The direction of the shadow priest

[Strykzor]

The direction of the shadow priest

Bottomless pit.

[Firegod1385]

Also some of us raid for the challenge, which means we try to do the harder content. If you're just running uld-10 normal then any class is fine, but when you get to hard modes it tightens up.

On hard modes I couldn't justify taking a 3k dps if the average was 4k, never mind if the average was 5. The game is balanced around the current hardest content, not stuff that's easy.

Fair enough, I was a bit misinformed it seems. I didnt think spriests were as far behind as they are. Which no, doesnt matter in normals, but hardmodes, I can see it being pretty essential. Especially when there are posts of players (like Nezoia) being sidelined when they are doing the best of THEIR abilities, however, their class is the one holding them back from doing more.

When you are 3k dps (like in Raunyc's example) behind the top person, and 800 behind the NEXT person in the list, I understand more-so there is a huge problem somewhere. and as others have mentioned, its probably mostly due ot the scaling issues SPriests have.

[gaymer77]

Honestly I would rather see mindblast have no CD than see another spell added in the game to be our nuke in Cata. That would add so much for our single target dps and give us that viable nuke that can produce a high number that all other classes that have a dot can do. Locks have multiple no CD spells and their dots that do dmg. Mages are the same way. Count in druids too. Shaman have a CD on lava burst that equals our mindblast but they also have their flame shock dot, lightning bolt, and all those damn overload procs make them not have to have this insanely high dmg dealing nuke that's off CD.

[Firegod1385]

Honestly I would rather see mindblast have no CD than see another spell added in the game to be our nuke in Cata. That would add so much for our single target dps and give us that viable nuke that can produce a high number that all other classes that have a dot can do. Locks have multiple no CD spells and their dots that do dmg. Mages are the same way. Count in druids too. Shaman have a CD on lava burst that equals our mindblast but they also have their flame shock dot, lightning bolt, and all those damn overload procs make them not have to have this insanely high dmg dealing nuke that's off CD.

Locks only have 1 skill that has no cooldown that they'd 'spam' and thats Incenerate. As they only have 4 skills (5 if you count CoElements or CoDoom - its a dps loss to use agony / corruption, i believe) Immolate, Incinerate, Chaos Bolt, Conflagarate. :P

But yeah, all of the OTHER casters have skills off of CD that scale really well, and are usually their #1 damage dealer.

I wouldn't mind to see another nuke for shadowpriests, I just find it hard to see what they would implement that wouldnt
1) Completely destroy the point of Mind Flay
2) Have Mind blast worth casting at all

[gaymer77]

Locks only have 1 skill that has no cooldown that they'd 'spam' and thats Incenerate. As they only have 4 skills (5 if you count CoElements or CoDoom - its a dps loss to use agony / corruption, i believe) Immolate, Incinerate, Chaos Bolt, Conflagarate. :P

Last time I checked warlocks still had the choice of shadowbolt which has no CD and is a nuke. Whether they use it or not is besides the point. The point is they have multiple nukes just like a mage. Just like a druid. Just like a shaman.

[Firegod1385]

Ehh... Thats like saying:

"Spriests have the choice of smite, which as no CD and is a nuke. Whether or not they use it is beside the point. The point is they have multiple nukes like a mage. Just like a druid. Just like a shaman"

Which, as you know, would be completely idiotic of me to say. It does, however, apply to warlocks the all the same. Shadowbolt to a destro spec is completey worthless (check their talents, its all +fire damage)

Not to discredit your general point, but that point in particular is slightly off.

(On a side note: Destro locks are in a significantly better position than Spriests at the moment. So that point could be skipped really. I just hate seeing misinformation - wasnt flaming or anything, just keeping everyones facts straight)

[gaymer77]

When I said that locks have shadowbolts it was in reference to them being able to switch to shadow spells if they are infact locked out of a school of magic (fire) and a good chunk of the cookie cutter fire destro talents pertain to shadow spells as well. Pyroclasm, soul leech, backlash, devastation, intensity, destructive reach, ruin, cataclysm, and bane all benefit shadow spells & are part of the cookie cutter fire destro build that nearly all locks are for endgame raiding. Warlocks have zero penalty to switch to another school of magic. Supression (if they actually pick it up) is for all spells not just fire or shadow or destruction or affliction spells.They lose no hit rating from talents to switch to shadow instead of a fire spell as Shadow priests on the other hand have to drop out of shadow form, immediately lose 3% hit because shadow focus only applies to shadow spells, and then waste 1100-1300 mana just to go back into shadow form OR we have to wait the 6 seconds for the lockout to be over every time we get counterspelled.

My statement was not misinformation but factual.

[Haxxer]

I must say, I tested on a dummy before. First, I left my MB out of the priority list and just spammed MF between the Dots refreshes, then I tested using MB as well. Guess what?

Almost the same DPS! I got somewhere between 3.3-3.4k with only MF and 3.2-3.5k unstable on the the second attempt.

WTB Better scaling!

Armory:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...n=Dottymcblast

[Peppercat]

You're going to get near the same dps, as we can fit one Mf in the cast time of MB (if you're at the haste soft cap and take into consideration the cast time of MB and the CD, while using MF the CD is refreshed as channeling.) and they do roughly the same amount of damage.

What I can offer to help with some serious end game raiding, as in Hardmodes, MB isn't particularly as important here. I've found a lot of success just keeping up dots and using MF. I am going to say however this method will most likely not work with gear towards burst damage; but if you have pushing 3k SP raide buffed and over 450 haste I would give it a whirl.

But yes, I think we don't scale as well as other casters based on the mechanics of our class, however, I will say looking at parses of top guilds and other end game shadow priests, our Dps may not be comparable with mages, but if you put a Spriest and an Arcane mage with the same gear level, near same skill, and dps uptime; you'll find the Shadowpriest will come out on top when we look at DD.

Just my two cents.

<3Pepper

[Raunyc]

Pepper, same level gear at what tier?

As we're moving into t9 now, arcane mages have blown past us for sustained dps, not to mention the change to AB they're getting (or got dunno which atm) is going to improve their sustained...

We are falling severely behind, sustained dps or damage done.

[TwistedPower]

Dispersion should remove all physical and slowing/immobleizing effects on you. You are a ball of gass its stupid that it doesnt. And it is needed in pvp. Clearing the MS effect especially is needed. Iceblock even if it gets dispelled anyways clears this and allows for big burst heals. Its also realy stupid to use dispersion and not be able to get healed durring its duration becuase of MS.

This is one thing that I feel Shadow needs for PvP.

As for raiding I think that they should add in a talent that every time your mindblast crits, the next tick of all your dots will crit. This will bring mindblast back in, like the peppercat said in certain fights mindblast is not always somthing you want to cast.

[Ondarak]

I agree with the OP, i was just the same and it caused me to stop playing caus ei could no longer do what i used to be able to. I was able to pull 3k easy on a target dummy with my gear then all of a sudden couldnt any more, i spent hours upon hours trying to fix it only to find out that i couldnt change it

[Sersick]

dots scaling with haste and something to make sw:d a useful part of our rotation again would really help our single target, maybe a similar effect like backdraft after you sw:d or your next X amount of dot ticks do more damage

VE/MB are 1.5 away from being able to be cast. Instead of mind flay, SW?

[Abandon]

VE/MB are 1.5 away from being able to be cast. Instead of mind flay, SW?

Does less damage than if you had just used Mind Flay and clipped it. When people say they want it to be a useful part of our rotation, they mean they want casting it to actually be worth doing, instead of it always being a DPS loss when you cast it.

[Peppercat]

Pepper, same level gear at what tier?

As we're moving into t9 now, arcane mages have blown past us for sustained dps, not to mention the change to AB they're getting (or got dunno which atm) is going to improve their sustained...

We are falling severely behind, sustained dps or damage done.

I don't have a problem with competeing on a damage done level with our other casters, especially going into T9. Do I think we scale as well, absolutely not; but I wouldn't say that they are blowing past us. A lot of our success has to do with really knowing the class, raid comp, and understanding how to gear. We're not completely useless as we bring a lot of utility beyond just replenishment (even if it is menial) In my opinion we bring our survivability to the raid, and it benefits more than just ourselves. A smart healer is going to understand and know that if something terrible happens to the raid, we are last priority mainly because we will most likely be taking less damage and if geared decently, can gen most of that back through dps after a good recovery. An example situation is Freya, on the 'Nature's Fury' debuff, if the shadow priest is smart and positions quickly, you can negate the de-buff through your own damage, and not have to stress the healers out if the raid gets in a tight situation like, having adds blown up or a bear tank not dodging consecutively and needing a little more attention from the healers. All in all I think we are a very independant class when it comes to survivability; I think thats the direction we get pushed into, and thats probably where we'll stay.

[Direshadow]

In every fight I've been in, I've been in the top 10 DPS in the raid. Pure classes are ALWAYS ahead of me, but I'm always right behind them. I will agree that I think we do need to be boosted in some way or another. Blizzard has told us that we need to be less reliant on our dots to be the bulk of our damage, and I believe they will address this in Cataclysm.

If they don't buff our damage, they should at least buff Vampiric Embrace so that it's actually useful in a raid setting.


Either way, we're fine. Not amazing. Just fine.


I'm far more concerned about our future in PVP. We're struggling enough as it is, and unlike other classes, an extra five talent points is not going to give us anything special.

[Raunyc]

In 25 man Ulduar, I generally run in 10th place... That doesn't bother me too much, except when I look at the people passing me... Usually they're in significantly less gear than me, that's what makes me come to the forums and start bitching...

You can be the most geared char in your guild, and still someone in lower tier can out dps you... If we were on the same scaling, this wouldn't be true.

Biggest issue for me is that look what a Boomkin brings to raid, our 3% hit, 13% magic damage, 5% crit aura, and 3% haste aura... SPriest used to be about utility, now we're just lacking completely in that area, and I don't count VE in it's current state as raid utility, it is strictly self healing in my eyes due to how little it affects party members(I'll make the exception here for fights where there's raid damage and a damage buff, like Hodir)...

[TwistedPower]

Our shadow priests are not in last place.

[gaymer77]

In 25 man Ulduar, I generally run in 10th place... That doesn't bother me too much, except when I look at the people passing me... Usually they're in significantly less gear than me, that's what makes me come to the forums and start bitching...

Our shadow priests are not in last place.

Wait until both of your guilds have their mages & locks & druids in full Ulduar gear and hardmode loot and then you'll see where shadow priests are on those meters.

[Raunyc]

That's the trouble Gaymer, the majority of people arguing that SPriests are fine are in mid-ulduar content (majority of guilds are here atm) with some minor ToC gear thrown in...

I'm fully ulduar 25 geared (some hard modes and some hard mode 10m, Algalon down), and HToC 10m +ToC 25m...