoe slows (frost trap, earthbind totem, etc) are amazing for kiting the melee.

    Your healers should hold nothing back for the first minute. Blow all cooldowns to keep your raid up, as that should be enough time to zerg their healers. After they're both down ccs are much more effective (way less dispelling) and your raid's damage done isnt healed. With both enemy healers down just remove the MS effect enemies first so your healers won't have issues keeping people up.

  6. #6

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    In the 10man group my guild did we had a Resto Druid (omg the worst) that we killed first, then the Rogue (just nasty at locking down our casters) and finally the second healer (Priest) and after that lol the rest dropped.

    We used a similar strategy in the 25man: again had a Resto Druid we took down first, then the Rogue (oh and we had MS on the Rogue), the second healer followed and then downed the rest of the group (I think there may have been a Resto Shaman too who we CCd during the Druid/Rogue burst).

    Healers should die first really like in PvP and be prepared for Mass Dispel (bring a Priest IMO for sure). Fear random DPS and interrupt when possible on the healers until dead.

    It's a mess and hectic but is a BLAST! =D Having no tank/aggro table is just hilarious and an enjoyable change of pace.

  7. #7

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    Have a lock get a succubus and the other a felhunter.

    Your prot pally has decent silences/interrupts.

    Your hunter should used aimed shot for the MS debuff.

    You have 3 polymorph dispels - Pally/Priest/Fel hunter

    Ice trap the warrior and seduce the mage. Bloodlust/heroism and burn the shaman down, those totems are annoying and you can make it where they can't bloodlust/heroism. Have your prot paly save his AS and HoJ for interrupts on the shaman. Have the felhunter spell lock the holy pally and devour magic if the mage happens to get loose. CoT the pally as well and have your resto shaman make a focus target macro to shock if he tries to heal. Also CoT the resto shaman so that way it's easier to interrupt as well.

    Kill the Mage 2nd while your resto druid spam cyclones the DK and don't forget to have your hunter trap the warrior every CD. Wyvern sting if he has it. During this time, your prot pally is on the holy pally interrupting as much as possible with your resto shaman.

    Next kill the holy pally and mass dispel if he tries to bubble. During this time your lock should be spamming seduce on the DK and have your resto druid spam cyclone afterwards, then root.

    From here it's way too easy. Just DPS everything else down and have your dps just CC whatever looks loose. You have Seduce/Fear which suffer the same DR. But you also have Cyclone(banish)/HoJ(stun)/Entangling Roots(Root)/Icetrap(incapacitate)/Hex(polymorph) which all share different DRs. So pretty much the dk is doing nothing the whole fight and the warrior barely doing much.

  8. #8

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    For our 10 man ToC over the weekend we didnt have an MS warrior/rogue or even a warlock. We just zerged down the tree while interupting/palastunning the shaman as much as poss. Then nuked down the shaman swiftly followed by the ret pala. Then just continued to mow down the most annoying adds starting with the warlock.

    It did take us a few attempts seen as we had next to no CC but it went to prove that you dont have to have a perfect make up to down that event.

    This was our make up :-

    x3 ret palas
    x2 dk's (1frost dw/1blood)
    x2 holy priest
    x1 resto shaman
    x1 mage
    x1 elemental shaman

    npc's :- ( i think thats what we had, cant completely remember)

    shadow priest
    resto shaman
    ret paladin
    resto druid
    arms warrior

  9. #9

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    seriously, pretty much hardest fight i was on for a long time,

    last week we pushed through it pretty fast, maybe had easy opponents or slightly stronger/better classes grp

    this week we got: resto druid, disci priest(penancing), shaman, rogue, mage and lock .... i think thats one of the hardest possible comps :/

    druid hoting everything that moves, priest renew on all and flash like mad, shaman and his totems + heroism/bloodlust, rogue and lock making awesome dps and last but not least sheeping and slowing mage..

    we had on our side: holy pri, 2 resto shamans, pal prot/retri, dk blood, 2 locks, hunter, rogue and warr .... and we couldnt beat them, tried many tacts, cc, full nuke, half nuke, half cc, whatever
    our priest was dying pretty much fast, so mass dispell wasnt really there >.<
    we just couldnt take more than 1 healer (tried with druid or priest as first) before most of out ppl were dead, started with bloodlust, burning all cd's ... just impossible,

    sucks to not being able to get to valkyrs :/

  10. #10

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    One of the problems can be solved by telling both your tanks to stay in tank spec.

    Although the mobs switch often, they are NOT taunt immune. When taunted, they will stick to the tank for 5-8 seconds.

    Sticking both your tanks on the melee will prevent them from eating the faces of your clothies. At every switch, taunt. After the third taunt, have them use their stun on their mob when it switches again. DR on taunts should have worn off by the time the stun is over.

    Have both locks curse of tongues the healers, one lock to each healer.

    Burn the shaman first, have focus macros set up so that your enh shaman, hunter, shadowpriest, and warlocks with felpuppies out can set up an interupt/silence rotation on the paladin, keeping it from ever casting holy light. Flash of light is negligible. Make sure your shaman purges their earth shield, and their BoP when the pally casts it.

    With the gib factor out of the way by tanking their melee, and one healer locked down, the shaman should go down eventually without you taking losses. from there, see what you need to kill next while keeping up the silencelock on the pally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chin
    Garrosh would wage war against the ocean for not being made out of orcs.

  11. #11

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    wow, our 10 man group is having some serious trouble.
    first I thought this boss is completely impossible to do without everyone in arena gear, but now reading all of your comments and talking with people that have done it, I jsut have to say our dps must have sucked donkey balls

    ( faction champions comp: [healer]druid, [healer]shaman, [range]Spriest, [range]warlock, [melee]ret, [melee]warrior)

    We had 3 healers, and the two tanks switched to dps, first we tried to burst down the resto druid, which was like impossible, because he healed back soo much, and our dps was slowly one by one dying,
    the ret pally and warrior killed a clothy dps immediately, then went on our mage, so he was kiting, frosting, sheeping,.. doing no dmg, the rest was constantly feared without having a trinket -.-
    so what it looked like was, out of 7 dps, 1 dead, 1 busy the whole fight, 1 cc'd that leaves 4 dps on the resto druid, out of which 2 are our maintanks, in honor pvp gear,
    there was just no way we could have "bursted" one healer down

    at least I'm proud of figuring out a way to pull:
    Warrior charges in and aoe fear ;p,

  12. #12

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    Quote Originally Posted by zawish
    druid hoting everything that moves, priest renew on all and flash like mad,
    how about killing them first so they dont hot anything?

  13. #13

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    Highly doubt a soft reset will work, but worth a try. Still, it does balance it somewhat to make sure there is a mix of classes and specs opposing you, so it should be relatively consistent.

    The only one that caused us trouble really was the warrior because his whirlwind hits like a truck. There are a few ways you can approach this in 10 man. In general, you can either burn the healers first and cc the melee, or cc the healers and burn the melee first. The melee (warrior at least) seem to be the much harder hitters, which is why you can 'ignore' the ranged as annoying as they might be while you burn em down. But really, 400k is very generous, even if they are getting a heal or two off. You can easily take one down in 15 to 20 seconds. Burn bloodlust pretty much a few seconds after pull, keep the proper targets cc'd and you'll be fine.

    It depends on what your group comp/cc is but find the classes that give you the most trouble (this will take a couple weeks) and work out a way to manage them. Also, avoid stacking up as a group, as thats a really bad idea with things like whirlwind.

  14. #14

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    you can push both healers on 70-60% HP use BL, CC 1 healer or interrupt and kill another... pet's can handle totems
    and everyone, use pvp spec, not pve =(
    resilience doesnt work, but some abilities can help. as mage i can DB, poly, counterspell, blast wave enemy healer, and felhunter can help me with interrupt... just little more timing

  15. #15
    Dreadlord Aerikaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Surface of the Sun

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    Last night we actually plowed through faction champs with very little if any CC.&#160; Our raid:

    Prot Paly(BE)
    Prot War(tauren)
    Fury War(tauren)
    Combat Rog(BE)
    Disc Priest
    Holy Priest
    Resto Druid
    Fire Mage
    Enh Sham(tauren)
    Blood DK(BE)

    The faction champs
    Holy Priest
    Holy Paly
    Enh Sham

    Prot war charges holy paly and keeps her interrupted.&#160; I tag the rog and sham with Avengers shield.&#160; Everyone else was burning down the priest.&#160; Only CC we used for this phase were the Tauren stomps, our BEs were rotating torrent when possible, and the rogue spammed FoK for interrupts.&#160; Priest was down within 20seconds.
    Focused down the Holy Paly next, with the prot warrior helping me control the shaman and rogue.&#160; After that, piece of cake, burned the rogue>shaman>mage>boomkin.
    Btw, this was a PuG.&#160; You should be able to pull off the same results.&#160; Just burn down the shaman first, keep the Holy Paly interrupted and you should be golden.
    Only 2 things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe - Albert Einstein

  16. #16

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    What you've got to realize, imo, is that CCs are not just :
    - sheep
    - cyclone
    - root
    - fear

    Try and use all of your abilities, some that come to my mind :
    - Snares (frost shock, earthbind totem, frost trap, curse of exhaustion)
    - Ban (resto druid / lock pet)
    - Death coil
    - Disarm (not a CC but drastically reduces damage done by melees)
    - Curse of tongues (same for the casters)
    - etc...

    As a rule of thumb, we usually find out that both the healers and the magic dispellers are fucking us up. What we usually do is :
    - #1 focus a healer while a rogue or prot warrior chain interrupts the other healer
    - #2 switch to ret pal or shadow priest or both
    - #3 at that point you're left with one healer and 0 magic dispellers, your magic CCs will be long enough to take a breath, chose whatever you want to focus !
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark
    I dont know why everyone expects thing to be rebuilt after a cataclysm. Last time i checked, earthquakes dont fix roofs.

  17. #17

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    well we had some problems with faction champions too ...

    raid setup was
    port pally/ret for champs
    feral druid
    holy pally
    resto shaman
    2 locks dunno specs but no matter
    arms warrior

    champs setup was:
    resto druid
    holy pally
    enh shaman
    shadow priest
    SV hunter (explosive shot)

    first tries we started out with ccing he pally and priest ... but since the ccs didn't come at the same time they got displeed in the same time they were put on ...

    what we did in the end was our warrior chared into them and popped intimidating shout to scatter the pack so we could "safely" put our ccs on

    then nuked the restor druid, kept pally in cc ofc after he bubbled out of fear -.- got no preist as you see but warriors ae also good for bubble breaking :>

    after druid we zerged the shadow (lowest hp) then pally and arfterwards somehow zerged the rest

    oh right after charge/fear combo our shaman popped bloodlust

    to lighten the preassure of the healer first the holy pally and after that the ret paly used DS/DS

    well ne last note ... if the melees (NPCs) are heading for some squishy chloties a taunt can save their lives for some seconds ... most of the time it's enough for the clothie to run away
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  18. #18

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    If you are having problems with people dying, you should check your recount and look at the damage taken. Then figure out which of the NPCs are doing a lot of damage. Yesterday we had a Ret Paladin and the Warlock dealing a load of damage. The Rogue and Boomkin barely did anything, which was not what we expected to see at all. So we did the following:

    = Pop heroism and cooldowns to nuke down a healer, holy priest for us.
    = 2nd target we nuked the warlock, he does a lot of damage and spams annoying curses, besides he has low armor and lower health.
    = 3rd we took the ret paladin, after which it was easy and we had the rogue, resto shaman and balance druid left.
    = Our warlock was mass fearing and dot'ing. Our warrior stayed prot and all he did was annoy the ret paladin, disarm/stun/slow/taunt/fear/etc, he also kept an eye out for the rogue. We had our paladin mass cleansing and casting short heals, 1 resto shaman was just healing, other resto shaman was mass spamming purge on the first and 2nd target.
    = You may want to put someone to disable the 2nd healer you get, we just figured out the resto shaman wasn't doing much at all. He was interrupting casts, using his totems and frogging people, but didn't see many big heals.

    Other people have already said it, it's all about staying alive. Shamans need to use resistance/slow/grounding/cleansing totems instead of their usual, hunters need to use slowing traps, everyone needs to use stuns, disarms and use every kind of debuff there is.

  19. #19

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    Your hunter definitely needs to get involved in the CC efforts. Use freezing arrow to trap any 'problem' champions. It doesn't have to be strictly planned out. Have him freeze anything sticking on healers or any caster champions not getting attention. It helps A LOT.

    Also, convince him to go MM and disarm the pally/warr. It's once per minute but it is a 10 second disarm.

  20. #20
    The Patient Leafre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Pécs, Hungary

    Re: Faction Champions tough comp

    Faction Champions are the most interesting encounter so far in ToC. Last week we just used a nuke down a healer with BL tactic, then finish off the second, then the dpses. This week this tactic did not work.

    Faction Champions setup was:
    Discipline Priest, Resto Shaman, Retribution Paladin, Subtlety Rogue, Destruction Warlock, Balance Druid

    Our final setup was:
    Protection Warrior, 2x Feral DPS Druid, Fire Mage, Frostfire Mage, Fury Warrior with heal reduction, Elemental Shaman, Resto Shaman, Holy Priest, Holy Paladin

    We faced way too many cc's (Blind, Cyclone, Repentance, Root, Hammer, Hex) and too much raidwide damage (Hellfire, Divine Storm, during BL) to make the counter with only 2 healers. We changed one of our clothie for another healer, so we had the mentioned line-up.

    Our first tactic was to kill the Priest first, then the lock puppy, and 3rd, the Shammy. Didn't work well. We passed the two healers several times, but people were dying because of AoE's. So I've chaned my mind, and decided to kill the Paladin first. While the DPS'es were focusing on the Pally, our Prot Warrior was trying to stun/chargelock the Rogue as much as possible. Myself was taking care about the Priest, by Charge/Bash, 3x Cyclone, Maim locking her. That was enough time to finish off the Pally. So we moved to the Priest, and the Shammy after. Worked out very well. The raid damage was much lower then before and we did not lose anybody after killing the Pally first.
    I am a Leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

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